DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 19, 2024, 06:18:25 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
286798 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  ChristiansUnite Forums
|-+  Theology
| |-+  Prophecy - Current Events (Moderator: admin)
| | |-+  The Mid-Trib Rapture
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Mid-Trib Rapture  (Read 9527 times)
AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2004, 01:41:47 AM »

AJ.

 Could you please clairify exactly when you believe the Rapture takes place, and please give me all relative verses.
 I'm not exactly sure what your beliefs are in relation to the timeline.

Thanks my friend.

 
 Bronzesnake.


Did you read my study? I think you did? I explained this all before Smiley I should have said there are two Raptures above... one we call the Rapture or Harvest ,the other is called the resurrection... there is also a Rapture at the resurrection, where the ones who are alive and remain (The Woman in the Wilderness-- Jews) is caught up to meet Jesus in the air, this is where the last trump sounds...and Jesus takes the beast and false prophet and the saints take the kingdom with Christ. The Manchild was caught up to God 3 1/2 years before this...the begining of Jacobs Trouble.

This is what i see the prophecies saying...i maybe incorrect on some of this, but not much...and if a man says he has it all understood he is not being true to himself. This is a very hard study... these prophecies are like parables we need to try and understand them. Daniel was told to shut up the book because the angel told him that knowledge would increase and many would run to and fro...i believe this is happening now. Its just a matter of time and the holy spirit will reveal all this too the Church...will they all believe? probably not.

Now questions for you...you ask who is this man that John is talking too?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.  

Here's John, in Heaven and who is he talking too? Is it Jesus? no. Is it an angel? no. It's a man "I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus" What is a man doing in Heaven at this time? This means that the Rapture has already taken place before the second coming.

Does it?

Who rose from the dead when Jesus did? Prophets? not sure. were they given new bodys? Yes. did they go to heaven after their resurrection? Yes. Why? because we also see that Paul had a hard time with some who kept saying the resurrection had already taken place. Were they resurrected before John was caught up to heaven? Yes. As we see these people were in Heaven before John, as he sees them as soon as he gets there...over 2000 years ago.

Still not debateing Wink and still love you too brother. Im Also still praying and studying this...this is the only way.

Amen brother... God bless you
Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2004, 01:09:41 PM »

Quote
Who rose from the dead when Jesus did? Prophets? not sure. were they given new bodys? Yes. did they go to heaven after their resurrection? Yes. Why? because we also see that Paul had a hard time with some who kept saying the resurrection had already taken place. Were they resurrected before John was caught up to heaven? Yes. As we see these people were in Heaven before John, as he sees them as soon as he gets there...over 2000 years ago.

 We can not assume that these men went to Heaven after they finally died AJ. They did not get "new bodies" in the sense of the resurrection bodies that we receive in Heaven. Those bodies are eternal. So the resurrected men from the New Testament only got their own human bodies restored temporarily, they walked into the city and gave wittiness to Jesus. They were not "Raptured" into Heaven, but rather, they would be included in the group of " the dead in Christ" who are all Raptured together along with those Christians who are alive at the end times when the Rapture occurs.

 Why would some saints get Raptured before others?

John says there is a specific "hour" for all the dead in Christ to be Raptured. Resurrection and Rapture are two completely different things AJ. Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead, and he lived a while longer, then eventually he died again and returned to the grave. He will be risen up and out of his grave along with the rest of the dead in Christ at the actual Rapture.

 Look at what John says...

 Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.  


 Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,  

 He says there is a specific time when all who are dead will be raised.


 Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


 As you probably know, Revelation is in chronological order, although some instances from early verses mimic other later verses in order to show what is happening in Heaven while specific events are unfolding on earth, however, it does not confuse the chronological order.

 So from Rev 4 we can deduce that the resurrection has taken place, as well as the Bema Judgement, because we can see there are actually men in Heaven at that time who are wearing crowns, and men who have been washed clean as we can clearly see they are "clothed in white raiment".

