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In the news - muslims......
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Topic: In the news - muslims...... (Read 103770 times)
Shammu
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Re: In the news - muslims......
«
Reply #105 on:
November 10, 2007, 03:15:31 PM »
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As WND reported, the founder of the leading Islamic lobby group CAIR, the Council on Islamic-American Relations, reportedly told a group of Muslims in California they are in America not to assimilate but to help assert Islam's rule over the country. CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper also has said, in a newspaper interview, he hopes to see an Islamic government over the U.S. some day, brought about not by violence but through "education."
Theres only one problem, Ibrahim Hooper's vision of no violence won't happen. They, (islam) has proven time, after time violence is the only way they know.
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Shammu
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Arafat mausoleum unveiled in Ramallah
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Reply #106 on:
November 10, 2007, 03:34:16 PM »
Arafat mausoleum unveiled in Ramallah
By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago
RAMALLAH, West Bank - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas dedicated Yasser Arafat's sleek new mausoleum in a ceremony Saturday, drawing on his predecessor's continued popularity as he heads into peace negotiations with Israel.
Abbas aides, meanwhile, reported new difficulties in preparations for the U.S.-hosted Mideast conference later this month. Abbas called U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to complain that Israel had backed away from a promise to accept U.S. monitoring of its initial peace obligations, officials said. Israel declined to comment.
Saturday's dedication of the mausoleum, on the third anniversary of Arafat's death, was meant to boost Abbas' legitimacy as he faces a stiff challenge from the rival Hamas. The Islamic militant group, which violently seized control of Gaza from Abbas' security forces in June, maintains Abbas has no mandate to negotiate with Israel on behalf of the Palestinians.
However, Hamas has not dared to criticize Arafat's policies, including his involvement in peace talks, since his death on Nov. 11, 2004, instead embracing him as a national symbol. In Gaza, an Arafat memorial rally on Monday is expected to draw the largest crowd of supporters of Abbas' Fatah movement since Hamas' takeover. On Saturday, Fatah supporters held several marches in Gaza, and Hamas police did not intervene.
Arafat died at 75 in a French military hospital, after spending his final years under Israeli siege at his West Bank headquarters. The exact cause of death remains unknown, fueling persistent rumors that he was poisoned or died of AIDS. Israel has denied involvement in his death.
The mausoleum, made of glass and beige Jerusalem stone, is surrounded on three sides by water, and a piece of railroad track is entombed underneath Arafat's grave. The water and track are meant to symbolize the temporary nature of the burial site, officials said, with Palestinians planning to rebury their former leader one day in Jerusalem, their hoped-for capital.
A mosque has been built next to the tomb, and an Arafat museum is to open at the site next year. The memorial complex will cost $1.75 million, paid for by public funds, said Mohammed Ishtayeh, head of the Palestinian Economic Council for Development and Reconstruction, which oversees the project.
In unveiling the mausoleum, Abbas said he would press ahead with Arafat's quest for statehood. "We are continuing the path, continuing the pledge, to establish an independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital, God willing," said Abbas.
The fate of the city, claimed by both Israel and the Palestinians as a capital, is one of the most explosive issues in the upcoming peace talks.
On Sunday, tens of thousands are expected at the compound to mark Arafat's death, followed by the Gaza rally on Monday. Spreading out the commemorations over three days appeared part of Abbas' attempt to harness Arafat's legacy in the face of the upcoming challenges.
Palestinian officials said Saturday that negotiators are struggling with writing a joint document that is to serve as a basis for the peace conference, to be held in late November in Annapolis, Md. Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said the two sides have not progressed past the preamble of the document.
In addition, a dispute has arisen over how to implement the obligations laid out in the "road map" peace plan, which is now being revived. Under the plan, Israel must immediately freeze settlement construction and dismantle dozens of illegal settlement outposts, while Palestinians have to disarm militants and round up illegal weapons.
Palestinian officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that during her latest Mideast trip earlier this week, Rice secured support for setting up a committee of top Israeli, Palestinian and U.S. officials to monitor implementation of these obligations.
The Palestinian officials said Abbas called Rice on Friday to complain that Israel has since backed off the idea of the oversight committee, in which the U.S. would be the final arbiter of disputes.
The Palestinians maintain they have started meeting their road map obligations, including a crackdown on militants, but that Israel has done nothing so far. Israel says the Palestinians haven't done enough to rein in militants.
Arafat mausoleum unveiled in Ramallah
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Shammu
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Islamic terror hits tourist paradise
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Reply #107 on:
November 10, 2007, 03:36:59 PM »
Islamic terror hits tourist paradise
By RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writer Sat Nov 10, 11:51 AM ET
MALE, Maldives - While vacationing tycoons and bikini-clad Hollywood superstars blissfully sipped drinks on the Maldives' secluded white beaches, an Islamic revolution fueled by preachers trained in Pakistan and the Middle East was brewing.
On Sept. 29, the two faces of the Maldives collided when a homemade bomb exploded in a park in the capital, Male, wounding 12 tourists, threatening the critical resort industry and sending the clear message that even this remote corner of paradise is not immune to terrorism.
