Who Is Your Apostle?

[Sower]

Water baptism is a ceremonial Jewish ritual done by man, a shadow of things to come....There is one baptism, and it is NOT done my man, rather by the Holy Ghost.
Tom

Bro. Tom:

I am quite surprised to read the above statements from one who is otherwise well-versed in the Word of God. If indeed water baptism is merely a "Jewish ritual" then what are you going to do with the express commandment of the Lord in Matt. 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15-18? Are you saying that the Lord Himself commanded believers to continue a mere Jewish ritual? God forbid. He commanded His disciples to baptize, without in any way minimizing or setting aside the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Even the baptisms of John the Baptizer were no "mere Jewish rituals" but had tremendous spiritual significance for Jews who trusted God before Pentecost, and were according to the will of God.  This was a "baptism unto repentance" (Matt. 3:11).  Since Christ was the sinner's substitute, He fully identified Himself with repentant sinners in water baptism. That is why our Lord went to John to be baptized and commanded him: "Suffer it to be so now: FOR THUS IT BECOMETH US TO FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Matt. 3:15).

Also what are you going to do with every instance of water baptism after Pentecost? Are you going to tell us that the apostles were simply practicing error? When Peter went to the home of Cornelius and the Holy Ghost "fell upon" the Gentiles there, here is what Peter said, and what we all must give heed to: "Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be BAPTIZED, which have received the Holy Ghost [baptism of the Holy Ghost] as well as we? AND HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord..." Acts 10:46-48.  Had you been present there with Peter, would you have told him "No, this is merely a Jewish ritual Peter, and totally unnecessary"?

Scripture itself refutes your contention that there is only ONE baptism -- there is only one Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor. 12:12-13; Eph. 4:4-6) but there are TWO BAPTISMS in Scripture.  Thus Paul speaks of "the doctrine of baptisms" [plural] in Hebrews 6:2, which includes both water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is a supernatural work of God the moment a sinner is saved (Titus 3:5-7). Believer's baptism by immersion in water symbolizes his or her death ,burial and resurrection with and in Christ (Rom. 6:1-10; Col. 2:12-13), In these scriptures Paul brings both baptisms together.

It is not my purpose to argue but to reiterate what all believers have believed since Pentecost, but if you are going to set aside a foundational doctrine of Scripture, then the burden of proof rests upon you.  Please show us all how and why water baptism has been set aside by the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Petro]

Sower,

I realize, your post was not addressed to me, but since this is an issue which affects all,  please indulge me with a thought or two;

Scripture itself refutes your contention that there is only ONE baptism -- there is only one Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor. 12:12-13; Eph. 4:4-6) but there are TWO BAPTISMS in Scripture.

So is John's Baptism in water, a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, counted as one with the one commanded by Jesus,

If not then you have three.

If yes, then it is only symbolic as BEP has stated with which you agree, since you state this very thing further into this, reply.

 Thus Paul speaks of "the doctrine of baptisms" [plural] in Hebrews 6:2, which includes both water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is a supernatural work of God the moment a sinner is saved (Titus 3:5-7).

This is a matter open to debate I suppose, clearly he is not delegating His perojative of Baptizing with the Holy Spirit at all to the Aposltes, at Mk16:16 , neither does He expressly empower them to impart the Holy Spirit to anyone, who believes..

Suppose he is speaking of water baptism only, afterall the apostles could never baptize with the Holy Spirit

Believer's baptism by immersion in water symbolizes his or her death ,burial and resurrection with and in Christ (Rom. 6:1-10; Col. 2:12-13), In these scriptures Paul brings both baptisms together.

No argument here, I agree, water baptism is symbolic of the one true baptism with the Holy Spirit..

It is important to remember how it was the gentile believers received the Holy Spirit.

If ever there is a chronology given it is at Ephesians 1;

12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Now I have a question, when are those who believe baptized, before they believe or after?

