Papal Address Confirming Evolution

[ollie]

lol, I noticed that. I still outrack you

Al is the Resistance leader! Nope, no spelling error there! None at all *sweeps sleeping error under rug with foot*

 
   

[Tibby]

Glad I crack you up. Oh, and as a matter of fact, I did sleep through English class! Math, too. even slept through football practice a few times. Now THAT is something to be proud of

As for the truth, you haven't told me the trust. You copy and paste a few little bit, and the expound on nothing. Reminds me of my "Absence of Content" paper written in 10th grade English, while we are on my Language Arts Education.   All is all, I have yet to see facts. This collection of Propaganda may work for other protestants, but we are Catholics. We know this stuff, and we know when you have your facts mixed up. Yet, you still profess to know more about what we believe then we do. When you give me fact, and present them in a form that is CORRECT, then I will consider listening to this rubbish. How can these fact be true when the proof you use to back these facts up with is false?

[sunodino]

Glad I crack you up. Oh, and as a matter of fact, I did sleep through English class! Math, too. even slept through football practice a few times. Now THAT is something to be proud of

As for the truth, you haven't told me the trust. You copy and paste a few little bit, and the expound on nothing. Reminds me of my "Absence of Content" paper written in 10th grade English, while we are on my Language Arts Education.   All is all, I have yet to see facts. This collection of Propaganda may work for other protestants, but we are Catholics. We know this stuff, and we know when you have your facts mixed up. Yet, you still profess to know more about what we believe then we do. When you give me fact, and present them in a form that is CORRECT, then I will consider listening to this rubbish. How can these fact be true when the proof you use to back these facts up with is false?

OK Tibby, You are not moved.

Please answer directly, does the RCC have the following doctrines or not?  I think I told you I WAS CATHOLIC, I STUDIED THE DOCTRINE, I AM NOT A PROTESTANT NEWCOMER, NOR DO I IDENTIFY WITH THE PROTESTANT CHURCHES!  But I enjoyed this one alot. HA HA HAHAHA.

The Modified List (consolidated):
FALSE DOCTRINES OF RCC
·Prayers for the dead AND to the dead, including Mary
·Making the sign of the cross (genuflect) with Holy Water & salt
·Veneration of angels and dead saints and use of images
·Priests begin to dress differently from the laity
·The doctrine of purgatory (Gregory I)
·The Latin language used in worship and prayer (Gregory I)
·Title of “pope” or “universal bishop” first given to Boniface III
·Kissing the pope’s foot (Pope Constantine)
·Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin , King of France
·Worship of the cross images and relics, statues, medals etc.
·Canonization of dead saints (Pope John XV)
·Celibacy of the priesthood (Pope Gregory Vii)
·The rosary
·The inquisition
·Sale of indulgences
·Transubstantiation
·Auricular (private) confession of sins to a priest (Pope Innocent III - Lateran Council)
·The Scapular invented by Simon Stock, an English monk
·Tradition declared to be of equal authority with the Bible by Council of Trent
·The Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent
·Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary (proclaimed by Pope Pius ix)
·Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius ix and ratified by the Vatican Council, condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press and scientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; reasserted the pope’s temporal authority over all civil rulers.
·Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals proclaimed by the Vatican Council
·Public schools condemned by Pope Pius Xi
·Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) proclaimed by Pope Pius XII
·Mary proclaimed mother of the church by Pope Paul VI

Other practices:
monks, nuns, monasteries, convents, forty days of Lent, Holy week, Palm Sunday, Ash Wednesday, All Saints Day, fish day, meat days, incense, holy oil, holy palms, St. Christopher medals, charms, relics, novenas.  

[Tibby]

The Modified List (consolidated):
FALSE DOCTRINES OF RCC- Since you used present tense, I assume you are referring to the Current Catechism, and not History, right?