The attack, and a bloody confrontation days later between police and masked Islamic extremists armed with harpoons, stunned this Indian Ocean nation and threatened its careful effort to balance its traditionally moderate Islamic heritage with liberal Western values.
The government reacted swiftly to crush the fundamentalist movement that had risen amid the palm trees and crystal blue waters of its 1,190 coral islands. Authorities banned the veil, arrested scores of suspected extremists, sealed underground mosques and promised a crackdown on radical preachers.
"We are not taking chances," Information Minister Mohamed Nasheed said.
So far, the violence has not frightened off the tourists, who account for one-third of the economy, he said. But "if there is another attack, then we just close tourism here. And we can't afford that," he said.
By far the most prosperous country in south Asia, with a per capita annual income of $2,700, the republic had seemed safe from the worldwide rise of Islamic militancy. Its longtime ruler, President Maumoon Abdul Gayoom, had harnessed his nation's major natural resource — hundreds of small, deserted islands — to create remote, upscale resorts that fueled explosive economic growth.
But the country also suffered deep divisions.
While many high school graduates went to Europe or Australia for a liberal education, others studied religion at extremist institutions in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and spread their radical beliefs across the islands, said Rohan Gunaratna, a Singapore-based terrorism expert hired by the government. He estimated that several thousand of the country's 300,000 people now follow these clerics.
"They are preaching a deviant form of Islam," he said.
These once marginal preachers have found a new wave of adherents in recent years. The global outburst of Islamic anger after the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the spread of Internet access to this country's remote islands played a major role in the growing fundamentalism, said Hassan Saeed, the Maldives' former attorney general.
"Suddenly, an island nation cut off from the rest of the world became part of the global village," he said.
So did the Maldives. But despite the relative prosperity, there weren't enough jobs for the huge population of young people, and many turned to drugs or radical Islam, Saeed said. The Islamic Council, the government body that runs official mosques, accredits preachers and controls all aspects of religion here, was still distributing decades-old sermons to its imams and was caught unprepared, he said.
The trauma of the 2004 tsunami, which killed more than 100 people here and devastated many islands, also fueled an Islamic revival. Hussein Mohammed, 40, said he was among 200 displaced people originally from the island of Moondu who spent two years in an abandoned textile factory on the island of Gan before getting a new house. Many in the crowded factory sought solace in the translated copies of the Quran the government provided, and within months nearly all the women began wearing head scarves, he said.
"After something like the tsunami, this frightening thing, people became far more interested in religion," he said.
While many of the fundamentalists were not violent, a Maldivian was caught trying to join the Taliban in Afghanistan, another was arrested in India seeking to buy sniper rifles, and a third was jailed by U.S. authorities in Guantanamo Bay, Saeed said.
"For a small country, there were a large number of alarming signals," said Saeed, who quit the government in August, in part because he felt a report he wrote on the looming problem was ignored.
Like villagers on several other scattered islands, the people of Gan found themselves suddenly confronted by a small group of angry fundamentalists earlier this year.
"They said they are Muslims and others are not Muslims and that others should be killed," said Daoud Ibrahim, the clean-shaven imam at the government mosque. "I have never seen this before ... it's against our traditions."
While rows of villagers in knitted white skullcaps prayed in the spacious mosque with its green tile floors, the fundamentalists — dressed in Saudi-style white robes and headdress_ took over a tiny mosque of concrete and corrugated metal meant for Bangladeshi construction workers. They pressured Maldivian women to wear head scarves, mocked clean-shaven men as unbelievers and quietly plotted to drive tourists out, officials said.
Some in the group were tsunami refugees from the remote island of Kalhadoo, which embraced a strict form of Islam more than a quarter century ago under the tutelage of a Saudi-educated preacher named Mohammed Ibrahim. Angry at Ibrahim's dissident Islamic views, the government banished him from Male to Kalhadoo, where he quickly turned the islanders into his disciples, said Yousef Ismail, a former Kalhadoo resident who now lives in Gan. Ismail spoke as his wife sat nearby, covered head-to-toe in a black robe.
Police say at least one of the men on Gan, whose cell phone was discovered in the ocean near the airport, was directly connected to the Male blast. On Wednesday, police said the man, Abdul Latheef Ibrahim, had fled to Pakistan ahead of the blast along with nine other suspects from different Maldive islands. Six other suspects were already in custody.
The nail-packed bomb exploded just before 3 p.m. in a Male park popular with tourists. The blast wounded 12 vacationers from Japan, China and Britain. Though the bomb was poorly built, it was a sign of more attacks to come if the government did not confront the problem, terrorism expert Gunaratna said.
"This is the way it starts, then the bomb-making becomes more sophisticated because they learn," he said.
After the bombing, the band of fundamentalists on Gan disappeared amid conflicting reports they had been arrested, fled abroad or were hiding in the island's lush palm groves or even in their own homes.
The government swiftly launched a wave of arrests around Male and brought in the FBI. On Oct. 7, scores of police landed on the island of Himandhoo, a reputed insurgent stronghold.