Or does it matter, at all?? If it is before or after??



Blessings, Petro

[Petro]

A4C,

You said;

Did Paul ever preach a kingdom gospel - unequivocally NO. Paul preached grace in the dispensation of the grace of God.

There is only one Gospel, though it is called by many names, nevertheless, it is the same Everlasting Gospel


Paul received it by revelation of Jesus Christ, but it was exactly the same one the Apostles preached.  

Gal 2
2:1  Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2  And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Notice what Paul says at;

Gal 1
8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Even Peter preached the same gospel;


1 Pet 1
9  Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10  Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

In your opinion...........

Is there a difference between the gosple Peter preached and Paul preached??


Petro

[Jabez]

was paul one of the 12 apostles?

[Brother Love]

was paul one of the 12 apostles?

NO!

Brother Love

[Sower]

So is John's Baptism in water, a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, counted as one with the one commanded by Jesus,...If not then you have three.

Bro Petro:

You're right, and therefore John's baptism is not included in Christian baptisms. John's baptism unto repentance was for Israel (Acts 13:24). In fact, Scripture reveals that those 12 at Ephesus who had been disciples of John were presented with the Gospel by Paul, who then baptized them "in the name of the Lord Jesus" and laid hands upon them so that they received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 19:1-7). In this passage, water baptism and Spirit baptism are shown side by side.

In Matt. 28 and Mark 16, it is very clear that the Lord is speaking about water baptism and  how it is to be administered. All the accounts of the baptism of those who believed given in the book of Acts are accounts of water baptism [unless stated otherwise]. It should be obvious that since God the Holy Spirit baptises believers into the Body of Christ, this is not something delegated to any man.

Now I have a question, when are those who believe baptized, before they believe or after?Or does it matter, at all?? If it is before or after??

Those who believe are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the same time that they are born again or born of the Spirit. Water baptism follows immediately on the heels of this. Salvation, regeneration,  the baptism by the Holy Spirit, the forgiveness of sins, the justification of the believer, the sonship and heirship of the believer, and the gift of eternal life are all at one and the same time -- at the new birth: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He SAVED us, by the WASHING of REGENERATION  and the RENEWAL  of the Holy Ghost; which He shed on us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that BEING JUSTIFIED by His grace, we should BE MADE HEIRS according to the hope [promise] of ETERNAL LIFE. " (Titus 3:5-7).

The order does matter, since the Roman Catholic Church teaches erroneously that the baptism of an infant saves its soul, and many Protestant denominations also baptize babies.
However, the order in which God places these events 38 is given in Acts 2:38 and 41:

1. The Gospel is preached (Acts 2:22-36)
2. Hearts are pricked (Acts 2:37)
3. Repentance is the first requirement (Acts 2:38) and babies cannot repent
4. Faith is the second requirement (Acts 2:36) and babies cannot exercise faith
5. The receiving of Christ as Lord and Saviour is the third requirement (Acts 2:41) and this produces the new birth (Jn. 1:12-13)
6. Water baptism immediately follows (Acts 2:41) and all believers become part of a local assembly while they have already been placed in the Body of Christ at their new birth.

According to Scripture, there is no gap between the new birth and the water baptism of the believer. Even Saul the persecutor (later Paul the apostle) was baptized as soon as he received his sight and was filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 9:17) within 3 days of his conversion, although Ananias was extremely reluctant to approach this "dangerous" man.

[Brother Love]

So is John's Baptism in water, a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, counted as one with the one commanded by Jesus,...If not then you have three.

Bro Petro:

You're right, and therefore John's baptism is not included in Christian baptisms. John's baptism unto repentance was for Israel (Acts 13:24). In fact, Scripture reveals that those 12 at Ephesus who had been disciples of John were presented with the Gospel by Paul, who then baptized them "in the name of the Lord Jesus" and laid hands upon them so that they received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 19:1-7). In this passage, water baptism and Spirit baptism are shown side by side.