  Therefore, the Rapture does occur chronologically before any wrath or tribulation. One would have to ignore this evidence in order to come to any other conclusion. How do you explain away the following verses...

Rev 4:4 And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.  

 By the way, there's nothing wrong with debating God's Word, how else are we supposed to work out our problems with understanding what our omniscient, omnipotent Father is telling us? Wink

 Bless you my friend.
Bronzesnake.

 
Logged
AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2004, 04:58:18 PM »

Hi again Grin Ok lets look at it this way then, John said he was caught up to heaven on the lords day... did the lords day happen yet?No he also seen these 24 Elders when he got there. He even seen the Second Coming... does this mean that it had already happened when John was caught up to heaven 2000 years ago? No...John was seeing the 24 Elders in the hearafter...Pre-Trib says the Church was Raptured before John seen the hearafter, some say hearafter the Church... then why did John see the 24 Elders in the hearafter if they represent the Church? Its simple John was seeing the future when he was caught to heaven, so he seen all these things in the now for him...but in the hearafter for us...so John being caught up to heaven was the now for him then he showed us the hearafter for the Church. John being caught up to heaven is not the rapture...and this is the Pre-Trib teaching.

Rev 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be (hereafter).
Rev 4:2  And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3  And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 4:4  And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Also 24 Elders dont make a great multitude, and John also seen them, this has to be the church because it says they came out of the Great Tribulation. But not the 7 year Tribulation. So this is Mid-Trib...theres no way to get around this group...24 Elders dont make a Raptured Church, a Raptured Body of Christ would make a great multitude...plain and simple.

Praise the lord brother Smiley you say i we cant assume... but you make all kinds of them.

We can not assume that these men went to Heaven after they finally died AJ. They did not get "new bodies" in the sense of the resurrection bodies that we receive in Heaven. Those bodies are eternal. So the resurrected men from the New Testament only got their own human bodies restored temporarily

They did not get "new bodies" in the sense of the resurrection bodies?... says who?


So the resurrected men from the New Testament only got their own human bodies restored temporarily?...says who again? Smiley


Anyway brother i see your mind is set on Pre-Trib...mine is on Mid-Trib ...we will have to agree to disagree i quess,
but it was nice talking to you brother...may the Lord keep you and bless you always.

Amen Smiley


« Last Edit: May 26, 2004, 05:27:55 PM by AJ » Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2004, 01:53:28 AM »

Quote
Anyway brother i see your mind is set on Pre-Trib...mine is on Mid-Trib ...we will have to agree to disagree i quess,
but it was nice talking to you brother...may the Lord keep you and bless you always

 Good enough my friend.
 I'll see you in the clouds...PRE-TRIB! The first round of mana is on you my brother! Grin

 Bronzesnake
Logged
Shammu
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 34862


B(asic) I(nstructions) B(efore) L(eaving) E(arth)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2004, 06:47:18 AM »

Quote
Anyway brother i see your mind is set on Pre-Trib...mine is on Mid-Trib ...we will have to agree to disagree i quess,
but it was nice talking to you brother...may the Lord keep you and bless you always

 Good enough my friend.
 I'll see you in the clouds...PRE-TRIB! The first round of mana is on you my brother! Grin

 Bronzesnake
For your sake I hope you are right and AJ and I am wrong, butdon't be disapointed if the Rapture comes in mid-trib. Keep your faith close to your heart. For God loves everyone.
If you are wrong, the first round of mana is on you my brother.  Grin
And I will be the last to say, "I told you so." Grin

Go in peace with God
Bob
Logged

InHimITrust
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


Jesus is Lord


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2004, 11:39:14 AM »

