Against Idolatry

[dp]

Every believer on The Savior Jesus Christ should at least once read through God's vision given to Ezekiel in Ezekiel 8 about the abominations of false worship the leaders of the "house of Israel" were doing, in secret, behind closed doors.

Ezek 8:6-10
6   He said furthermore unto me, "Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from My sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations."
7   And He brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8   Then said He unto me, "Son of man, dig now in the wall:" and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9   And He said unto me, "Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here."
10   So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11   And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
(KJV)

Those "ancients of the house of Israel" represented the relgious leadership over Israel in that day. Note what they had fallen into. Is that kind of thing still going on among some reglious leaders today, even among Christianity? Yes, most definitely. Those now belong to secret fraternities like the Masons and Rosicrucians.

Members of secret orders like the Masonic Lodge and more mystical fraternities like the Rosicrucians will say that kind of thing in Ezekiel 8 God warned us about is not going on in their secret initiations behind closed doors, but the ancient pagan symbols they use in their ceremonies of initiation, and their references to teachings of the ancients reveal otherwise. We know of the good charitable work done by Masons, but that is an excellent front to hide the secret workings of such mystical orders. There are many secret and quasi-secret mystical fraternities in the world today, and orders like the Masons and Rosicrucians are simply jumping off platforms to join other ones. The Rosicrucian Order (AMORC) serves as a jumping off point to the Traditional Martinist Order, a mystical order founded by the French mystic Claude de St.Martin. The Martinists, or TMO, delve in mystical ceremonial worship and the Jewish Kabbalah system of occult mysticism.

Those mystical groups are the ones behind today's inter-faith movement, as they seek to join all the world's religions into one. This is why some Churches are now inviting practicioners from other religions into their Church, even allowing a show of those other religions right in front of the congregation! That working is what those religious leaders in Ezekiel's time were trying to do in God's Temple, joining all the pagan idolatry systems of their day in one place, in God's sanctuary.

Because of the liberal theologies taught by some Ministers in today's Churches, we should not be blind to this type of working today. No doubt many Christians are leaving those kind of Churches with leadership like that. Don't leave, boot 'em out using the authority our Lord Jesus gave us over all the power of the enemy (Luke 10). But before one can do that, they must do their 'homework' on this, per God's Word. One thing is sure, those kind of Churches with leaders that are suspect in this abomination are not going to teach you about this from God's Word.

In Christ Jesus,
dp

[nChrist]

Hello DP,

I've heard about all kinds of cults, especially recent ones. I've also done very limited study on some of the ancient cults. I know what the Bible says about the devil being able to deceive many, including some Christians, but I'm having a hard time understanding how the average Christian with a decent foundation in JESUS would buy some of this garbage.

I've also heard about various churches trying to do things together, but I suspect that what I know about is something fairly innocent. I'm talking about helping disaster victims, feeding people, etc. Yes, I've read several things about one-world orders and churches, but I'm still having a lot of trouble trying to understand how a real Christian would fall for some of the occult garbage that appears to be at the center of much that I've read about.

I do know that the devil is real, but I've always known that the GOD in my heart is much stronger than the devil. We've had people on the board who tried to teach the occult garbage, and we simply kicked them off the board. Most of us have probably been contacted in one way or another by somebody in the occult, and the visit was probably very short unless they were willing to listen to sermons about JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour. I dealt with many folks in police work who were involved in devil worship and the occult. There's no doubt in my mind that some of them were of the devil, but again, I always knew that the GOD in my heart was a million times stronger.

Please let me describe the problem I have in thinking about some of this stuff. The biggest problem I have is any mature Christian falling for the occult and devil garbage. So, I've considered that many things will happen more easily after the Rapture of the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. I know there are problems of all kinds in many churches, but I don't see the majority of them falling for the occult and devil garbage. There's a big difference between knowing there is a devil and following the devil. What I'm saying is that most of the Christians I know would loudly rebuke anyone trying to teach the devil and occult filth. Maybe I'm naive or thinking about churches in the area where I live, but I don't think that the devil can take the majority of the churches until the grounded and mature Christians are gone and out of the way. The devil's messenger might even get a fat lip and a bloody nose in my neck of the woods.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:1-2 NASB  Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

[Shammu]

The devil's messenger might even get a fat lip and a bloody nose in my neck of the woods.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:1-2 NASB  Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

AMEN brother AMEN!!

