Re:Losing salvation?

[Brother Love]

There are, however, MANY, MANY, christians who claim to be Christians who do NOT have the Holy Spirit in them

Ananias was a Christian and he had the Holy Spirit in him.

Ananias IS NOT IN HELL, he is in H-E-A-V-E-N

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That is not for you to decide!

But I wouldn't recommend lying to the Holy Spirit or the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to anyone with any assurity that you would not lose your salvation.

For Sure That is not for you to decide!

I only believe what the Word of God says.

Not "your" religion


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[Brother Love]

And who do you think leads us to repentence, Michael? The devil? Your wonderful, intelligent, glorious self? In your dreams!

[michael_legna]

And who do you think leads us to repentence, Michael? The devil? Your wonderful, intelligent, glorious self? In your dreams!

Grace leads us but we must agree to follow otherwise it would be a menaingless repentance.

[AJ]

One of the best scriptures in the Bible on losing your salvation is right here, also right from the Lords mouth, and he never took this saying back...it stands true. Why? because i was one of these. But i turned back to God and he had mercy on me. Thats right... i had to ask him to forgive me of this horrible mistake....and it was hell trying to get back to my savior. So dont mess with Gods grace or he will let you go and drink your own vomit. Many are called but few are chosen, and few find it and keep it. Many shall come and sit in the kingdom of God, but many of his children will be cast out...there will be crying and grinding of teeth. Remember that.


Mat 13:3  And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
Mat 13:4  And when he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5  Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6  And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7  And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8  But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Mat 13:18  Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19  When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20  But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22  He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23  But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.



This is what happend to me...if we dont walk in the spirit we die

Mat 13:22  He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

So there it is, being saved for a time.... then losing it. And dont try to tell me i wasnt saved to begin with, i was very saved and very full of the Holy Spirit. As i am right now as well, God is very merciful...but Jesus said, i tell you this, accept you repent you will all likewise perish.

[His_child]

What is done is that Jesus Christ made the supreme sacrifice for our sins by His death. He paid the price in FULL, once and for all.  It's over. Once we believe this, we are saved. Belief comes from the Holy Spirit, not from hoping and praying he did it, but from KNOWING it.

So what happens if you decide you no longer believe it or you no longer want the gift of Salvation?

[Matt]

I'm still waiting for your answers to my questions. This doesn't only go for Heidi, but for the others that believe once-saved-always-saved as well. Obviously none of you think that those verses are wrong, so you must therefore have another explaination. I want to hear it and understand what you think.

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

-waiting, Matt

[His_child]

I'm still waiting for your answers to my questions. This doesn't only go for Heidi, but for the others that believe once-saved-always-saved as well. Obviously none of you think that those verses are wrong, so you must therefore have another explaination. I want to hear it and understand what you think.

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

-waiting, Matt

Waitin' with ya!

[His_child]

HisChild, do you know what the "fruits of the SPIRIT" means? The fruits of the SPIRIT means that faith, love, forgiveness, patience, etc. come from the SPIRIT, not our glorious selves. Once the Holy Spirit enters us, NO ONE can snatch us out of HIS HAND because the Holy Spirit is stronger than the devil. Many don't believe that the Holy spirit is stronger than their own free will. They give credit for their salvation to their ABILITY to CHOOSE to believe. They haven't a clue that if God hardens our hearts, then WILD HORSES CANNOT make us believe, and if the Holy Spirit is in us, then NO ONE CAN SNATCH US OUT OF HIS HAND. That's whay Jesus said that we have to be born again of water and the spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven, because belief without the SPIRIT has not root. An excellent example is; how can you both know someone exists and NOT know it at the same time? Belief that comes from the SPIRIT is a knowledge that surpasses all human understanding because we have met Christ in the flesh through the Holy Spirit. That's why Jesus said; "Now this is eternal life; that you know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He sent." It is also why He said that those who call him "Lord" and do wonderful works, like prophesy, cast out demons in his name, and perform many miracles will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven because he never KNEW them. We must KNOW christ personally through the Holy Spirit for our belief to be real. And because the Holy Spirit in us NEVER goes away, NO ONE can snatch us out of His hand.

Yes I know what the fruits of the Spirit means.

I never realized that we could judge the hearts of man.

If your view is correct, then Christians do not sin. They can't because God wouldn't allow them to. After all, He takes away their free will.

How very Calvinistic of you.  

