A thread for Alice!

[2nd Timothy]

Alice,

This wont bring back all the responses that you had before, but I wanted to make sure we keep touching base with you.   If you have questions about salvation/truth/doubts feel free to post them here.

We are still praying for you, and want you to feel welcome here.  

Grace and Peace!

[alice]

I am GENUINELY touched by the love and compassion that I've seen here.
Even though some people have been less than welcoming, in the main, the response to my posts and the dialogue I've had with many people has been very rewarding and engaging.

I'm still turning all this stuff around in my head, trying to find a way to put it all together that makes sense to me.

2nd Timothy, thank you SO much for your kindness and generosity of spirit. If there is a God, I'm sure that He would be proud of the way you give of yourself to others, and the manner in which you do it.

Love


Alice

[2nd Timothy]

Alice,

you are welcome!   I like musiclover and others here feel a strong burden for you, and do not take it lightly when someone is searching for Gods truth.   I lost a friend sometime ago who commited suicided.  He and I talked a good deal about God, heaven, hell, etc. casually, and I never really felt urgency in the matter.   I always wonder if there was something more I could have done to share Gods Love with him than I did.   Not that I feel any blame for his choice to take his own life, or that I think you are on a similar path. But it is a constant reminder to me not to take lightly those around me who do not know the Lord, and may be searching for answers.  

I don't take lightly your quest for truth, and I also do not believe it is by chance that you have come to CU.  God does not take it lightly either, and I feel a pressing burden for you as others here do.

We are still praying for you and want to help in any way that we can to help you find the Lord and His truth and how much He really Loves you Alice.

Grace and Peace!

[nChrist]

Alice,

I did NOT delete the thread, and I wish that I had copies of it, but I don't. There were many beautiful posts in that thread from sweet Christians trying to help you. Many of them obviously involved a lot of time and effort from people who love you and want to share the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL WITH YOU.

I'm praying that some folks have copies of their posts and can repost them here. I don't have copies of my own posts in that thread. I know that you probably don't like me very much, specificially because I enforced the forum rules on the theory of evolution. However, I still love you and want to share Jesus with you. I can start over with my posts attempting to do that if you wish.

There is LOVE in Jesus,
Tom

[Yoyostick]

I don't have any of my posts, unfortunately.

Alice, you mentioned some people weren't very welcoming. Hopefully I wasn't one of them.  

I'm still praying for you.

[felix102]

Hey Alice. I got your email. Sorry it took so long. I had a couple of difficulties, time and bad computer. I thought it would be a good idea to post what I have here so other people can further add on more info.

How do I reconcile the bible with scientific reasoning? Or how do I have both faith and reason?  Or how can I believe in 2 things that seem to directly contradict each other? These are very good and popular questions. There are many many approaches, perspectives, and explanations for these questions. I'll do my best to convey and guide you to the answers you need! Also, I plan on emailing you some articles that will provide you with more insight. There have been many people who have written a lot of stuff on this. If you look around on the net, you're bound to find the answers you need.

First, the core of this question "how do I manage to reconcile the bible with science" most likely stems from the thought that concepts in the bible were arbitrarily made up to explain
things that we don't understand while scientific reasoning first observes what is occuring and then attempts to explain this occurence based on what was observed. So the most basic proposition is this: I am searching for the truth...but will I believe the bible just because it proposes that it is true OR will I believe science because it uses thinking to arrive to truth? Most people in their right mind would pick the latter. Me included! So why would I still believe in the bible? What is wrong here?

The notion that if you believe in the bible then you must also be blinding accepting its truths is misleading. First of all, the bible does not propose any truths. It is more like a history book telling us what happened. A science book is based on facts that leads to explanations on how and why things occur. It is Science that proposes truths. In essence, history precedes science because science is based on the facts of what happens (history). So the bible is a book that tells us what happened, it is not proposing anything as science does. So the whole bible vs. Science is completely irrelevant. The bible does not try to prove anything. It is technically incorrect to question the bible as you question science. Some people will say "Science is backed by concrete evidence to support what it proves, on the other hand, the bible has no concrete or observable evidence to support what it says."
This is an invalid statement. For instance, do you ever question your history books? There is no concrete or observable evidence to back its claim but the author alone. YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT ON THE AUTHOR'S WORD THAT WHAT HE HAS RECORDED IS TRUE. To put that in a better perspective, you must have FAITH in the author. This is the difference between a science book and the bible.