Revelation is nothing but the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, with the New Jerusalem being the Holy Spirit.
   How can anyone see revelation as "future"?
  It is a Great Holy City/harlot/woman being destroyed by a gentile army. There are 12 tribes mentioned, 10 horns on the beast of the sea and 2 horns on the beast of the earth. This equals 12 and simply represent the 2 split nations of the House of Israel.
    The 7 churches represent the 7 heads, with Thyatira representing Jezebel/Babylon, and the church of Philadelphia representing Christ's pure church,"the one who is".
    Jerusalem represented spiritual "babylon/harlot/great Holy city and is the beast of the earth that speaks as a "Lamb".
    To me, revelation is historically past and is the devine vision seen by John as the destruction of Jerusalem and the redemtion of the saints. This brought together the 2 nations under one King, Jesus, after destroying the synagogue of "satan" that were killing and persecuting the saints. Shortly after Paul died after ministering, God brought the roman army down, just as He promised and Christ promised.

Ezek 36:21 "But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went. 22 "Therefore, say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went.
Ezek 37:21 "And say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
Ezek 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and they will no longer be divided into two kingdoms.
Logged

Galatian 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.
Shammu
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 34862


B(asic) I(nstructions) B(efore) L(eaving) E(arth)


View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2004, 01:32:42 PM »

Huh?? ^^^ Now I am confused.  
InHimITrust, this is about Mid-Trib rapture.




Go in peace with God
DW
Logged

AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2004, 02:39:31 PM »

Revelation is nothing but the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, with the New Jerusalem being the Holy Spirit.
How can anyone see revelation as "future"?


If you believe this then your faith is in vain! Why? because if Revelation is all past... then so is the Second Coming and the Resurrection!

Paul said this about this teaching.

2Ti 2:16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17  And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Revelation is future... John was told to write the things which must come to pass hearafter...and the hearafter of this book didnt stop in 70AD.

Are you resurrected yet brother? Did God wipe away all tears from your eyes? Are you eating from the tree of life yet? and so on and so on...wheres the new heaven and new earth?

Not future? Hmm: The Holy Spirit warned about false teaching and teachers in the last days.... dont fall into this group friend.

God Bless
Logged
InHimITrust
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


Jesus is Lord


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2004, 09:11:47 PM »

Hmmm. False belief huh? Well, I am definately happy and content with my walk with God and His Son and feel more and more alive with them everyday.
  When I visioned what revelation was about, I had the greatest feeling and knew then that the bible was indeed the devine written book of God. I have never seen any contradictions in it at all and the whole book is harmonized so well, a million super computers couldn't write a book as God inspired as the bible. You can believe in rapture doctrines if that makes you happy in the Lord, but for me, I am happy to see it fulfilled as I do and so are my family and loved ones. We preach the word of God whenever we can and my love for Him and His Son is more powerfull today than ever. Sometimes I feel like I am looking at the world from the outside, a kind of heavenly feeling that is hard to describe. The bible is the only book in the world to me, because it was sent down by God thru His Son Jesus Christ, so you don't need to tell me how to rightly divide the word, as God thru His spirit helps me with that.
    I only wish others could experience it the way I and others have. Regardless of whether you believe in a "rapture" or not, just being in God's family is the best blessing anyone can have. God bless everyone here.
   
Logged

Galatian 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.
AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2004, 12:16:36 PM »

I agree 100%. I first read the bible thru last May when God entered my life....

Praise God dear brother...i see you are a babe in christ?
i read this from another post you replied to...God bless you brother, its nice to see new christians for God on the forums. But as a new babe in the lord... dont you think you should drink milk for now? Revelation is a very hard study...not that new christians cant be shown somthing about the book of Revelation, but this book is indeed meat...and as a newborn babe we are told to drink milk first. What do you think?
I was a babe once too dear brother...and i had some false teachings, Why? because i was trying to eat meat when i should have been drinking milk. And if you believe that Christ returned in 70AD then that is incorrect. still not convinced? they pray about it brother...Praise the lord and may God bless you and your family Grin

Love you brother...Amen

« Last Edit: May 31, 2004, 12:24:26 PM by AJ » Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2004, 12:37:50 AM »

IHIT...