The islanders were waiting. Photographs published in magazines showed masked men, some wearing motorcycle helmets and carrying clubs, gathered in an unauthorized mosque they had rebuilt after authorities demolished it last year.
A melee broke out. Islanders stabbed one officer in the leg with a harpoon, slashed another with a gigantic fishing hook and nearly severed the hand of a third, said spokesman Nasheed. When the fighting ended the next day, more than 30 troops and officers were injured and 65 islanders arrested.
In the wake of the violence, the government announced it would encourage moderate Islamic scholars, update the religious curriculum to make it relevant and enforce an earlier law prohibiting women from veiling their faces. But clusters of veiled women continue to walk the streets of Male, underscoring the challenge the government faces.
Nasheed said he also instructed state-owned media to stop glorifying holy war and cease referring to Palestinian suicide bombers as jihadis. State television will hire no new female anchors who wear head scarves and no longer shows veiled women, even in news reports, he said.
The government will stop accrediting imams from extremist schools — many of them in the Middle East — and will fire all the radical scholars serving on the Islamic Council, he said.
"We are trying to replace them with people who have come from Asian countries, except Pakistan of course," Nasheed said.
Officials from the Islamic party Adalaath blame the rise of extremism on political repression that has kept Gayoom in power since 1978. The latest crackdown would only make things worse, said Asim Mohamed, the party's political secretary.
"We feel the government is using that opportunity to oppress the opposition," he said.
Nasheed said the fight against the extremists was too critical to the country's survival for the government to ignore.
"We have always been a very liberal society," he said. "We can't afford to look back 1,400 years."
Islamic terror hits tourist paradise
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: In the news - muslims......
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Reply #108 on:
November 11, 2007, 11:01:59 AM »
CAIR Seeks to Take Down Radio Host for Criticizing Islam...
CAIR Targets Another Conservative Talk Show Host
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) is pressing advertisers to withdraw their sponsorship of Michael Savage's nationally syndicated radio program because of Savage's alleged "anti-Muslim bigotry."
Savage, on his Web site, is fighting back, urging his listeners to protect freedom of speech: "Email your representative; investigate CAIR for manipulating the U.S. media," his Web site says.
On Nov. 1, CAIR urged "radio listeners of all faiths" to contact companies that advertise on "The Savage Nation" to complain about an "anti-Muslim tirade" on Savage's Oct. 29 program. (CAIR periodically issues "incitement alerts," urging its members to contact various media outlets to express their concerns about "Islamophobic attitudes.")
CAIR was particularly disturbed by Savage's "shouted anti-Muslim attacks," which it quoted as follows:
-- I'm not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I'm not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I'm not getting' on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don't like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don't wanna hear anymore about Islam. I don't wanna hear one more word about Islam. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I'm sick of you.
-- What kind of religion is this? What kind of world are you living in when you let them in here with that throwback document in their hand, which is a book of hate. Don't tell me I need reeducation. They need deportation. I don't need reeducation. Deportation, not reeducation. You can take C-A-I-R and throw 'em out of my country. I'd raise the American flag and I'd get out my trumpet if you did it. Without due process. You can take your due process and shove it.
-- What sane nation that worships the U.S. Constitution, which is the greatest document of freedom ever written, would bring in people who worship a book that tells them the exact opposite. Make no mistake about it, the Quran is not a document of freedom. The Quran is a document of slavery and chattel. It teaches you that you are a slave.
CAIR also complained that Savage has a "long history of rhetorical attacks on Muslims and other minorities."
Explosive and unafraid
Savage's own Web site describes him as "explosive conservative radio talk show host" who "continues to dominate the airwaves with his brash commentary and unapologetic solutions...Savage is harder hitting than other conservatives...a media icon who is unafraid to take on the establishment."
"...In show, books and speeches, Michael Savage electrifies and galvanizes his audiences. If you're looking for someone with an opinion -- who isn't afraid to tell it like it is -- he's your man."
On Nov. 2, CAIR's Minnesota chapter announced that three companies in that state had agreed to pull their advertisements from "The Savage Nation."
And on Thursday, CAIR thanked Citrix Systems, Inc., for agreeing to drop its advertisements from Savage's nationally syndicated program. "We appreciate Citrix's principled action to disassociate itself from Michael Savage's hate-filled rhetoric," said CAIR Communications Coordinator Amina Rubin in a news release on Thursday.
"We urge other local and national companies running ads on Savage's program to follow Citrix's example in support of religious tolerance."
What about free speech?
"Free speech is a precious right that we fully support and strive to protect," Rubin added. "We are not seeking to curb Mr. Savage's freedom of speech, but to demonstrate that Americans and American companies will not tolerate hatred and bigotry."
CAIR, which describes itself as America's largest Muslim civil liberties group, says its mission is to "enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding."
But conservative commentators who have been on the receiving end of CAIR's anti-Islamaphobia campaigns disagree.
Radio talk show host Michael Graham, forced out of his job in the Washington, D.C., market for refusing to apologize for remarks that offended a Muslim group, landed a new job in Boston, Mass., last year.
CAIR, which pressed for Graham's removal, said it received complaints from Muslim listeners who heard Graham say, "Islam is a terrorist organization," "Islam is at war with America," "The problem is not extremism. The problem is Islam," and "We are at war with a terrorist organization named Islam."