The only true conflict is found only in a small part of the bible, not against the entire bible. This is in Genesis, on how the universe was created. The whole conflict is only about one small part of the bible! Many people have tried to figure out how the earth was created in 6 days. Many secular scientists and people simply don't accept that. Some people, including Christians, have rationalized many different ideas. Some say that perhaps that the creation was not literally done in six days, but instead each day was equal to a thousand years or something (gap theory). This idea may come from the psalm "To God a thousand years are like one day, and one day is like a thousand years." Another theory is simply that God is omnipotent and can do absolutely anything. Hovind proves that the bible is correct in that the earth was created in six days literally in his Hovind Theory. This, so far, is the best theory that supports that the creation did take place under six days. This is a very detailed theory. You can find this at www.drdino.com

I hope this takes care of "science vs. the bible." There is still more to come and I know this does not answer every question nor satisfy the ultimate questions such as: How can I believe in something that I do not know exists? Why do I believe in Christianity in particular? How can I hang my entire life and existence on the belief of Jesus?


In fact, just clarifying the issue between science vs. bible does not tell you why we should believe in the bible yet. I'll get to that asap! I know that there are also others here who have a lot to say about it too. I know there have been many many threads pertaining to this issue in this forum. I'll dig up some old posts and post them here again.

Hovind's theory (called the Hovind Theory) is very good. It is somewhere in the drdino.com site. You can also get dvds or video tapes of it. I have the set of videotapes. From a strictly scientific standpoint, I cannot yet disaprove anything from his theories (disaproving theories is what scientist are suppose to do). I will post still try posting the theory here in case you cant find it.

[musicllover]

Alice,

I did NOT delete the thread, and I wish that I had copies of it, but I don't. There were many beautiful posts in that thread from sweet Christians trying to help you. Many of them obviously involved a lot of time and effort from people who love you and want to share the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL WITH YOU.

I'm praying that some folks have copies of their posts and can repost them here. I don't have copies of my own posts in that thread. I know that you probably don't like me very much, specificially because I enforced the forum rules on the theory of evolution. However, I still love you and want to share Jesus with you. I can start over with my posts attempting to do that if you wish.

There is LOVE in Jesus,
Tom

I'm a little slow, I kept searching and couldn't find the thread, how in the world did it just diappear?
I know some will roll there eyes but I wonder, does the devil have computer knowledge?

musicllover

[musicllover]

I am GENUINELY touched by the love and compassion that I've seen here.
Even though some people have been less than welcoming, in the main, the response to my posts and the dialogue I've had with many people has been very rewarding and engaging.

I'm still turning all this stuff around in my head, trying to find a way to put it all together that makes sense to me.

2nd Timothy, thank you SO much for your kindness and generosity of spirit. If there is a God, I'm sure that He would be proud of the way you give of yourself to others, and the manner in which you do it.

Love


Alice

ALICE,
      WOW am I glad to see you, the quirks of cyber space. Anyway, I am glad that you haven't disappeared too... ...... I've not stopped praying for you. While tryin to study for some major tests next week, I keep your name on the tip of my tongue you seem for ever in my heart its weird kinda like a process of grieving but there is hope too, I may pray nothing more than "Lord be with ALice right now at she comes to decisions". But I KNOW he is hearing me, God doesn't want to loose even one.......
      I have no copies of my post to you, I sure wish I did just in case that would have helped. But anyway, maybe if you asked the question you had for going back thru and reading the deleted thread we can start again.
         