 
Quote
It is a Great Holy City/harlot/woman being destroyed by a gentile army. There are 12 tribes mentioned, 10 horns on the beast of the sea and 2 horns on the beast of the earth. This equals 12 and simply represent the 2 split nations of the House of Israel.
    The 7 churches represent the 7 heads, with Thyatira representing Jezebel/Babylon, and the church of Philadelphia representing Christ's pure church,"the one who is".

 I will not question your love for God my friend, however, you yourself have stated that you are a new Christian. It only makes good sense for you to listen and learn from those Christians who have studied the scriptures for many years. That doesn't mean you should blindly follow any teaching based on a teacher's experience. You must always use the Bible as your measuring stick. If a teaching does not line up with the Bible, then stay away from it.

 It is of the utmost importance that you take the Bible literally, learn to understand what you are reading though. Jesus uses parables many times in order to make His point understood, however, the Bible always interprets itself. If Jesus uses a parable, it is always explained if you read further on. That makes it very easy to take the entire Bible as the 100% literal truth and word of God.

 I will give you some examples as to what I'm talking about.

 In the beginning several verses Jesus speaks in parable...

 Mat 13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;  


 Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:  


 Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:  


 Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.  


 Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:  


 Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.  


 Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.  


 In the next few verses Jesus explains to His deciples why He uses parables...


 Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?  


 Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.  


 Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.  


 Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.  

These next verses are very relevant to our discussion. Many "Christians" today are being utterly baffled and confused by refusing to take the Bible literally. They spiritualize it, and in doing so, the Bible becomes open to many different interpretations. How can God's Word have many meanings? Jesus said there is only one Truth, only one way to enter Heaven. He also said that there are many roads that lead to Hell. Homosexual "Christians" are a good example of what happens when people spiritualize God's Word. God is very clear that homosexuality which goes unrepentant, is an abomination to Him and a sin that will lead straight to hell.

 Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:  


 Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.  


 Mat 13:16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.  


 Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].  

 Now,as I said, the Bible enterprets itself. Here, Jesus explains the exact meaning of the parable.

 Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.  


 Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.  


 Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;  


 Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.  


 Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.  


 Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

 We don't have to "invent" theoretical explanations and meanings for any of the Bible. The Bible always explains itself.

 In my next pst I will show you where the ten horns and the harlot are explained.
Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2004, 12:51:25 AM »

Quote
Revelation is nothing but the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, with the New Jerusalem being the Holy Spirit.
  How can anyone see revelation as "future"?
  It is a Great Holy City/harlot/woman being destroyed by a gentile army. There are 12 tribes mentioned, 10 horns on the beast of the sea and 2 horns on the beast of the earth. This equals 12 and simply represent the 2 split nations of the House of Israel.
    The 7 churches represent the 7 heads, with Thyatira representing Jezebel/Babylon, and the church of Philadelphia representing Christ's pure church,"the one who is".
    Jerusalem represented spiritual "babylon/harlot/great Holy city and is the beast of the earth that speaks as a "Lamb".

 Not so my friend.

 Read what God says about those things...

harlot...

 Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:  


 Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.  


 Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.  


 Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:  


 Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.  


 Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.  

 In this next verse an angel explains who the harlot woman is as well as the meaning of the seven heads and ten horns.

 Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.  

 Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.  


 Rev 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

 Now I will explain in detail what God says about these verses.
However, it will be rather long so I will use another post...
Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2004, 01:20:41 AM »

Chapters 17 and 18 of the book of Revelation form another parenthesis. They are expositions of two verses. Chapter 17 explains Revelation 14:8 and chapter 18 expounds Revelation 16:19. In Revelation 14:8 we read, And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that greatcity, be-cause she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Likewise, in chapter 16, we learned that great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of thefierceness of his wrath (verse 19).

  The Babylon of Revelation 14 is a religious system, whereas the Babylon of Revelation 16 is political. The chapter before us, then, is the story of the rise and fall ofthe ecumenical world church, while chapter 18 describes the destruction of apolitical system. Let’s begin our investigation of chapter 17 and discuss its prophetic implications, historically.