Graham was suspended from his job at ABC-owned WMAL in Washington on July 29, 2005, after he refused a management request to apologize for practicing what CAIR called "hate radio."
"When CAIR is able to quell dissent and label every critic a 'bigot,' the chilling effect is felt far beyond ABC Radio and 630 WMAL," Graham said at the time.
On Thursday, CAIR said radio host Michael Savage has "stepped up his attacks on Islam and Muslims in response to CAIR's advertiser campaign."
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: In the news - muslims......
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Reply #109 on:
November 11, 2007, 11:05:19 AM »
Quote
What about free speech?
cair doesn't want free speech for anyone except for themselves and theirs crosses the line of free speech into speech that not only incites hatred and violence but advocates it as a means to destroy those that disagree with them. It is time for people to put a stop to those that wish us silenced or destroyed.
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Re: In the news - muslims......
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Reply #110 on:
November 11, 2007, 11:13:18 AM »
A Nation Ignorant of Being at War
There can be little doubt that terrorist organizations have arrived on the shores of the United States of America. The thousands of lives lost on September 11, 2001 stand as testimony to this undeniable fact. The attacks signaled to the world that radical Islamofascists were serious in their declaration of war against the United States and her Western allies. An examination of Osama bin Laden’s 1996 fatwa – his declaration of war – indicates that this conflict is a generational conflict and a confrontation as we have never experienced before.
The truth of the matter is that terrorists have been migrating to the United States, establishing their organizational cells, infiltrating and fading into our communities for decades; laying in wait for the correct moments to strike. These are precisely the events that preceded the flights that delivered the nineteen 9/11 hijackers and thousands of innocent people to their destinies.
Today, dozens of terrorist organizations with thousands of operatives exist and operate within the borders of the United States. These organizations include Hezbollah, Hamas, Abu Sayyaf, Islamic Jihad, Jamaat al Fuqra, the Muslim Brotherhood and al Qaeda, to name but a few. These organizations have cells in Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York and Washington D.C., as well as Tucson, Denver, Tulsa, Detroit, Cleveland, Orlando, Kansas City, Boston and many more cities in the United States.
Radical Islamist front groups and sympathetic “philanthropic” organizations such as the Holy Land Foundation and the Council on American-Islamist Relations – both named in evidence offered in a recent federal court case involving the funding of terrorism – have set up regional branches around the country. They are not only raising, laundering and funneling money back to the Middle East to support their terrorist organizations, they are setting up Jihadi training camps right here in the United States.
The recent exposure of a suspected Islamist Jihadi training compound at Islamberg, New York, and many more like it around the country, stands as a stark warning to the American people (and our government) that we must detoxify from our caustic relationships with moral relativism and political correctness and embrace the reality that radical Islamist Jihadis are here, now, and training among us for future attacks on our nation.
Many counterterrorism experts, including former CIA Director James Woolsey, founding member of the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center, Dr. Bruce Tefft, and Frank Gaffney, founder and president of the Center for Security Policy, agree, it is not a question of “if” there will be another attack on American soil, it is a question of “when.” The only questions left unanswered about this future attack are how lethal it will be, where it will take place and whether we will have had enough foresight to have acquired the information needed to literally help save our own lives.
In his 1998 fatwa Osama bin Laden said:
“The Americans started it and retaliation and punishment should be carried out following the principle of reciprocity, especially when women and children are involved. Through history, America has not been known to differentiate between the military and the civilians or between men and women or adults and children. Those who threw atomic bombs and used the weapons of mass destruction against Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the Americans. Can the bombs differentiate between military and women and infants and children?”
The key words here are, of course, his references to Hiroshima and Nagasaki but, more importantly, his declaration that “retaliation and punishment should be carried out following the principle of reciprocity.”
The issue of terrorism is a deadly serious one. If we are to take bin Laden at his word – and only the intellectually challenged and the suicidal would ignore him at this point – it is a deadly serious issue that includes his quest for nuclear capability. This absolute threat directly affects every American – as well as every freedom-loving citizen of the world – yet accurate, fact-based, first-source information on the threat of terrorism is not readily provided through traditional channels.
Adequate information about the threat we face is not forthcoming from our government nor are we served by a self-serving and agenda-driven media. Websites that offer accurate information on the threat of terrorism are routinely removed from private sector Internet search engine indexes for mentioning terrorism in relation to Islam, while those who do attempt to educate the public on the origins and activities of terror groups in the United States are either ignored by the mainstream media or smeared by biased special interest groups.
With our nation’s borders left unsecured, a plethora of terrorist organizations with thousands of operatives on American soil and multiple sightings of al Qaeda’s nuclear expert, gotcha98 el Shukrijumah (a terrorist hand-picked by Osama bin Laden to perpetrate what many are describing as the “American Hiroshima” and a member of the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted List) in North and Central America, we can ill-afford not to be engaged on this, the quintessential conflict of our time.
The American people need accurate information regarding the threat on terrorism so that We the People can understand our government’s actions and engage our elected officials when necessary, providing them with educated opinions and reasoned oversight so that they can act prudently on our behalf.