In Matt. 28 and Mark 16, it is very clear that the Lord is speaking about water baptism and  how it is to be administered. All the accounts of the baptism of those who believed given in the book of Acts are accounts of water baptism [unless stated otherwise]. It should be obvious that since God the Holy Spirit baptises believers into the Body of Christ, this is not something delegated to any man.

Now I have a question, when are those who believe baptized, before they believe or after?Or does it matter, at all?? If it is before or after??

Those who believe are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the same time that they are born again or born of the Spirit. Water baptism follows immediately on the heels of this. Salvation, regeneration,  the baptism by the Holy Spirit, the forgiveness of sins, the justification of the believer, the sonship and heirship of the believer, and the gift of eternal life are all at one and the same time -- at the new birth: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He SAVED us, by the WASHING of REGENERATION  and the RENEWAL  of the Holy Ghost; which He shed on us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that BEING JUSTIFIED by His grace, we should BE MADE HEIRS according to the hope [promise] of ETERNAL LIFE. " (Titus 3:5-7).

The order does matter, since the Roman Catholic Church teaches erroneously that the baptism of an infant saves its soul, and many Protestant denominations also baptize babies.
However, the order in which God places these events 38 is given in Acts 2:38 and 41:

1. The Gospel is preached (Acts 2:22-36)
2. Hearts are pricked (Acts 2:37)
3. Repentance is the first requirement (Acts 2:38) and babies cannot repent
4. Faith is the second requirement (Acts 2:36) and babies cannot exercise faith
5. The receiving of Christ as Lord and Saviour is the third requirement (Acts 2:41) and this produces the new birth (Jn. 1:12-13)
6. Water baptism immediately follows (Acts 2:41) and all believers become part of a local assembly while they have already been placed in the Body of Christ at their new birth.

According to Scripture, there is no gap between the new birth and the water baptism of the believer. Even Saul the persecutor (later Paul the apostle) was baptized as soon as he received his sight and was filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 9:17) within 3 days of his conversion, although Ananias was extremely reluctant to approach this "dangerous" man.

I do NOT agree with you, I will NOT go over everything, but I will ask you What was ISRAEL to REPENT of? Please Read Acts chapter 2.

Brother Love

[Ambassador4Christ]

I do NOT agree with you, I will NOT go over everything, but I will ask you What was ISRAEL to REPENT of? Please Read Acts chapter 2.

Brother Love  
=====================================
Good question Bro

[2nd Timothy]

Maybe I am a bit shallow minded here, but you are not implying that Israel is sinnless are you?  To me Peter is telling them to repent of their religious confidence and put their faith in the one true saviour.

I have tried, but I really do not understand the purpose of this debate.   Clearly all the Apostles were appointed by Christ.   Their writtings inspired by the holy spirit.  This is evident alone by the fact that the 4 gospels were written many years after christs death and ressurection, and that the holy spirit enabled them to recall Jesus' very words after so much time had passed.

If anyone feels enlightened enough to explain why any christian should choose one Apostle to follow rather than accepting the entire word of God that points to Christ as our salvation, I am all ears.   Whether or not I would choose to believe it or not depends on the rest of Gods word.

Grace and Peace

[3wells]

Brother, you don't need to search the rest of God's word. why not just believe what Paul himself had to say:

"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?"
OK?

Cephas is Peter and Paul is ... Paul. Right??

So why on earth are we still seeing people claiming to follow Paul... when they are doing the opposite??!!?

[2nd Timothy]

Brother, you don't need to search the rest of God's word. why not just believe what Paul himself had to say:

If anyone feels enlightened enough to explain why any christian should choose one Apostle to follow rather than accepting the entire word of God that points to Christ as our salvation, I am all ears.  Whether or not I would choose to believe it or not depends on the rest of Gods word

Just to make myself clear, (and I do know what you meant) but I assure you that I do not subscribe to picking and choosing Apostles.    I was simply saying that taken as a whole, I have not seen where scripture suggests we do it, and I think anyone else would be hard pressed to prove it does say this.