[Shwa]

I believe fully that once you are saved you are always saved.  But I have run into a problem with a good friend of mine, who is set in the ways of the Church of Christ, so he believes you can lose your salvation.  I haven't talked much about it to him, but I am 100 percent sure I can prove to him that you are not saved by works and sinning before you die without asking forgiveness will not get you into Hell.  The problem is, he still believes that once you are saved by faith in Christ Jesus, if you have been proven wrong otherwise by some other means, you can lose salvation.  So if you become saved, but later in life are faced with something that is good enough to convince you that Jesus did not die for our sins, you can lose salvation.  That's hard to argue with, even if you do disagree with it.  Is it possible to lose faith?  There are several verses saying that people will "abandon the faith."  What should I say to this guy to convince him that salvation cannot be lost?

[Reba]

I believe fully that once you are saved you are always saved.  But I have run into a problem with a good friend of mine, who is set in the ways of the Church of Christ, so he believes you can lose your salvation.  I haven't talked much about it to him, but I am 100 percent sure I can prove to him that you are not saved by works and sinning before you die without asking forgiveness will not get you into Hell.  The problem is, he still believes that once you are saved by faith in Christ Jesus, if you have been proven wrong otherwise by some other means, you can lose salvation.  So if you become saved, but later in life are faced with something that is good enough to convince you that Jesus did not die for our sins, you can lose salvation.  That's hard to argue with, even if you do disagree with it.  Is it possible to lose faith?  There are several verses saying that people will "abandon the faith."  What should I say to this guy to convince him that salvation cannot be lost?

When it really matters he will know.  

[Evangelist]

Ananias IS NOT IN HELL, he is in H-E-A-V-E-N

Here is a link to a story concerning a burial cave found near Bethany that contained a number of ossuaries (bone boxes), which were inscribed with various names and crosses and other markings related to Christianity and Christ.  Included among the boxes was one marked with a cross, and the name "shappira", or Saphira. Although Ananias did not have a bone box there (at least by name), one could reasonably assume that if Saphira made it, so did he....and I seriously doubt the owners of the cave (believed to be the family of Lazarus, Martha and Mary) would have allowed a heathen to be buried with them.

Besides......scriptures plainly states that Ananias (along with Saphira and other believers) BELIEVED.

He just had a bad moment.......ain't it GRAND that our bad moments don't rob us of the wonderful gift of GRACE!! If that were true, heaven would be totally empty!!

http://masterstable.john812.com/archives/jerusalemburial.htm

[ollie]

If one can not fall from grace then why are we admonished not to throw stumblingblocks in the path of a weaker brother or sister?

Did anyone answer this question?


A4C says:
"The scriptures teach that we are secure in Christ and that nothing, not even our own unbelief, can separate us from the love of God once we have trusted in Christ's sacrifice for our sin. (Rom 8:33-39; Phil 1:6; 2 Tim 2:11-13)"

If one is trusting in Christ how can one be in unbelief? How does unbelief bring trust? Are you saying one can stop believing in Christ's sacrifice and still be saved because one once trusted in Christ's sacrifice?

Ollie

[Jemidon2004]

If one is trusting in Christ then one can't be in unbelief because the root word of trust in the OT is the same as the new testament word to "Believe"...just a thought...

Joshua

[Evangelist]

Ollie:

if one is trusting in Christ how can one be in unbelief?

I can trust in Christ for my salvation because of His sacrifice, and not believe (not be sure) where He says
Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows
also see the following.

How does unbelief bring trust?

Mar 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief

Are you saying one can stop believing in Christ's sacrifice and still be saved because one once trusted in Christ's sacrifice?

Having once believed (in truth), can one really stop believing? Or is that just a question posed by the enemy to cause confusion, anger, doubt?

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

I know that God is God. I know that He has done everything to reconcile me with Him. I know that He is in charge. And even when I do not have understanding, and cry, and moan, and rail against circumstances, He remains faithful to Himself, and keeps me.

I'd really be in a heap of trouble if I had to rely upon myself for anything....especially holding on to belief.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

[Allinall]

Ollie:

if one is trusting in Christ how can one be in unbelief?

I can trust in Christ for my salvation because of His sacrifice, and not believe (not be sure) where He says
Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows
also see the following.

How does unbelief bring trust?

Mar 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief

Are you saying one can stop believing in Christ's sacrifice and still be saved because one once trusted in Christ's sacrifice?

Having once believed (in truth), can one really stop believing? Or is that just a question posed by the enemy to cause confusion, anger, doubt?

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

I know that God is God. I know that He has done everything to reconcile me with Him. I know that He is in charge. And even when I do not have understanding, and cry, and moan, and rail against circumstances, He remains faithful to Himself, and keeps me.

I'd really be in a heap of trouble if I had to rely upon myself for anything....especially holding on to belief.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

AAAAMEN!!![/b]