The fact of the matter is that fundamentalist Islamofascism is being fought in countries around the world. From Iraq and Afghanistan to Somalia and Sudan, Indonesia and India to Paraguay, China, Russia, the U.K., France and the United States, radical Islamists – especially Wahhabis and Salafists – are training, planning and engaging in activities meant to cause harm to the West in general and particularly the United States and those who stand in her defense.
If we don’t embrace the reality that we are a nation at war, if we don’t start taking seriously the threat that radical Islam poses to our nation from both a violent and an ideological standpoint, we will lose this conflict. If we lose this conflict there will be no gay rights, no tax cuts and no need to debate universal healthcare or immigration reform. We will all be pining for the inequitable days of political correctness as we exist under the savagely oppressive tenets of Sharia law.
To those of you who don’t think this can happen or can’t fathom it happening at the hands of a group of 7th Century throwbacks with AK-47s and Soviet Era rocket launchers, to those of you who believe that the United States can remain invincible without an engaged citizenry, I leave you with this thought. The leaders of the USSR couldn’t fathom their nation’s demise either...right up to the moment it no longer existed.
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HisDaughter
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Re: In the news - muslims......
«
Reply #111 on:
November 11, 2007, 11:42:49 AM »
Quote from: Pastor Roger on November 11, 2007, 11:01:59 AM
CAIR was particularly disturbed by Savage's "shouted anti-Muslim attacks," which it quoted as follows:
-- I'm not gonna put my wife in a hijab. And I'm not gonna put my daughter in a burqa. And I'm not getting' on my all-fours and braying to Mecca. And you could drop dead if you don't like it. You can shove it up your pipe. I don't wanna hear anymore about Islam. I don't wanna hear one more word about Islam. Take your religion and shove it up your behind. I'm sick of you.
-- What kind of religion is this? What kind of world are you living in when you let them in here with that throwback document in their hand, which is a book of hate. Don't tell me I need reeducation. They need deportation. I don't need reeducation. Deportation, not reeducation. You can take C-A-I-R and throw 'em out of my country. I'd raise the American flag and I'd get out my trumpet if you did it. Without due process. You can take your due process and shove it.
-- What sane nation that worships the U.S. Constitution, which is the greatest document of freedom ever written, would bring in people who worship a book that tells them the exact opposite. Make no mistake about it, the Quran is not a document of freedom. The Quran is a document of slavery and chattel. It teaches you that you are a slave.
Quote from: Pastor Roger on November 11, 2007, 11:01:59 AM
The problem is Islam," and "We are at war with a terrorist organization named Islam."
Call it what it is.......Satanism.
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HisDaughter
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Re: In the news - muslims......
«
Reply #112 on:
November 11, 2007, 12:14:51 PM »
Quote from: Pastor Roger on November 11, 2007, 11:13:18 AM
A Nation Ignorant of Being at War
The recent exposure of a suspected Islamist Jihadi training compound at Islamberg, New York, and many more like it around the country, stands as a stark warning to the American people (and our government) that we must detoxify from our caustic relationships with moral relativism and political correctness and embrace the reality that radical Islamist Jihadis are here, now, and training among us for future attacks on our nation.
Islamberg, New York?
?
For Pete's Sake!!! Not to mention the rest of the article!
I think this just proves that our own govenment are in bed with the enemy and should all be put in front of a fireing squad. Traitors all.
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: In the news - muslims......
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Reply #113 on:
November 11, 2007, 01:31:44 PM »
Quote from: grammyluv on November 11, 2007, 12:14:51 PM
Islamberg, New York?
?
For Pete's Sake!!! Not to mention the rest of the article!
I think this just proves that our own govenment are in bed with the enemy and should all be put in front of a fireing squad. Traitors all.
Precisely.
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Re: In the news - muslims......
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Reply #114 on:
November 11, 2007, 03:49:02 PM »
Brothers and Sisters,
I don't think that anyone knows how many terrorist training camps we have on our own soil, but we have concrete evidence of some and nothing is being done.
The same is true for Madrassas, the schools where they start teaching 5 year olds to be suicide bombers. YES - they are here also and nothing is being done about it.
There is direct evidence of large numbers of terrorists infiltrating our country through open borders, and nothing is being done about that either.
Brothers and Sisters, there is more here than just gross incompetence. There are other agendas that are more important than survival. It would be a huge job to undo the damage that's already been done, and I fear that it's too late. An attempt to fix some of the damage might trigger events that are already planned and ready to go. Regardless, I think that the effort should be made. Deportation is the legal answer for folks who are planning violence, and it makes no difference if that planning is taking place in a Mosque. There isn't any religious freedom to do that in this country.
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Italy: Church opens doors for Muslim Friday prayers
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Reply #115 on:
November 11, 2007, 08:43:09 PM »
Italy: Church opens doors for Muslim Friday prayers
Treviso, 9 Nov. (AKI) - A priest in Paderno di Ponzano near Treviso in the northern Italian region of Veneto, Aldo Danieli, has decided to allow Muslims to meet and pray in church premises in his parish on Fridays to foster better integration of immigrants in the local community, La Repubblica newspaper's website reports.