·Prayers for the dead AND to the dead, including Mary- Yes

·Making the sign of the cross (genuflect) with Holy Water & salt- Yes

·Veneration of angels and dead saints and use of images- No

·Priests begin to dress differently from the laity- Yes

·The doctrine of purgatory (Gregory I)- Yes

·The Latin language used in worship and prayer (Gregory I)- No

·Title of “pope” or “universal bishop” first given to Boniface III- Yes

·Kissing the pope’s foot (Pope Constantine)-Yes

·Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin , King of France-yes

·Worship of the cross images and relics, statues, medals etc.-No

·Canonization of dead saints (Pope John XV)- Well, seeing as one of the prerequisite of being Canonizationed is being need alive after you die, YES

·Celibacy of the priesthood (Pope Gregory Vii- No

·The rosary- You are going to have to be more specific.

·The inquisition- Again, be more specific.

·Sale of indulgences- no

·Transubstantiation- Yes

·Auricular (private) confession of sins to a priest- Yes

·The Scapular invented by Simon Stock, an English monk- Yes

·Tradition declared to be of equal authority with the Bible by Council of Trent- no

·The Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent- No

·Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary- Yes

·Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius ix and ratified by the Vatican Council, condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press and scientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; reasserted the pope’s temporal authority over all civil rulers.- No

·Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals proclaimed by the Vatican Council- No

·Public schools condemned by Pope Pius Xi- No

·Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) proclaimed by Pope Pius XII- Yes

·Mary proclaimed mother of the church by Pope Paul VI-yes


With a few exception, I don’t see what is false about any of this. A few of your fact where false though.  Here are a few small examples:

Kissing the pope’s foot we not started my Pope Constantine of the 700 Century. The Tradition of kissing feet was common in biblical times.

The Apocryphal books where not added my the counsel of Trent. And even if they where, then I ask you WHY? What would be the point? Adding all those books just so they can use one vague verse about Purgatory? What reason did the counsel of Trent have for adding the 14th Chapter to Daniel? On top of that, the fact that really messes that argument up, if these where added by the Counsel of Trent, how do you explain the Eastern Orthodox bible?

I don’t know how old you are, but I doubt you where old enough hot experience the sale of indulgences. If you where Catholic at one time, you would know this cannot be a “false Doctrine” because it is not a doctrine any longer.

The Latin language used in worship and prayer is tolerate, but the Vatican II did away with the Latin Mass. Even so, what is wrong with the use of Latin in worship and prayer?

This still wasn’t “condensed” as best it could. All the Mary points could have easily been made into one.

[Heidi]

I don't understand the sign of the cross. It seems like a superstition to me. If a person wans to honor Christ, why doesn't he just talk to Him?

[Tibby]

Why can't you talk to him AND do the sign of the cross? it is just a sign of respect, a form of worship.

[sunodino]

Tibby,
We can pretty much exhaust this subject.  You are turning a blind eye to the fact that all the doctrines you said YES to, are not covered in Scripture.  RCC imposed them and many paid with their lives for rejecting them.  

A few comments:
·Celibacy of the priesthood (Pope Gregory Vii- No
Priests are still required to be single, this practice is still a doctrine of RCC

·The rosary- You are going to have to be more specific.
Catholic Encyclopedia  “The Rosary is a certain form of prayer wherein we say  tens of Hail Mary’s with one Our Father between each ten, fifteen times.

·The inquisition- Again, be more specific.
Catholic Encyclopedia:  By this term is usually meant a special ecclesiastical institutional for combating or suppressing heresy.  During the Middle ages hundreds of so called heretics were tortured and killed by RCC.  Here is what they say about it:
“Europe was so endangered by heresy, and penal legislation concerning Catharism had gone so far, that the Inquisition seemed to be a political necessity. That these sects were a menace to Christian society “

·Sale of indulgences- no
RCC still requires money be paid for a priest to say “mass” for the dead loved one.

[Tibby]

Tibby,
We can pretty much exhaust this subject.  You are turning a blind eye to the fact that all the doctrines you said YES to, are not covered in Scripture.  RCC imposed them and many paid with their lives for rejecting them.  

Some of them are not. For many of them, is isn’t an issue. Oh, cars are in in the bible, so lets take all parking lots off the Churches while we are at it!

