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Author Topic: Canada suicide hotline!!!!  (Read 3456 times)
Tibby
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« on: May 31, 2005, 05:59:22 PM »

Have you guys heard about this? What do you think?

Canada suicide hotline to open only from 9 to 5

TORONTO, May 25 (Reuters) - A Canadian province will shut its 24-hour suicide hotline and replace it with one that operates only during business hours.

Prince Edward Island, a small province on Canada's East Coast, says it is too expensive to operate the hotline around the clock. Starting June 1, it will be open only between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday through Friday.

The plan drew protest from mental health groups across the country on Wednesday.

"How many times, when you get upset or worried or concerned about things, is it in the middle of the day? It's usually at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning when you wake up," said Joan Wright, executive director of the Canadian Association for Suicide Prevention based in Edmonton, Alberta.

The hotline received about 1,400 calls a year and about 50 were from people contemplating suicide, health groups said.

"One of the things I was hearing is the government felt there weren't enough suicide-related calls," Wright said.

Prince Edward Island, Canada's smallest province with a population of about 137,000 people, is trying to tame its budget deficit. The hotline cost about C$30,000 ($24,000) a year to run.

"It's a very small amount of money in our view," said Reid Burke, executive director of the Canadian Mental Health Association.

"(Given) the economic cost of a suicide, if governments pay attention to dollars and numbers, not what happens to people, it just doesn't make sense."


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050526/od_nm/canada_suicide_dc
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N25220780.htm
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JudgeNot
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 12:18:04 AM »

Canada is a socialist society, so this makes since to the ruling “majority” (yea –right) of Canadians.

Liberal-humanist's agree that euthanasia is a fair reality.  If someone is so useless to society as to seek suicide, then to the hunanists, it is no different than darwin's "thinning of the herd".  This is simply 'natural selection' - with of course, the liberal humanist's as the 'natural predators' (the elite who determine who lives and who "dies").  The humanists are up to the job – if you don’t believe me just ask them.  

It’s the same in the US - Terrie Schiavo:  useless to the socialist agenda therefore better dead.

May God have mercy on the souls of those who believe they have the power of Him.

Whereas the central Christian theme is to save lives (beginning with your own) the central theme of humanism is to get rid of the worthless to make room for the worthwhile.  

To us as Christians, the lives of the “yet-to-be-out-of-the-womb-human” are just as important as the “20-year-olds-who-we-must-stop-from-killing-themselves” as the “85-year-olds-whose-contributions-of-wisdom-cannot-be-replaced”.  
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Tibby
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 12:27:48 AM »

Yeah, they take their Socialism from England... don't get me started... Angry I hate Socialism and all the Post-Modernist philosophy that is it based on.  Angry Angry Angry
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M
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 10:44:28 AM »

The people who answered the phones at the suicide hotline are trained volunteers.

Please use another example to criticize the Canadian government.  
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Tibby
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2005, 12:55:27 PM »

What are you tryign to say?  Huh
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M
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2005, 01:43:14 PM »

If a Canadian in Canada attempts suicide, they will be rushed by ambulance to an emergency hospital room, receive emergency treatment which will be followed up with in hospital care and out-patient care all:  FREE of charge.

Depressed Canadians in Canada can go to their doctor and receive counselling and medication, referrals to psychiatrists and other health professionals all:  FREE of charge.  

The suicide hotlines are answered by trained volunteers.  The government funding is for facilities and other expenses.  If the hotline centers were properly run, they would keep accurate records of when and who calls for assistance.  Hopefully the volunteers would not be just sitting there bored, chatting to their friends, but helping to save lives.  If the hotlines do not receive government funding for the center, the space/facilities could be donated or funds raised by charity.

I disagree with the decision to only to run the hotlines during business hours since I would think that they would get the most calls at night.  But if their records show that no suicides were prevented or few calls were related to suicide, why not spend funds in a more helpful way.  The article in no way tries to indicate that the Canadian government wishes people to succeed at killing themselves.  In fact, they have many mental health programmes aimed at recognizing the signs of depression and urging people to seek treatment.  