Volunteers at the church of Santa Maria Assunta have said that their meetings with Muslims from the immigrant community enable them to "experience different cultures and break down barriers caused by misunderstanding and intolerance," La Repubblica said, quoting Italian charity Auser.
The meetings between volunteers from Danieli's parish and local Muslims - many of whom are women - have been organised through Treviso's Islamic Centre.
Some 650 immigrants, many of whom are from North Africa, live in Paderno di Ponzano , a small town of 9,800 people.
Italy: Church opens doors for Muslim Friday prayers
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18-year-old Christian woman raped then forced to convert to Islam
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Reply #116 on:
November 12, 2007, 12:59:06 AM »
18-year-old Christian woman raped then forced to convert to Islam
by Qaiser Felix
A young Christian woman from Faisalabad is abducted by a Muslim man after visiting an aunt. She was held for ten days and forcibly converted to Islam. Despite a complaint from the victim’s father, the police have not yet taken any steps fearing the religious repercussions they may have.
Faisalabad (AsiaNews) – A young Christian woman was kidnapped, raped and forced to convert to Islam by a Muslim man in Faisalabad, Khalil Tahir, chairman of “Adal Trust,” a free legal aid organisation that helps minorities, told AsiaNews.
According to early reports, 18-year-old Razia went to visit her aunt on October 21 but never came home. Her parents went out looking for her but to no avail. They also contacted a Muslim man, Sajid, who had harassed her in the past, but he denied any knowledge of her whereabouts.
Razia did eventually make it home on October 31 in a state of shock. She told her parents that Sajid had abducted her, repeatedly raped her and forced her to convert to Islam. She is currently under medical care.
“The girl’s father went to the police to file a complaint on the evening of Razia’s return, but they were reluctant to register the case fearing that it might get out of proportion because of its religious element,” Khalil Tahir told AsiaNews.
For the time being “that man is free,” he said. “He can do whatever he wants,” he added, “but as a lawyer I’ll do everything in my power to help the family get justice in a Pakistani court.”
I won't post the link because of graphic images.
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The Letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope and Christian Leaders
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Reply #117 on:
November 12, 2007, 01:05:38 AM »
The Letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope and Christian Leaders
by Samir Khalil Samir, sj
Beirut (AsiaNews) – The Letter by 138 Islamic academics to the pope and Christian leaders is a first positive step towards dialogue, which however needs to become more universal and more concrete.
The letter lies in the explicit context of an extension of the first letter, sent exactly one year ago to Benedict XVI, as a reply to his masterful address at Regensburg University: the same date was chosen for its publication (13th October 2007), which this year coincided with the end of Ramadan.
A highly representative Letter
"Download" the complete text of the Letter in English
The fact that its signatories have increased compared to last year is noteworthy: from 38 – as it was last year – they have become 138. They represent over 43 nations, both Muslim and otherwise (in particular western nations). Among them are great muftis (that is leaders of the fatwa in a country), religious leaders, academics and scholars.
Beyond representatives of the two great Sunni and Shiite groups, there are also representatives from smaller groups, sects and even diverging trends, for example the most mystic of those trends (Sufi), who are largely represented in te West. There are also for example Ismailites, derived from the Shiites; jafaarites, also a derivative of Shia Islam; ribadites, which is an ancient group of Islam, rarely spoken of but which has a representation in Yemen.
This indicates a broadening of consensus within a certain Islamic quarter, a step towards what Islam calls ijmaa (consensus). In the Islamic tradition every point of faith is founded in three sources: the Koran, on the muhammadian tradition (hadith or that is the sayings and life of Mohammad), community consensus, in other words ijmaa. This third step up until now has never really been evaluated. Actually, there is deep division n the Islamic world: one day one Imam says one thing; the next day he says something different.
This letter does not say that there is agreement between all Muslims, but it shows a concerted move towards a certain consensus. This convergence came about under the auspices of the King of Jordan, and the Aal al-Bayt (family of the Prophet of Islam) foundation, lead by the king’s uncle Prince Hassan. This man represents the best of Islam today, from the point of view of reflection, openness and devotion. Being a devote and faithful Muslim, he married a Hindu who – quite unusual in modern Islam – did not have to convert to Islam, as is being demanded of the Christian women today in the West, but which is in no way foreseen in the Koran.
The first positive point of the letter is therefore the fact that it is highly representative, coming from a converging group. The letter is also representative because it has been sent throughout the Christian world. If you take a look at those to whom it has been addressed, you can see a carefully drawn up and complete list: besides the pope we have all of the eastern Christian traditions, the patriarchs of the Calcedonian and pre Calcedonian Churches; then the protestant Churches and finally the World Council of Churches. Which amply shows that behind this letter is someone who knows and understands Christianity and the history of the Church.
I – The structure
On coming to the content of the letter what is immediately striking is the fact that the title has been taken from the Koran: “A Common Word between Us and You” (Sura of the family of Imran, 3:64). This is what Mohammed says to the Christians in the Koran: when he sees that he cannot reach agreement with them, then he says: Come let us agree on at least one common ground: that we shall worship none but God (the oneness of God) “and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside God.”.