Grace and Peace!

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to 2nd Timothy,

You said - I have tried, but I really do not understand the purpose of this debate.  Clearly all the Apostles were appointed by Christ.  Their writtings inspired by the holy spirit.  This is evident alone by the fact that the 4 gospels were written many years after christs death and ressurection, and that the holy spirit enabled them to recall Jesus' very words after so much time had passed.

Brother, I don't understand either. I think the intent of the first post could be stated simply:

Who was commissioned of God to be the Apostle to the Gentiles?

I'm positive there was no intent to suggest that God's children follow anyone other than Christ.

The answer to your question appears to be argument, and argument won.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Sower]

I do NOT agree with you, I will NOT go over everything, but I will ask you What was ISRAEL to REPENT of? Please Read Acts chapter 2. Brother Love

Brother Love:

Coming to your question regarding what was Israel to repent of, is it not obvious from Scripture that they were to individually repent of their personal sins, including the sin of unbelief? "And there went out unto him [John] ALL THE LAND OF JUDAEA, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river Jordan, CONFESSING THEIR SINS (Matt. 3:6; Mk. 1:5).

The Jews (esp. the Pharisees and Sadducees) were proud of their Jewishness and their ancestry from Abraham (Matt. 3:9) so they were exhorted by John to "bring forth fruits" as evidence of repentance (Matt.3:. John knew that the religious leaders of the Jews were hypocrites at heart so he did not hesistate to call them a "generation of vipers" (Matt. 3:7).To those who were sincere about their repentance, John exhorted them to compassion, honesty, contentment, non-violence, non-extortion, and no false witness (Luke 3:10-14).

WE MUST KEEP IN MIND THAT JESUS THE MESSIAH [YESHUA HA MASCHIACH] WAS SENT TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL FIRST, AND JOHN'S BAPTISM WAS IN THIS CONTEXT.

After the rejection of Christ by Israel, John's baptism would be superseded by Christian baptism, as seen in the Great Commission. If you have a disagreement, it it not with me or others who believe what Scripture teaches.  Your disagreement is with God. Today, in God's eyes, there is no difference between Jew and Gentile after Pentecost, and Romans, chaters 2-5 makes this quite plain. So all are exhorted to "REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED" since "HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED" shall be saved.

[ollie]

Sower,

I realize, your post was not addressed to me, but since this is an issue which affects all,  please indulge me with a thought or two;

Scripture itself refutes your contention that there is only ONE baptism -- there is only one Holy Spirit baptism (1 Cor. 12:12-13; Eph. 4:4-6) but there are TWO BAPTISMS in Scripture.

So is John's Baptism in water, a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, counted as one with the one commanded by Jesus,

If not then you have three.

If yes, then it is only symbolic as BEP has stated with which you agree, since you state this very thing further into this, reply.

 Thus Paul speaks of "the doctrine of baptisms" [plural] in Hebrews 6:2, which includes both water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is a supernatural work of God the moment a sinner is saved (Titus 3:5-7).

This is a matter open to debate I suppose, clearly he is not delegating His perojative of Baptizing with the Holy Spirit at all to the Aposltes, at Mk16:16 , neither does He expressly empower them to impart the Holy Spirit to anyone, who believes..

Suppose he is speaking of water baptism only, afterall the apostles could never baptize with the Holy Spirit

Believer's baptism by immersion in water symbolizes his or her death ,burial and resurrection with and in Christ (Rom. 6:1-10; Col. 2:12-13), In these scriptures Paul brings both baptisms together.

No argument here, I agree, water baptism is symbolic of the one true baptism with the Holy Spirit..

It is important to remember how it was the gentile believers received the Holy Spirit.

