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Author Topic: Harry Potter - satanic or superb?  (Read 16412 times)
Royo
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2003, 01:37:40 AM »

Sapphire W34PON: the scripture you were looking for is;
"Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." [Matt. 15.11]. I know, I used to use this long ago to justify my smoking cigs. I was so wrong.
As for the Harry Potter books, I agree with Ambassdor4Christ.
Great toilet paper.
No, I have not read them. But then I do not need to go look at child porn to know it is evil also.
These books are not from God, nor do they bring glory to God.
And if they are not of God, then they are of the world.
"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." [1 John 2.15].
When we are not willing to let go of the ways of the world, we will always find a way to justify it to ourself and others.
We either live our life for He who died for us, or for self. We cannot serve 2 masters.
Sorry if some do not want to hear this truth, but I am only commanded to give the truth, not make anyone obey the truth. I can lead you to the water of truth, but I cannot make you drink it. That choice is yours. I know, I have been there.
Your brother in Christ. Roy.
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Corpus
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2003, 08:09:02 AM »

Royo.

Two questions:

Exactly what must a piece of literature 'do' to be "of God?"

Do you believe the fictional works of Lewis and Tolkien are therefore not "of God" as well?
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Royo
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2003, 01:13:21 PM »

For a writing to be 'of God' means that it was inspired by God, not by man. Man may have written it, but it was inspired by God the Holy Spirit. Also, any writing must help us or teach us spiritually in some way. If not, then it is just something that feeds the pleasure of the flesh. I am not saying that makes it satanic, but worldly.
As for fictional books, there are many that are both enjoyable and spiritually uplifting or instructional. Like Pilgrim's Progress, and many others. Dee Henderson is also a good example of a book that is quite enjoyable, yet uplifts the soul spiritually and teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ.
I just cannot imagine Jesus reading Harry Potter and saying,
"wow, good book."
These are just my thoughts and feelings; we each must determine if what we are reading is for the pleasure of the flesh, or for spiritual uplifting. And it is not just books; it is also T.V., movies, and all other forms of "entertainment".
Is it to feed the desires of the flesh, or for spiritual enlightenmment and uplifting?
Jesus did not die so we all could have a good time, but so that we might have a relationship with God our Father.
Again, this is how I read the Word of God, and what it tells me about how we are to live our life in this world.
Your brother in Christ. Roy.
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Tibby
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2003, 04:04:32 PM »

And you deside what is god-inspired? Without even reading the book, you can proclaim it worldly?

The internet?
smiley?
a computer?
Cars?
Planes?
The English language?

Are these things god-inspired or man-made? Prove it one way or the other, if you even can.
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Sapphire W34P0N
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2003, 04:37:37 PM »

The Harry Potter books' main focus is not witchcraft or anything 'worldly;' rather, they are about friendship, bravery, personal sacrafice, overcoming evil, among other uplifting aspects. Sure, there are points in the books that may be considered quite the opposite of the above, but the books do not in any way encourage THAT kind of behavior.

Honestly, it is not hard or wrong to pick up a book and read it for informational purposes so you can form your own opinion. I don't see why people are so against something they've never even read...

It is not against anything to read the Koran to better understand the Muslim religion. Why can't the Harry Potter books be looked at the same way?

Something else caught my eye...

I just cannot imagine Jesus reading Harry Potter and saying,
"wow, good book."


And you know the mind of God, how...?

Take a look at your own profile, Royo. "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore, get wisdom: and with all thy getting, get understanding (Proverbs 4:7)." Seems like a good idea to me...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 04:42:19 PM by Sapphire W34P0N » Logged
Corpus
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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2003, 04:42:45 PM »

Royo,

I can and do respect your position. It actually is akin to what many monastics do to bring themselves closer to God. Which isn't to say they dismiss such literature as of no value, but have only an interest in those materials more explicitly Christian.