What must be noted is that this common word in the Koran, does not take into consideration any definition of Mohammed. This sentence does not speak of Mohammad as a prophet, or the last messenger of God. What is underlined is the common word and the oneness of God. Which in itself is a positive step, exactly starting from the Koran.
The structure of the letter is composed of three parts: the first is entitled “love of god”, subdivided into two, “love of god in Islam” and “love of god as the first and greatest commandment in the bible”. In reality, the title in the original Arabic is more precise, it says “in the Gospel”. By using the word “Bible” (which includes the New and Old Testament) Judaism can be included in the discourse (even if the letter is only addressed to Christians). The second part is entitled “love of the neighbour” (hubb al-jâr). Also subdivided in two: «love of the neighbour in Islam» and « love of the neighbour in the Bible». Where once again the original Arabic says “in the Gospel”.
The third part concludes by taking up the Koran citation: “come to a common word between us and you”, and offers an interesting analysis in three parts: “common word”, “come to a common word” and “between us and you”.
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Re: In the news - muslims......
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Reply #118 on:
November 12, 2007, 01:06:39 AM »
II – Reflections on the content
I desire to make some observations regarding this structure.
First and foremost, there is continuity between the first and second letter. The first letter concluded on the necessity to arrive at an agreement based on love for God and for our neighbour. With this the scholars wish to say: we are now developing on what we announced as the basis for all relations between Islam and Christianity.
It is most interesting to note that the vocabulary used is a Christian vocabulary and not a Muslim one. The word “neighbour” (in the Christian sense of brethren) does not exist in the Koran; it is typical of the New Testament. In fact, the Arabic text does not use the word “neighbour/brethren” but “neighbour” (jâr), which only has a geographical meaning (like a neighbour who lives next door), compared to the Christian term qarîb, which also means “brethren”.
The word “love” is rarely used in the Koran. It is not even part of the names of God. It is never said that God is a lover, even if there are less striking synonyms. Instead the word is widely used in Christianity. Moreover if the first part, love of God in Islam, is analysed, we Christians would refer to it as “obedience to God”, not “love”. But here they have termed it so, to align themselves to the Christian vocabulary. Which is a lovely thought but also a little dangerous as it risks falling into the trap of “settling”. Usually Muslims speak of the adoration of God; but the theme of Love for God is another discourse, which is not excluded from Islam, but found abundantly in the world of Sufism.
Either way in this letter, speaking of “love of God” is a novelty. Perhaps it is even an able way of referring to Pope Benedict’s first encyclical (Deus caritas est). It certainly shows a desire to draw near to the Christian way of speaking, even if at the same time there is the risk of taking two meanings from the same word.
Other questions of Vocabulary
In this context, the Arab version of the letter uses different terminologies compared to the French, Italian, or English versions. We have already noted that where the Arabic speaks of the Gospel the western languages speak of the Bible. I will give other examples.
For example: speaking of Christ, in the western versions “Jesus Christ” is always cited. In the Arab version’s: "Issa- al-Massih”. This expression cannot be found in the Koran, but is the combined result of how the Muslims call Jesus (Issa) – Arab Christians call him “Jasua” – and the Christian definition of “al-Massih”, Christ, which is found in the Koran. The expression in the Koran is “Al-Massih Issa Ibn Mariam” (the Messiah Issa son of Mary), while the usual Christian expression “Jasua’ al-Massih” (Jesus Christ). The text of the letter is littered with expressions from the Koran intermingled with Christian expressions.
When they quote from the Koran and the Bible, they use two different measures. Quoting from the Koran they say “God said”, as does every good Muslim. When the quote versus from the bible, they only say “as it is found in the New Testament”, “as it is read in the Gospel”, etc… Which means that they use, in terms of the Bible, a more scholarly studious approach, while for the Koran they use the terminology of a believer in Islam.
But in the end the structure is truly beautiful: from here on in we may say that Christianity, Judaism and Islam have love of God and of ones neighbour as the heart of their faith. This is the real novelty which has never before been said by the Islamic world.
Use of the Bible
In quotations from the New and Old Testament, they take for granted that the Bible is the word of God. This too is a relative novelty. In the Koran this idea is theoretically affirmed, but it is rejected in practice. Very often Muslims consider the Bible as a product (muharrafah or mubaddalah) manipulated by later additions to the original nucleus.
The 138 (in note 4) even go as far as to quote St Paul regarding the idea of the “heart”. St Paul is in general totally rejected by the vast majority of Muslims, he is even considered as a traitor of Jesus Christ’s message, which according to them was originally an “Islamic message”. Often Muslims claim that Christ’s message was like that of the Koran, but that Paul introduced the Trinity, Redemption through the Cross, and the rejection of Moses’ law. A famous anti-Christian book, published in 2000 and banned in Lebanon, is entitled “Unmasking Paul”!
All of these little signs show a real desire for dialogue at the level of language and biblical testimonies. There are even some allusions to Hebraism, in order to integrate it in this vision. Using for example the term “people of the scriptures”, it is clear that this refers to the Jews, even if the discourse is officially addressed to Christians.