[dp]

Hello Tom,

This subject has a very strong Biblical warning for the latter days, through Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 where he said two things must occur first before our Lord's second coming. One is that there must be a great falling away (apostasy) from Christ, and the second is the "son of perdition" must be revealed. The Message of "another Jesus" of 2 Corinthians 11 is also linked with that, even as our Lord Jesus' warning about the "abomination of desolation" in Matthew 24 where He was teaching about a pseudo Christ coming first and that event might deceive the very elect, if it were possible.

Matt 24:21-26
21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22   And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23   Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there;" believe it not.
24   For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25   Behold, I have told you before.
26   Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)

The direct translation of the phrase "false Christs" in verse 24 is 'a pseudo Christ'. It is the Greek word pseudochristos, made up of two Greek words, pseudo and Christ. It is singular in the Greek, not plural. That only occurs in two places in God's Word, here and in Mark 13:22 with this same warning by our Lord Jesus. When our Lord Jesus said if they shall say, "Behold, He is in the desert", He was speaking of a specific false one that many will accept as The Christ, but that one will be false, a pseuodchristos. Jesus said for us to not fall to that false one, wrongly thinking it will be Him. The KJV translators even capitalized the "He" there because of the singular tense of that false one, and not in the sense of 'many Christ' wannabes. Jesus gave that in connection with the "abomination of desolation" standing where it ought not, in the Temple. Antiochus Epiphanes around 120 B.C. was the first blueprint of that as a type. And the Romans caused many of the Jews to fall to Baccus worship before general Titus destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem and Jerusalem itself, except for the wall that still stands today.

A group of orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are preparing to build a third Temple in our times today, and already have the materials ready to do it. Some Christian organizations have even sent funds to help them build it, and one company run by a Christian leader, named 'Jesus, Inc.' in Tennessee back in 1997 was sending red heifer cows to Jerusalem for their Levitical type sacrifices. Some Christian Churches see no problem in helping with that, because their false leadership is telling them it's alright. But to aid in that is to deny The One Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, Jesus Christ. Those orthodox Jews intend to bring back the Old Covenant ways and Levitical priesthood; they still do not recognize the New Covenant through our Lord Jesus. They still await Messiah, because they refuse the True Messiah Jesus Christ, so God is going to give them one, a false messiah (pseudochristos). The Roman general Titus who destroyed Jerusalem in 69 A.D. did not fit that role of a pseudochristos. None have done what Antiochus did in the Temple since then, and our Lord gave that prophecy after Antiochus had been long gone, thus meaning that prophecy of the "abomination of desolation" is still yet to be fulfilled. And that will be 'the Antichrist' fulfilling that. There is a group of orthodox Jews called the Land of Israel and Temple Mount Faithful who are the strongest movers in that direction to build another Temple in Jerusalem. They have a website up at...
http://www.templemountfaithful.org/

What does all that have to do with occult leadership in today's world? Well, who do they worship instead The Father through Christ Jesus? This is what the inter-faith religious movement is really about today, and it is slowly taking over some of our Christian Churches, because the plan is a one-world religion to include all faiths. That's what the World Council of Churches is all about. The world is being prepared to accept that false one in place of Jesus. Many will believe it is Jesus, when our Lord Jesus specifically said to believe it not there in Matthew 24 and in Mark 13, even giving the warning twice. The warning He gave in verse 24 above is very specific also, because that pseudochristos will work great signs and wonders so powerful that it might even deceive His "very elect", if it were possible. That tells us that false one is not going to be some ordinary limited mortal that can only claim to be Christ and do nothing else but talk sweet and look holy. Those great signs and wonders are a link to the one in Revelation 13:11 forward He also warned us about. As a matter of fact, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is covering the 7 seals of Revelation 6.

So how is it that many believers on The Savior will be dupped into that? It's because many do not understand how Christ's enemies work. In my previous post about false things going on in the lodges of secret fraternities, it's the high leadership in those orders that are connected in that. Most of the lower members don't really have a clue what they're into. How's that? Because they are sold the idea that those orders are benefactors to mankind, the concept of world brotherhood, peace, liberty, equality, etc. The symbols, rituals, etc., most of the lower members don't know their true history. The major concept behind all the secret fraternities is that of world peace, one world government, and peace and prosperity for all. The kind of thing you speak of about 'cults', are mostly independent groups that are way out on a limb, like the group in California that committed suicide back around the year 2000 because they thought the end had come, or like the Jim Jones cults and such. The real dangerous working are those higher ups in the secret societies who don't outwardly exhibit those 'cult' qualities you speak of, but most defnitely work for the devil. And that's part of our Lord's Message in the vision He gave in Ezekiel 8, for those leaders of Israel were doing their own thing behind closed doors, not in full view of the people.