Where I take issue however is requiring literature (if I understand you correctly) to in fact BE explicitly Christian. You must realize that the likes of Tolkien and Lewis are so effective because their works deal with the concept of right and wrong/good and evil in very explicit terms, and Christianity only implicitly. This isn't because they lacked respect for their own faith, but because they realized that literature possessed of a moral imagination cannot 'preach the faith' as it were. It must first seize the readers imagination and infuse it with a sense of awe and wonder.

The Bible is THE sacred text, and as such deserves our utmost reverence. But as a piece of literature, it simply isn't the most entertaining. And any story, even one as remarkable as that of our savior's, doesn't have an undieing appeal to be re-read every day with the same imaginative joy.

Harry Potters' appeal is that it deals with good and evil, right and wrong, and contrasts them starkly. There are virtues espoused consistently in the story. The books inspire as imaginative literature of a moral character is supposed to...as Tolkien's did, and as Lewis' did.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2003, 04:54:06 PM by Corpus » Logged
Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2003, 04:52:07 PM »

Harry Potter and his "magick" is just the thing that millions of spiritually bankrupt people are looking for. It is also exactly what Satan has so neatly constructed to deceive, trap and detour those millions into his awaiting Hell.
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2003, 04:55:39 PM »

Why are so many spirit-filled people reading and enjoying it then?
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2003, 05:02:45 PM »

Eric Barger's Three Arguments
Against Harry Potter


1) Overt Occult Endorsement or "Harmless" Fantasy?

There is great controversy concerning the magic and occult trappings used in the Potter series. Defenders say "its just fantasy" while savvy observers maintain that the positive promotion of witchcraft and sorcery in today's TV, cartoons, motion pictures, books, music and the like represent occult practices as an acceptable lifestyle to many.

Eric Barger believes that through the often subtle and occasionally overt occult practices carried out by characters in J.K. Rowling's series, there is a general dulling of the conscience concerning the occult. Through exposure and acceptance, readers slowly begin to view the occult in a favorable light, abandoning any thought about the very real and present danger that interaction with the occult realm can and does bring.

FANTASY?

Though we are told repeatedly that Potter represents only "fantasy", shouldn't concerned parents question just what kind of fantasy we want entering our children's minds?

USA Today said the Potter story line included; "...a disembodied voice repeatedly hissing ‘kill’; monstrous, flesh-eating spiders; children being attacked and paralyzed; and an apparently dead cat hung upside down by its tail." (USA Today, June 15, 2000)

WITCHES LOVE HARRY!

Practicing witches view the Potter books as their ticket to acceptability and respectability.

"For once, the witches aren’t ugly old hags," said Michael Darnell, 39, a computer programmer from Winnipeg, Canada, who has been a practicing witch for over twenty-five years. "For once they’re the protagonists rather than the villains." (USA Today, May 30, 2000)

abcNEWS.com interview, practicing Wiccan (witch) Phyllis Curott who says:

"Sure, you are seeing witches in Harry Potter do things they don’t do in real life. But it is positive. They are friendly. They are good. The book might change the way people feel about us."

But Barger contends that the Potter characters actually do emulate witchcraft in real life. Barger states, "The fact that witches can't always connect when casting a spell isn't a problem for J.K. Rowling. She endorses any and every occult practice from the underworld to envelop her story line. The Potter series is a complete candy store selling occultism to our kids as an acceptable lifestyle and means of living."

SO, IS THE MAGIC REAL?

But is the magic real? Warner Brothers, who has bet the bank on the Potter films, says yes!

"Warner Bros claims the film is an accurate portrayal of things that happen in witchcraft…"

We presume they have inadvertently let the real cat out of the bag with this assertion.

2) Endorsement of Moral Relativism

Harry Potter is the poster child for relative ethics and morals. That is the "good" characters employ the same principles, standards and techniques as the "evil" characters including:

Virtually every conceivable Occult teaching and practice
Drunkenness
Cursing
Lying/Dishonesty/Revenge
Relative standards for Ethics, Morals and Integrity
Remember, we are referring to the good characters.