OK back to algebra.....I am having a terrilbe time getting a few of these problems and I pray Jesus would come down and finish my home work  ....well ok, then give me the understanding of how to do it. AMEN
blessings,
musicllover

[nChrist]

I'm a little slow, I kept searching and couldn't find the thread, how in the world did it just disappear?
I know some will roll there eyes but I wonder, does the devil have computer knowledge?

musicllover

Oklahoma Howdy to MusicLover,

As far as I know, there are only three ways to delete a thread on Christians Unite:  (1) ADMIN, (2) One of the moderators, (3) The person who started the thread.

I'm almost certain that nobody has hacked into Christians Unite. On the other side of the coin, I'm certain that many have tried. In fact, there was a time that hackers completely crashed Christians Unite and we started over. As far as I know, ADMIN has made it extremely difficult for that to happen again. I think that the worst we have seen is spam-bots slowing the system down. I'm positive that the devil would love to destroy Christians Unite. Many thousands of Christian web sites receive material from Christians Unite every day, so I'm absolutely positive that the devil has no appreciation at all for what ADMIN is doing.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[felix102]

So we must know that the bible is a collection of scriptures on historical events, the gospel, wisdom books, prophets, epistles (letters), and stories. To get an idea of what the bible is about is simple: just read it. The bible has an active voice while science is expressed in a passive voice.

Bible:
"God loved us so much, that while we were still sinners He died for us."

Science:
"To distinguish among samples of different kinds of matter, we determine and compare their properites."

What we have established is that our belief in the bible is based on faith that it is true. This is the same for any history book or auto-biography. If you were to believe in it, then you must have faith in the author. This almost sounds absurd that I am saying you must have faith in the author of an auto-biography. We automatically accept that the historical accounts we find in the history books are true, no questions asked. Yet, for most people, the bible is not treated the same way though it is actually the same basic thing.We find that science is different. It is something that is based on reason. So the conflict "bible vs science" comes to light in a different form: "faith vs reason."

This brings us to the question "How do I have both faith and reason?"...."Does reason (science) succede faith?" You will be very surprised at the conclusion of this one.

[Allinall]

First, let me just say how it does my heart good to see this.  I go away for a few days with a burden I shared with Tim and musiclover, and come back to find it being shared by many others.  

See alice?  God cares enough for you to bring these people into your life and share His love with you.  

[alice]

I am really trying to understand a defferent way to look at all of this but I am finding it very hard. I replied privately to some of Felix's comments but I didn't want to upset anyone here by posting my thoughts on the forum. I just can't seem to make it all add up.

[2nd Timothy]

I am really trying to understand a defferent way to look at all of this but I am finding it very hard. I replied privately to some of Felix's comments but I didn't want to upset anyone here by posting my thoughts on the forum. I just can't seem to make it all add up.

I think the problem you are having is that you can't fit God into a mold.   You are hanging onto your belief system desparately trying to fit God into it.   I promise you that this will never work, even though I admire you desire to make God work.   The truth is, the only way for God to work is by faith!   I know thats not the answer you want, but that is the only answer in which God will work.

Only God can make it all add up, and until you willing to rely totally on that, you will continue to be confounded by trying.

Grace and Peace!

[Shammu]

I am really trying to understand a defferent way to look at all of this but I am finding it very hard. I replied privately to some of Felix's comments but I didn't want to upset anyone here by posting my thoughts on the forum. I just can't seem to make it all add up.

Alice, your mind will lead you astray. Follow your heart as to the scripture posted by the others. God works through your heart, not the head. As long as you use your head it will never "add up."

Through the Grace of God, go in peace.
DW

[Yoyostick]

Alice, I think things will make more sense after you trust God. Faith is always the guiding factor, then the evidence really starts falling in place. You can't expect to make everything add up before you have faith, because there is a devil who wants to confuse you. He's trying to mess you up because you're interested. If you keep trying to figure it out yourself, you will only get more confused. Faith is the answer.

Let faith guide you, and keep seeking and knocking. You will find.