It is a double tragedy to have a young woman finding herself pregnant and alone to seek suicide as a solution.  However, they are many places were depressed people can seek help besides suicide hotlines.  
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Tibby
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2005, 02:05:18 PM »

Of the Canadians in Canada attempts suicide, and get rushed by ambulance to an emergency hospital room, receive emergency treatment which will be followed up with in hospital care and out-patient care all FREE of charge, how many of them are discovered my the Hotline? Canadian is not yet socialist enough to have brain scaner implanted that tell the hospital they need help, M. Help needs to be informed of the pantient in need before they can get them, and most of the helps knowledge comes from the hotline, which is not off during the hours when it is most needed.


How many Depressed Canadians in Canada go to their doctor and receive counselling and medication, referrals to psychiatrists and other health professionals all FREE of charge? Most people in the state of mind where they wish to commit suicide do not seek help. Most of them need to have help forced upon them. Becides, I don't know of ANY Doctors offices open before 9 or after 5. So we still have the same problem.

I realize suicide hotlines are answered by trained volunteers, but what does this have to do with anything? You keep saying that like is means something? What is wrong with volunteers?

No one ever said the article tries to indicate that the Canadian government wishes people to succeed at killing themselves.
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 08:54:07 AM »

I suggest you read all the replyies to this post again, carefully.  

Some simple mathematical calculations show that 1500 calls per year is an average of 4 calls per day (24 hr period).  50 calls were actually suicide related.  Other sources I had read show that 20% of suicide related calls are clergy or people calling about someone other than themselves.  That means an average of 40 calls per year were received from people that were suicidal.  Do you think that in an area where 137,000 people live, that cost of keeping the centre open is a good use of money?  (wait before forming a counter attack)

Not all depressed people are suicidal but the effects are felt by co-workers, family and friends of the victims of depression.  I think it would be more compassionate and a better use of money to educate people about depression and suicide.  These are the kinds of decisions that government has to make.  While suicide hotlines can effective in preventing deaths and suffering, PEI might better use their limited resources.

I said "I disagree with the decision to only to run the hotlines during business hours since I would think that they would get the most calls at night."   What can't you understand about that opinion?

The other person posting had the opinion that "socialist" governments, like the ones in Canada, are humanist and have no interest in compassion.  This is truly and completely false.  Canada's health system is compassion and accessible to all citizens.   In fact, abortion is not available on the island of PEI, Canada.  

As an emergency services worker, you will encounter people who will refuse treatment when the ambulance arrives at the scene.  You will have to wait until they are unconscious to take them to the hospital.  

Depending on the laws, some doctors are allowed to commit someone against their will when they have threatened their own life or another persons.  There are doctor's available 24 hrs.  Most of the problem is that family and friends need to recognize the signs and symptoms of depression.  They also need to know what to do when someone talks about killing themselves.  

I find your replies extremely rude, and even amusing.  

"Canadian (Canada) is not yet socialist enough to have (a) brain scaner (scanner) implanted that tell the hosptial they need help"  

Why not use the artice as an opportunity to educate and express compassion about suicide and depression?
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Tibby
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 01:20:20 PM »

I suggest you read all the replyies to this post again, carefully.  

Some simple mathematical calculations show that 1500 calls per year is an average of 4 calls per day (24 hr period).  50 calls were actually suicide related.  Other sources I had read show that 20% of suicide related calls are clergy or people calling about someone other than themselves.  That means an average of 40 calls per year were received from people that were suicidal.  Do you think that in an area where 137,000 people live, that cost of keeping the centre open is a good use of money?  (wait before forming a counter attack)

Not all depressed people are suicidal but the effects are felt by co-workers, family and friends of the victims of depression.  I think it would be more compassionate and a better use of money to educate people about depression and suicide.  These are the kinds of decisions that government has to make.  While suicide hotlines can effective in preventing deaths and suffering, PEI might better use their limited resources.

Mathematical calculations, exactly, that is the problem.  The Post-Modernists LOVE to limit human limit to a number, a stat. We are much more then that, my friend. The calculations are correct, but your philosophy could use a little work. What does a human life cost, M? What is it worth to you? Can you give me a calculation for that?


Quote
I said "I disagree with the decision to only to run the hotlines during business hours since I would think that they would get the most calls at night."   What can't you understand about that opinion?

I understood that from the first post. What I don't understand is why you say you agree, then try to debate. Why are you making excuses for the Canadian Government?


Quote
The other person posting had the opinion that "socialist" governments, like the ones in Canada, are humanist and have no interest in compassion.  This is truly and completely false.  Canada's health system is compassion and accessible to all citizens.   In fact, abortion is not available on the island of PEI, Canada.

