TITHE AND OFFERING???

[GKB]

WHAT IS THE TITHE AND OFFERING FOR? I HAVE THIS BELIEF THAT THE CHURCH SHOULD TAKE TITHE AND OFFERING TO TAKE CARE OF CHURCH BUISNESS. I THINK THE CHURCH LEADERS SHOULD USE THIS MONEY FOR PAYMENTS ON THE CHURCH, GAS AND ELECTRIC, MAINTAINENCE, ETC....WHERE DID WWE GET ALL THIS NON-SENSE ABOUT PASTORS PARTNERS, DEACON BOARD, SPEAKERS OFFERING, ETC. IS THIS PURE?

[Allinall]

Welcome to the boards GKB!  And welcome to the wonderful world we call Church Polity!  

Seriously speaking, and in complete understanding that different denominational schools of thought provide different opinions than that to which I am about to propose, tithe is a dead issue.  That was an Old Testament viewpoint that has been replaced by the New Testament principle of grace giving from a cheerful heart.  It's interesting; the O.T. Israelite gave roughly 25% of his income, 10% of which was the tithe portion.  The N.T. Christian gave as needed, sometimes selling everything to meet a brothers need.  I personally believe that we are to give as we have been blessed rather than give in order to be blessed.  I also think that the monies spent to maintain a building, while necessary, could be better spent meeting the needs of the body.  But that's another discussion.  

All of the other instances of which you speak are programs meant, in their own way, to meet the very needs of which I speak.  I think we just get too caught up in the programs at the expense of the people.  As for the purity of these gifts...I'd say they're as pure as the hearts from which they are given.  Speakers are often supported for their ministries, much like Paul, Peter and the like were.  Deacon Boards gifts are often meant to go to meet the needs of those in the body.  This is probably, in my opinion, the most biblical application of those funds.

Well, I hope this helps.  Welcome again!  I look forward to reading more from you my friend.  

[GKB]

I AM REALLY EXCITED ABOUT SOME OF WHAT I'VE BEEN READING FROM YOU ALL....I THINK THAT ITS WONDERFUL THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY. I AM SOOOOOO HAPPY TO KNOW THAT THEY'RE ARE PEOPLE ON A QUEST FOR THE TRUE THINGS OF GOD. I WAS TRUELY BEGINING TO FEEL LIKE PEOPLE OF GOD WERE A RARE THING...THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE. IF I EVER HAD TO PASTOR A CHURCH, I WOULD TAKE TITHE AND OFFERING BUT FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD AS NEEDED.

[Jeff Mills]

I beleive we should give with a merrry heart.   Many churches here in Guatemala are extrenely poor and soemtimes there is never enough in the collection plate for the pastor to live, so as a missionary I raise fuinds for him.   He is doing a wonderful job and the church is growing, but we do need buildings and at the moment we are constructing a larger one.  We do not use the tithing for this.  All tithing goes to the pastor.

[GKB]

mills, why are all tithes given to the pastor? i understand that the pastor has to live, but should the tithe be given to the pastor as a rule? should the tithe be limited to pastor?

[cris]

mills, why are all tithes given to the pastor? i understand that the pastor has to live, but should the tithe be given to the pastor as a rule? should the tithe be limited to pastor?

This isn't Mills, but thought I'd add in my 2 pennies (pardon the pun).

Here's how I understand tithing.  We are supposed to tithe to our local church first.  We're tithing to God, not the pastor.  If we know the pastor is misusing the tithe, then I think we have a responsibility to stop tithing to that church.  In fact, if there's any question at all, I would certainly seek another church.  If you tithe in good faith and the pastor misuses it, then he's ultimately responsible to God, not you.  From what I understand, the pastor is supposed to take a set salary, not the whole tithe.  Now, I think what Mills said was that the church is really poor.  The people can't give much, and what they do give isn't enough to support the pastor.  In this case, the pastor needs to get an outside job...........at least part time anyway.  The pastor needs to take some responsibility here, too.  Well, these are just my thoughts.

Grace and peace,
cris

[GKB]

well said chris. either a job, or move in faith (not judging, just suggesting), let faith carry us to every blessing that we need. i do understand that the church is poor, and that does make a difference, and the pastor may need to be available to full time ministry....but i just believe that god will take care of his own and provide seed for the sower.

[Jeff Mills]

Well GKB I understand what you are saying but you perhaps need to come here and see the extreme poverty these people live in.   The pastor geta  job?   In this country?   The jobless here are about 80% of the people and the maximum wage is about $20 a month.  Hence, as i said as a misisonary I raise funds for him so that he can give himself full time to pastoring the people here.  Now in the Western World I might agree with you that a pastor should either work half day or have a fixed wage.   Maybe you would like to bring a group out here sometime and see for yourself what these people are up against. Murder, rape, drugs and a corrupt Government who just do not care.     This pastor is certainly worthy of his wages.   We would love to see you come some day, and this offer is open to any group.  Contact me on jeffmills@pobox.com any time.   Many blessings and I love these discussions.

[GKB]

mills, please do not be affended, its just that we "church people" have corrupted gods buisness so much that its hard to see whats what. i do believe there are poor conditions and for that reason i understand what you are doing. as long as it funds gods buisness and not mans, the tithe is fine for it. how do you collect monies if the maxium wage is 20 dollars a month? could the same faith that you do that with be used to supply every need?

p.s. i really do applaud the pastor and your work.

[Jeff Mills]

Hey GKB I am not at all offended and I apologize if it seemed that way.  Yes, God does provide for us as we walk in faith.  We are actually constructing a new building which has taken 2 years so far.  It would normally have been completed in 6 months but the Lord is teaching us faith.    How does the pastor live when the wages are so small?  Faith!  God keeps on providing in miraculous ways, the same as he keeps healing people in this church.  They can't afford doctors!  We just lay hands believe and they walk away healed.    We claim Psalm 23 The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not need.   I do not believe that tithing is new testament teaching by the way, because we ourselves are the Royal Priests!!   But we give generously out of love to the one who feeds the flock.

[GKB]

beatifully said mills,

i agree, it is such an honor to be in connection with real saints of the most high god, i began to believe that you all were extinct. very true about the tithe and the new testiment....so why do you think so many churches preach tithe... even that you can not be blessed unless you tithe?

[Jeff Mills]

Actually my name is Jeff but don't know how to change it on this programme!    Bad teaching and people  going by experience rather than the Word.   I have seen some rich "TV Christians" about but it is not my job to condemn them - the Lord will do that.  I just pray they will change their ways.  Meanwhile let's just get on with sharing the Gospel and giving funds where they can make a difference.    By the way.  My site is www.finalharvestministries.com
Be blessed and may the Lord open your spiritual eyes to so much more treasure!   Jeff
 

[GKB]

i receive your rebuke mills,

we ought to get on with spreading the gospel, so thats what i'll do....bless you mills, i will go check out your site.

[Jeff Mills]

No rebuke GKB my friend!   Be blessed this Advent!

[GKB]

why do we have such a hard time adopting the new testiment way of faith as it pertains to giving? why not just preach the word in season and out of season, and just have faith that  god will provide the increase? is it because we really do not have the kind of faith that was once delivered to the saints? is it because we really do not believe in the method that god chose, so to have a back up plan we call on the tithe method so that we can at least preach a minimum of ten percent....just in case we teach them to give from their hearts and it doesn't work out! how do we believe god if we don't trust him?