Verse 1: And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Here we see one of the seven angels who administered one of the seven judgments speaking to the disciple, John, inviting him to view the judgment of the great harlot who sitteth upon many waters. This phrase, many waters,speaks of religious control over humanity, internationally. Proof? Verse 15:The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Verse 2: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, andthe inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Here we discover that this worldwide religious system holds both earth’s leaders and people within its grasp. The fornication committed is between these worldly leaders and the church. Remember that fornication, spiritually speaking, has to do with idolatry, including all its evil connotations and associations.

Spiritual fornication also has to do with Christianity embracing the world leaping out of Christ’s arms into those of another lover. God’s Word instructs true Christians to be separated from the world (see Romans 12:2),specifically cautioning them not to fall in love with the world or anything that it contains (see 1 John 2:15). Those who disregard these commands are spiritual adulterers or fornicators. That’s why James 4:4 declares, Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Harlotry and whoredom, then, speak of idolatry and worldliness.

During the Tribulation hour, a vast international religious system (the great whore of verse 1) creates impure alignments with kings, rulers, and presidents in an unprecedented way. Her control is so overwhelming that humanity becomes mentally stupefied or hypnotically drugged as they are made drunk with the intoxicating brew of these religious/political alliances.

Verse 3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,having seven heads and ten horns.

At this point John, guided by the Holy Spirit. observes the woman (or worldchurch) sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,having seven heads and ten horns. We first saw this beast in chapter 13,verse 1: I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out ofthe sea, having seven heads and ten horns. We immediately recognize him to be the Antichrist, who came to power through a confederation of western nations pictured by the ten horns and ten toes.

The only difference between the present text and verse 1 of chapter 13 is that the beast is now described as being scarlet coloured. Most commentators believe this reflects his bloody assault upon the world as he rises to power. He begins his reign with a fake peace pact (see Daniel 9:27) which helater breaks! As a result, millions are slaughtered during his rule. Now he bears the blood-red color of an executioner.

Verse 4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her handfull of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

As this world church on earth is described, please keep in mind that the true Church—the bride of Christ—is in heaven (chapter 4, verse 1). Her members were raptured from all nations and from many denominations. In fact,their song was recorded in chapter 5, verse 9: Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. The lyrics clearly prove that they trusted in the precious blood of Jesus for salvation. There is no other way (see 1 Peter1:18,19). Cain rejected the blood and tried to appease God with a vegetable offering (see Genesis 4:3), but God said, It is the blood that maketh anatonement for the soul (Leviticus 17:11). One cannot get to heaven by following the commandments of men (Matthew 15:9), observing tradition (seeMark 7:9), or as a result of works (see Titus 3:5). Thus, those who believed and obeyed God’s teachings concerning the blood of the Lamb are in heaven when the false church, the great whore that sitteth upon many waiters, holdssway over the earth.

This false religious system of the Tribulation hour is a complete union of the church and the world. Its members are the leftovers from all denominations. They were either doctrinally or morally wrong. One is as bad as the other. The doctrinally wrong are described in 2 Peter 2:1 and 3: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall befalse teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction...whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

The morally wrong are pictured in Jude, verses 8-21. Now we understand why theology and morality are so important! When God says, All have sinned(Romans 3:23), He means all. When He declares, The wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23), He means punishment. When He declares, The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7), He means just that!There are no two ways about it! God says what He means—and means what He says. If one rejects God’s Word, he will end up among this Tribulation crowd of self-indoctrinated religionists in a world church destined for destruction.

 To continue on next post...
Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2004, 01:22:04 AM »

Secondly, if one says he is a Christian but continues to live in sin, the result will be the same—even though his doctrinal theories may coincide with the true teachings of the Word. Yes, disobedience to revealed truth, as well as incorrect doctrine, keeps one from the presence of God for all eternity.This is why Titus 1:16 states: They profess that they know God [lipservice]; but in works [daily living] they deny [God], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate [counterfeit]. Therefore,the members of both groups remain on earth when Jesus calls His genuine children home in the twinkling of an eye. Then these leftovers from all denominations become members of the only religious body still inexistence—the world church under the false prophet.