III. Positive appreciation and a critical reading
Let us now try to see other positive aspects of this document, while at the same time pointing out its gaps and elements which provoke the need for deeper reflections. In short, I would like to make a critical reading of the Letter.
The search for a common basis… but not a universal one
On coming to the content of the letter my impression is that by staying at this level it is quite easy to reach agreement. The method being used is to choose excerpts from sacred texts that can be paralleled. In the Koran there are texts that are a contradiction of Christianity, but they chose those which are closer and more similar. This is an important step but if we remain on this level, we risk casting a dialogue based on ambiguities. In any case as a first step it is useful to highlight our common foundations.
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Re: The Letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope and Christian Leaders
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Reply #119 on:
November 12, 2007, 01:07:40 AM »
Even in the Christian tradition there is a search for a common basis with other religions, as well as cultures. This basis, from the Christian point of view, is not based on the Bible or Koran, because this would exclude non-believers. The common basis is natural law, the Commandments seen as the natural laws, a common ethics accepted even by atheists.
In a speech to the International Theological Commission on October 5th last the pope spoke of natural moral law, to “justify and illustrate the foundations of a universal ethic which belongs to the great patrimony of human wisdom and which allows the rational creature to participate in God’s law”. Benedict XVI continues then in reference to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (n. 1955): moral life “has as its pivot aspirations and submission to God, source and judge of all good, and the sense that the other is equal to you”. The Commandments are “natural law” and were not revealed in a strict sense.
The pontiff continues by saying that starting from natural law, “in itself accessible to every rational creature, the basis for entering into dialogue with all people of goodwill, and civil society is laid”.
Just as the signatories of the Letter, the pope is trying to find a common basis for dialogue with everyone; this basis cannot be Scriptures, it is instead universal ethics founded on natural law.
The letter sent by Muslim experts to Christians stops at what is common in the Bible and the Koran. I think that the next step between Christians and Muslims is to find a more universal basis. This can include some elements of the sacred Scriptures as long as acceptable to all; but it should also go beyond this, to find a basis for universal dialogue.
This is what is missing from the letter, which only attempts to re-establish relations between Christians and Muslims. This is clearly stated in the introduction, recalling that together “we represent over 55% of the world’s population”. Thus by reaching an agreement we could almost impose peace in the world. It is a tactical, political approach. We need to move towards the rational foundation of peace, found in truth.
This is why, as Cardinal Tauran pointed out, the text is interesting, it opens some new roads in both its method and contents, but it needs to be explored more deeply to make it more objective and non selective, to render it more universal and less political.
Distinguishing between politics and people
From this point of view, we must add one more note of criticism. At a certain point the letter asks Christians to “consider Muslims not as being against them, but with them, on the condition that Christians do not declare war”. Here perhaps they are alluding to the problems in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan…..but there it is not Christians as such who are committed to war.
The Americans in Iraq (if it is this to which the letter refers) are not in Iraq as Christians who oppress Muslims: neither the Muslim nor the Christian element has any relevance here. It is rather a political issue between the United States and the Middle Eastern States. And even if we know that the president of the United States is a Christian and that he is led by his faith, it can be in no way claimed that this is a war of Christians against Muslims.
This is an important point because Muslims tend to see the West as a Christian power, without ever realising the point to which the West has been secularised and far from Christian ethics. This line of thought strengthens the theory of a clash of cultures (or religions), right at a time when steps are being taken to fight such a theory!
A beautiful conclusion: coexistence in diversity
One last point. In the letter the Koran verse on tolerance is quoted: “Had God willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto God ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ” (Al-Ma’idah, n. 5:48).
This sura is the penultimate in chronological order in the Koran. This means that this can not have been cancelled or overtaken by another, according to the Islamic theory of Koran interpretation, the so-called from the abrogate to the abrogated (nâsikh wa-l-mansűkh). This verse is fundamental because it states that our religious diversities are destined by God. The result is: “So vie one with another in good works” as a method of dialogue. This is truly a beautiful choice for concluding the Letter, because it means that we can live together despite our difference, moreover that God wants these difference!
Towards the future
This Letter is a first step in dialogue between Christians and Muslims. Often Christians have taken the initiative regarding dialogue, and they have so done well. It is important that this first steps continue in this direction with increased clarity, even showing differences and the need for correction. As the Letter is addressed to various leaders of the Christian world, we can hope that there will be a reply to this letter, which is the result of an immense effort by the Muslim part.
But this Letter is certainly also addressed to Muslims, even if not explicitly. What weight will it bring to bear in the Muslim world, considering that priests continue to be kidnapped, apostates persecuted, Christians oppressed? Up until now there has been no comment from the Islamic side. But I think that with time this document could create an opening and a greater convergence.
Above all, it is to be hoped that the next step will focus on the more delicate issues of religious freedom, the absolute value of human rights, the relationship between religion and society, the use of violence, etc.., in short current issues that worry both the Muslim world (and I would say above all Muslim people) as well as the West.
The Letter of 138 Muslim scholars to the Pope and Christian Leaders
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