Forget the occultism for a moment! Isn't a hero like Harry Potter lying to get his way and his cohorts being drunk enough to nix him from any list of possible role models for our youth? That's what readers get as the Potter story progresses from book to book.

And true to what she has said, Rowling has made the story progressively darker during the first four books. She states that she will continue to do so through the seventh book as well.

3) The Separation of Church and State

What in the world is going on here? The A.C.L.U. has called the phrase "God Bless America" a "hurtful divisive message" and has called for school districts nationwide to cease displaying it on public property! Halloween, witchcraft's number one holiday (the fall solstice), is heralded without question in classrooms far and wide. No thought is ever given as to the actual basis for all the trappings of this occult holiday. And concerning Harry Potter, children in many grade levels across our country are being ostracized, ridiculed and even suspended from school if they dare refuse to read the Potter books which are often given as mandatory assignments!

Has anyone noticed the Bible being used in mandatory public classroom settings recently? If not, how can Potter books - which endorse the bonafide religion of witchcraft and that make a mockery of anyone daring question witchcraft's viability as a lifestyle - be doled out in our public schools? Again, we ask - WHAT IS WRONG HERE?
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« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2003, 05:06:57 PM »

That is the same argument they use to prove Cartoon violence is wrong. Yeah, Harry Potter endorses Witch Craft like Elmer Fud endorses School shootings.
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2003, 05:11:43 PM »

That is the same argument they use to prove Cartoon violence is wrong. Yeah, Harry Potter endorses Witch Craft like Elmer Fud endorses School shootings.

LOL Grin
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Corpus
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« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2003, 05:23:33 PM »

This only demonstrates that those who demonize Harry Potter must also demonize the works of Tolkien and Lewis. Maybe you feel they're also corrupting, but for goodness sake admit as much so the full train of your logic can reach a conclusion and I can respond appropriately.

Otherwise, please explain to me how they're different.

The bit about wiccans drawing inspiration is entirely moot by the way. Accordingly it would mean that when people twist passages from scripture to justify immorality, that scripture and God are responsible.
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Royo
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2003, 06:09:33 PM »

Thank you Ambassador4Christ.
I was not able to put it well as you have.
My thoughts and feelings about the Potter books are just that, my thoughts and feelings. I ask no one to agree with them. You make your own choices. That is between you and God.
I live according to what I BELIEVE my Father has shown me.
You are free to do the same. I would not tell someone else how they must honor the One who died for them. But I do share my thoughts on the subject. If anyone does not agree, that is fine.
You say I and others 'demonize' Harry Potter. My goodness, you speak as if he is a real person that I am demonizing. I share my thoughts and beliefs, and you accuse me of demonizing some fictional character. I have to wonder why you find it so important to defend this evil work.
Be that as it may, if you want to read them, by all means do so. You don't need my approval.
Roy.
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Corpus
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« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2003, 12:13:47 PM »

Royo,

My comments were directed primarily at A4C.

Quote
You say I and others 'demonize' Harry Potter. My goodness, you speak as if he is a real person that I am demonizing.

Nearly all critics are prone to imagine that they know a great many facts relevant to a book which in reality they don't know...There was a very good instance of this in the reviews of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Most critics assumed that it must be a political allegory and a good many thought that the master Ring must "be" the atomic bomb. Anyone who knew the real history of the composition knew that this was not only erroneous, but impossible; chronologically impossible...Now of course nobody blames the critics for not knowing these things: how should they? The trouble is that they don't know they don't know. A guess leaps into their minds and they write it down without even noticing that it is a guess.

C.S. Lewis
Of Other Worlds: Essays and Stories
"On Criticism"
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2003, 03:03:32 PM »

Royo.

Two questions:

Exactly what must a piece of literature 'do' to be "of God?"

Do you believe the fictional works of Lewis and Tolkien are therefore not "of God" as well?

C.S. LEWIS: FOR HIM THE BIBLE WAS A SHADOWY LAND

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