Looking at verse 4 once again, we notice that the woman or mother of the united world church is clothed in materials of purple and scarlet colour.This signifies rulership, for imperial Rome bedecked its leaders in such fashionable elegance. Strange, is it not, that ecclesiastical rulers have always desired temporal authority? They have sought to control the world as well as their parishioners.

Constantine, who became Emperor of Rome in 312 A.D. and eventually head of the church, is a perfect example of this power struggle which has continued to the present hour. Shades of Nicolaitanism! Remember the church of Ephesusin chapter 2. Question: Is such a goal scriptural? No! Jesus taught His disciples to pray, Thy kingdom come (Matthew 6:10). When that great event takes place in chapter 19, verse 16, then and only then, is a theocracy—the government of God—established upon earth. This position of leadership is reserved for the Lord Jesus Christ, and no mortal has any business taking His place. The throne belongs exclusively to the King of kings and Lord of Lords.

The colors and jewels of verse 4 picture a church composed of prelates or leaders elegantly dressed in purple and scarlet (the colors of the emperors from the time of Constantine). They are also decked with gold and precious stones and pearls (a picture of wealth) and use idols in worship (picturedby the golden cup in the woman’s hand). The cup is full of (1) abominations and (2) filthiness.

Verse 5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THEGREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Here we discover that the mother church has daughters. Her offspring are groups who either rejected the true teachings of the founder of Christendom or who had a counterfeit experience with the Son of God. They went through the motions but were never truly converted. Among them are cultists,apostates, and unconverted professors of religion—including Baptists,Catholics, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, and those who were members of a host of denominations. They never really knew the Lord (see Matthew 7:21-23). The fruit of daily living was spoiled. Now they are all united in one homogenized ecumenical monstrosity—the counterfeit church under the leadership of the false prophet. However, the true believers from many denominations are already on the glory side and were evacuated at the Rapture (see Revelation 4:1).

My friend, at the Judgment Day, no church—not even your church—will be the final standard of truth. Neither will tradition hold sway at the judgment bar of God. The only and absolute authority of truth, faith, and religious practice is God’s Holy Word (see 2 Timothy 3:16)! This is why the Lord Jesus himself said in Mark 7:7 and 13, Howbeit in vain do they worship me,teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered.

Verse 6: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

As John watches all the cunning antics of persecution this woman used and uses, he [wonders] with great admiration. This does not mean he admires the one who has so mercilessly destroyed so many. Instead, the original Greek is that John "wonders with a great wonder." He is mystified.

Verse 7: And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her,which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The explanation begins in the next verse.

Verse 8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out ofthe bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earthshall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not,and yet is.

To continue on next post....
Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2004, 01:24:10 AM »

The angel continues unfolding the mystery of the beast in verses 8 through17. Then, in verse 18, the identity of the woman is revealed. Concerning the beast, the angel declares, The beast that thou sawest was [past tense], and is not [present tense]; and shall ascend [future tense] out of the bottomless pit. This is the same beast found in verse 3 and also in chapter13, verse 1. The reason the beast was, and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition is that, as mentioned in Rev chapter 13, verse 3, he is more than likely assassinated during theTribulation hour—and thus, is not. Then satan, the great imitator,resurrects himself and enters the body of this human for the final forty-two months of the Tribulation.

This explanation fulfills the statement, and yet is (verse Cool. While he is deceased, the beast is in the place of departed evil spirits—the bottomless pit. At the time of his resurrection, he ascends out of this pit, only to eventually go back into perdition at the conclusion of his reign when Christ comes (at the Battle of Armageddon) and casts him into the lake of fire(chapter 19, verse 20). Verse 8 also tells us that those persons whose names[are] not written in the book of life, are emotionally stirred as they see the beast that was [alive], and is not [because of his assassination] and yet is [because of his resurrection] ruling again.