You've got excellent examples in your Bible in Old Testament history of what authentic false occult worship is that is the seat of the beast. All the old systems of Baal worship are interconnected back to Babylon in some way, and before Christ came those systems of idol worship were also established in Europe. The majority in Europe converted to Christ Jesus, but some of the pagan converts were allowed to mix in some of their idol worship into Christianity (research Constantine and the early Church fathers). Even the apostle Paul fought that working early on among Gentile converts to Christ. And then some groups in Europe never did convert to Christ. Those families who didn't convert have been with us in the West all along. And as Christian families have been handing down Christian principles from generation to generation, the same thing has been going on with those families still in the Baal traditions of their forefathers.

So the reality of today is, many Christians are being taught it's OK to join in worship with other religions, and to even accept other faiths as other paths to God. Clearly someone strong in Christ is not going to fall for that. But all Christians, myself included, want peace on earth and for all of God's children to be cared for as fellow human beings. We want all wars to end, and each to have the right to prosperity and happiness. But the question I ask, is on who's terms do we want that? I only want it on Jesus' terms, and we are told in God's Word that is not going to happen without our Lord reiging in Person on earth as KING. That is the main ploy the secret societies are using with their lower membership, because they think they themselves are empowered to create that kind of condition here on earth in the now, without Christ being here in Person. And that's why there are even Christians involved in those secret societies, and why some Church traditions falsely teach that Jesus is already reiging on earth, or that He will never physically reign here on earth in Person! I was told by a Mason that at one time a petitioning member of a lodge in the West used to have be a Christian to join. What better way to single out those one intends to corrupt?

On the idea of the Global Church working, here's an interesting link, and it's by one of our fellow-believers on Christ Jesus:
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/globalchurch.htm

Furthermore, if you or Roger want me to leave this Forum because I warn about these things, I have no problem with leaving. But I will not bow down to only talking sweetness preaching, soothing words that are only designed to make one feel good but at same time hide much God's Truth for our times.

dp

[nChrist]

Furthermore, if you or Roger want me to leave this Forum because I warn about these things, I have no problem with leaving. But I will not bow down to only talking sweetness preaching, soothing words that are only designed to make one feel good but at same time hide much God's Truth for our times.

dp

Hello dp,

To say that I'm shocked with the above statement would be an understatement. It sounds like you accuse us of defending or supporting the occult.

My message to you was the opposite, and you certainly won't find anything on this forum that even hints that anyone here supports or defends the occult. We don't allow that garbage and filth on Christians Unite. If you think that we do, I'd really appreciate you pointing to whatever it is that gave you such a wild idea.

I was trying to converse with you about this topic in a nice way, but I can see that was an error on my part, and it won't happen again. If I converse with you again, it will be so blunt that you couldn't possibly misunderstand it. I've seen some misunderstandings, but I guess this tops it. If the moderators here want you to leave, you will understand it beyond any doubt at all. You are most welcome to stay and teach all of the anti-occult stuff you want. We've done the same and will continue to do so.

Moderator

[dp]

I apologize Tom for taking your statements the wrong way. But the general sense I got from your first post was that you didn't want these type of things discussed here, because you feel true believing Christians would not fall to them anyway, and thus there would be no reason to discuss such warnings. I never insinuated that anyone here was following the occult. But I won't try to hide the fact there are false prophets in the world, and in some Christian pulpits deceiving our brethren.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive on this because that's exactly how I've been treated by many, many other fellow believers on this matter, because they simply believe it won't affect them because they'll be 'raptured' away before it happens. The truth is that working is already here today, and is already affecting many believers in falling away. I've heard the secret rapture idea being used as a crutch too often as a reason for not being concerned about this matter, and many other things our Lord and His Apostles and prophets warned us about for the latter days.

The fact that our Lord Jesus gave that warning to His disciples, and even said the false working would be so great that even the "very elect" might be deceived if it were possible, is a Message that His "very elect" servants will be here on earth to go through it. It was no different in any of the prophet's days, like Jeremiah, Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, etc.

Further, I've haven't found anywhere in Scripture that says Jesus will return in secret to rapture out some believers while leaving the rest on earth. My Bible says the great gathering to Christ won't happen until the very last trumpet sounding, which is the 7th trumpet of Revelation, which also is the "last trump" Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and is the same trumpet of 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The seven trumpets of Revelation sound in order, because that was how they were used to signal events in prep for battle. Moreover, Rev.1:7 says every eye shall see Him at His coming, even those who pierced Him (meaning His enemies). There will be nothing secret about our Lord Jesus Christ's second coming.

dp