A few comments:
Celibacy of the priesthood (Pope Gregory Vii- No
Priests are still required to be single, this practice is still a doctrine of RCC

There are a number of priest who are married. Many preists choose to remain Celibate, but there are married preists

The rosary- You are going to have to be more specific.
Catholic Encyclopedia  “The Rosary is a certain form of prayer wherein we say  tens of Hail Mary’s with one Our Father between each ten, fifteen times.

That is one way of describing it. In that case, Yes.

The inquisition- Again, be more specific.
Catholic Encyclopedia:  By this term is usually meant a special ecclesiastical institutional for combating or suppressing heresy.  During the Middle ages hundreds of so called heretics were tortured and killed by RCC.  Here is what they say about it:
“Europe was so endangered by heresy, and penal legislation concerning Catharism had gone so far, that the Inquisition seemed to be a political necessity. That these sects were a menace to Christian society “

I that case, no.

Sale of indulgences- no
RCC still requires money be paid for a priest to say “mass” for the dead loved one.

Ok, really, that just isn’t true, plain and simple. Not in many catholic

[Mr. 5020]

Go spam!  Go spam!  Go!  Go!  Go spam!

[sunodino]

Go spam!  Go spam!  Go!  Go!  Go spam!

What is that supposed to mean?  If you are not interested in the dialog....(whatever)

I saw this in the intro:
Name is Mr. 5020 (aka Oscar).  I turned 20 yesterday.  I've been saved for 13 years now, and feel called to associate pastoral (possibly bi-vocational) ministry.  Have been a member of TheologyOnline.com since last November and have come to really enjoy forums.  Since TheologyOnline.com is for all religions (or non-religions, as the case may be), I sought out a Christian forum.  So here I am. Hope I bless you and you bless me.

Really.................

 

[Knox]

It never fails to amaze me when anti-Catholic bigots on the internet try to discredit the Roman Catholic Church by bringing up material from 500 years ago, like "The Inquisition".  In reality, there were many inquisitions, but these people are not historians, after all. Their concern is not for historical accuracy, they are mainly concerned with holding present-day Catholics up to ridicule. Absolutely without any compassion or any sense of decency, they never stop to consider that today's Catholics are just as shocked and horrified by these events as anyone else.

To their credit, one rarely sees a Catholic respond to this type of mindless harassment by pointing out the obvious; Protestants have skeletons in their closet too. Only their sins are a lot lot closer in time to the present day.

Who was it in the United States that bought and sold human beings, and treated them as beasts of burden? Protestant Christians. The Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845 for the express purpose of defending the institution of slavery. They also opposed the Civil Rights initiatives of the 1950's and 1960's.

On the internet one can find hundreds of photographs (many of them were made into postcards!) of smiling, laughing, good old-fashioned white southern Protestants gathered around the body or bodies of recently deceased black people. They were recently deceased because these people had just murdered them. Were there any Roman Catholics in the crowd? Not Likely. Any Catholic foolish enough to be in the immediate area would possibly have been strung up for an encore!

Who comprised the membership of the Ku Klux Klan? Sorry, no Catholics allowed. The Klan was responsible for untold misery inflicted on southern Blacks, and they did it all without any Catholic help, thank you.

The point is that no responsible Protestant Christian today would be involved in the murder of anybody, just as no responsible Roman Catholic would torture or kill any supposed heretic. Nobody is asking you guys to join the Roman Catholic Church. You don't care for their style of worship, so be it. They are not responsible for something that happend half a millenium ago.

[Heidi]

If you read the posts, Knox, you'll notice that the people who criticize the catholic churches have also criticized the Protestant churches as well. So why are you defending the Catholic church yet not Christians? That's a gross contradiction.

[Knox]

I don't understand your comment. I was not defending the Catholic Church.

[Heidi]

If you're not defending them, then are you criticizing them? Or are just criticizing Christians for having doctrinal differences?

[Knox]

What?? Heidi if you really didn't understand my post, I don't know what to say. I'll have no more discussion with you on this.