Verse 9: And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

This is a tremendous text. It locates, geographically, the final world powerblock and headquarters for the world church as well. Historically speaking, Rome is the only city situated on seven hills. The names of her seven peaksare (1) Aventine, (2) Caehan, (3) Capitohine, (4) Esquihine, (5) Palatine,(6) Quimnal, and (7) Viminal. There is no disputing the fact. The worldchurch, sitting on these seven hills, heading up scores of denominations,rides to power on the back of the ten horned western federation of nations.

Verse 10: And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

As John receives this vision of the seven kings, five have already fallen.They were (1) Julius Caesar, (2) Tiberius, (3) Caligula, (4) Claudius, and (5) Nero. Number (6)—Domitian—is, at the time John receives this revelation, alive and on the throne. Number 7 is yet to come. He, of  course, is the Antichrist whose reign will last briefly, or a short space.

Verse 11: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

This verse is a thought twister, but easily understood when one considers it carefully. Who is king number eight if there are only seven kings in thefirst place? Number eight is number seven resurrected! And the beast that was [before his assassination], and is not [because of his untimely death],even he is [because of his resurrection] the eighth. He is of the seven because satan, who incarnated his body while dead, also motivated the other seven. As further proof that number eight is the resurrected Antichrist(number seven), we are again told that he will eventually go into perdition.This statement is also made concerning number seven in verse 8 as well as verse 11. King number seven and king number eight are one and the same.

Verse 12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The ten horns have not become quite familiar to us. They may soon control the world. Communism, as we have learned, is not the final power block of history. Rather, this ten toed western alliance is. The power of these nations, however, will be for one hour, or for but a brief moment of time.

Verse 13: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The final ten-nation western federation—after the Antichrist ousts three of the original members and replaces them—becomes so unified that everything they possess, economically and militarily, is placed under the control of this world leader (see Daniel 7:8, 24).

Verse 14: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

This verse is fulfilled in chapter 19, verses 11 through 16, when the world’s armies gather together against the Lord and His anointed as pictured in Psalm 2:2: The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed. The Lamb(Christ) is the Lord of lords, and King of kings. The called, chosen, and faithful who accompany Him are the armies of heaven (chapter 19, verse 14)composed of the believers (the true Church) who were raptured out of the world in chapter 4, verse 1, and who then waited in heaven seven years to return with the Bridegroom.

Verse 15: And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

As explained in our discussion of verse 1, the woman sitting upon many waters is the world church who exercises religious control over mankind internationally.

Verse 16: And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The Antichrist eventually betrays his religious followers. They bowed and scraped to his image, but now he no longer wants to share the limelight and glory with them. Thus, the individual leaders of the countries in the ten nation confederacy turn against the world church. They hate her, strip her of all possessions (the gold, precious stones, and pearls of verse 4), and destroy her by burning her remains to the ground. Who places such a plan of action in the hearts of these rulers? None other than God Almighty!

Verse 17: For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree,and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall befulfilled.

Imagine, God does it all! This portion of Scripture emphasizes the futility of politics. Despite the methods and manipulations of man, God’s plan always comes to pass. He sets up and knocks down world rulers at will (see Psalm75:7). They are but pawns in the game of life (see Proverbs 21:1). God’s will prevails regardless of what humans attempt to do. Christian, get souls saved! This is your God-given goal. Let the world spend time on temporal issues. The cause of Christ is eternal!

Verse 18: And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reignethover the kings of the earth.

This great end time city is located within the Common Market nations and proves that the political and religious power brokers exist together simultaneously. Since the world church forms at the time when ten western nations unite—and both the European Economic Community (now the European Union) and World Council of Churches began unity proceedings in 1948

 The Bible can be understood as long as you read it through and take it litterally my friend.

 Bronzesnake.


The above was taken from a study from Dr. Jack Van Impe.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2019 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media