Well, that is socialism for you. The give a little help to people, but as a whole, they are only interested in the mathematical calculations in the end.


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As an emergency services worker, you will encounter people who will refuse treatment when the ambulance arrives at the scene.  You will have to wait until they are unconscious to take them to the hospital.  

Not in America. That is called Kidnapping. If they are unconscious when we get there, the applied consent rule is in effect, and we can treat them. However, if the parents is conscious, and refuse kid, and are of sound mind, we can't do a thing. All we can do it try to talk them into going, explaining what they may have, and how it may hurt them, etc. People have a right to refuse care.


Quote
Depending on the laws, some doctors are allowed to commit someone against their will when they have threatened their own life or another persons.  There are doctor's available 24 hrs.  Most of the problem is that family and friends need to recognize the signs and symptoms of depression.  They also need to know what to do when someone talks about killing themselves.  

I'm not to such about the Psychological industries laws in America, but I think they can do this as well.


Quote
I find your replies extremely rude, and even amusing.  

Well, then, sorry for being rude, and your welcome for the amusement. I don't know why they where either, but ok... Roll Eyes


Quote
"Canadian (Canada) is not yet socialist enough to have (a) brain scaner (scanner) implanted that tell the hosptial they need help"  

Why not use the artice as an opportunity to educate and express compassion about suicide and depression?

Ooohhhh, I see you found a few typo's. Good for you. Thanks for the correction. Would you like me to correct yours for you? You have a few errorsm as well. I have a coding disorder, what's your excuse? Wink  I await your "replyies." Maybe you can write a whole "artice" next time about it. Tongue Grin
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 01:37:25 PM »

Let's not get into personal attacks people.

Since they are worried about the costs of things, I am sure that they can get enough volunteers to cover the phones. There is no need for a building center so their overhead would be quite low. One phone/phones could be set up with call forwarding to the volunteers phone lines. This would bring the cost of this program down tremendously and still keep it in action.

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 04:57:10 PM »

Thats what we are trying to say, it is not that expensive to run something like you mention, and even if it is, and even if the place only saves one life a month, can we really put a price on that life?

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 05:36:38 PM »

Thats what we are trying to say, it is not that expensive to run something like you mention, and even if it is, and even if the place only saves one life a month, can we really put a price on that life?



I agree with you, Tibby. We cannot place a value on human life. It is the point that I tried to make with you on another thread. (Did I get through?)   Smiley Smiley

If there is a money crunch, which there sometimes is, there is always a way to get around that and keep viable programs working. Saving even one life is always a viable, worthwhile program.

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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2005, 05:42:46 PM »

My point was not that human life isn't important in that last post, my point was... nevermind (not again) Grin

Socialize Healthcare is about the nubmers, not the people, and that is the problem with Socialize Healthcare: Healthcare should be about the people! Some of these American are always talking about how great Socialize Healthcare, but I'd love to see them try and get open heart in Canada or England. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2005, 02:42:52 AM »

As a general point Tibby, I think you should perhaps try and learn a little about a topic before you begin to spew your opinions.  Your posts, on this topic anyway, seem to be based more on your rabid ideologies, and what you think you know, rather than any truth.

Your comment about "open heart", about which I can only assume you mean open heart surgery, betrays this tendency. The fact is, Canadians have full access to some of the most gifted cardiologists in the world, who perform flawless bypasses on a daily basis.  I'm really not sure where you are getting your ideas, but they certainly not based on any fact.

cheers,

Jimmy
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2005, 09:16:58 AM »

The Canadian health system, while not perfect, does work.  It is quite fair for all Canadians.  

The system is set up so that all Canadians, regardless of where they live or their income have reasonable access to health care that they need.  There are some problems in accessing health care in remote and underpopulated regions, such as the Arctic.   Where there are no roads, everything has to be flown in or out by bush plane.  There are some waits for non-emergency surgery but people are getting what they need.  Toronto, for example, has many excellent hospitals.  The children's hospital in Toronto is excellent and gives equal treatment for all children regardless of their family income.  It does work and that is because Canadians want it to work.  Perhaps Americans do not think this type of system would work in their country because they already have so much greed and corruption in their present health care system and they are so used to having their politicians lie to them.  

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