If ever there is a chronology given it is at Ephesians 1;

12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Now I have a question, when are those who believe baptized, before they believe or after?

Or does it matter, at all?? If it is before or after??



Blessings, Petro

"Now I have a question, when are those who believe baptized, before they believe or after?

Scriptural example shows baptism after believing. Philip says the eunuch may be baptized if he believes with all his heart.
It almost seems a command , believe, be baptized. Stressing  the fact that one cannot be baptized if one does not believe.


Acts 8:36.  And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
 37.  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Acts 2:37.  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (the moment of believing for those at Pentacost listening to Peter)

 38.  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

All those assembled listening to Peter believed first and ask what to do and Peter told them, "Repent, and be baptized".......



"Or does it matter, at all?? If it is before or after??"

Believing is what brings one to be baptized. Being baptized would not bring one to belief. There is no point to baptism before believing because faith would be absent from the heart.
The heart must believe first and then baptism according to scripture.

Acts 2:41.  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:; and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


 Acts 8:12.  But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
 13.  Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.


Acts 9: 17.  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
 18.  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


Acts 18: 8.  And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.



Is there a scriptural example of being baptized before believing? I only find examples of believing then being baptized.


Ollie  

[Petro]

Ollie,

I read your  post, and see it as you have explained it.

Good points, with verses no less.

Sower,

Here is another question;
 
Do You see,  Johns baptism as a diferent form of water baptism than the one performed by the apostles which was  NOT commanded by Jesus. (Jhn 4:1-2) or was it??

It is important to remmeber that John testified, concerning the significance of his baptism, notice his own words;

Jhn 1
29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30  This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31  And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32  And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

As for the twelve, you refer to;

And this was the message that the twelve of Acts 19, were to believe (not only they, but ALL that come to FAITH in GOD)

Notice the verses;

Acts 19
1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7  And all the men were about twelve.

First allow me to put verse 2, in its proper context, as the KJV, has rendered this verse in such a way, that wrongly implies that the reception of the Holy Spirit takes place subsequent to salvation.  The scriptures clearly teach that the reception of the Holy Spirit is a work of Grace which imedeately seals the sinner upon coming to Saving Faith in Christ Jesus. (Eph 2:8-9)

Unless placed in its proper context, verse 2, opens the door to the teaching, that one must first be baptized in water in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

The ESV, gives verse 2, as follows;

And he said to them, "Did you recieve the Holy Spirit when you believed?"  

which, renders a version more closely to the Greek-English Interlinear NT Version;

2  he said to them, [The] Spirit Holy did you receive , having believed?

Now I see that you subscribe to this very teaching, so therefore we agree, since you said previously, when posting your comments to BEP; ( I suspected this but wasn't quite sure)

Believer's baptism by immersion in water symbolizes his or her death ,burial and resurrection with and in Christ (Rom. 6:1-10; Col. 2:12-13), In these scriptures Paul brings both baptisms together.

you continue;

Those who believe are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the same time that they are born again or born of the Spirit.

Amen, this is the one baptism spoken of in Eph 4:4-5, just as there is One God and One Lord, the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, is the One that seals ALL believers into the Body of Christ, all other forms of baptism are symbolic of the real One.

Water baptism follows immediately on the heels of this. Salvation, regeneration,  the baptism by the Holy Spirit, the forgiveness of sins, the justification of the believer, the sonship and heirship of the believer, and the gift of eternal life are all at one and the same time -- at the new birth: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He SAVED us, by the WASHING of REGENERATION  and the RENEWAL  of the Holy Ghost; which He shed on us abundantly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that BEING JUSTIFIED by His grace, we should BE MADE HEIRS according to the hope [promise] of ETERNAL LIFE. " (Titus 3:5-7).

verse 5, though the Word does not say it, but these men who were pricked in their heart "were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

There willingness or better stated their eargerness to obey, is evidence of their Saving Faith in Jesus Christ.


You go on to say;

The order does matter, since the Roman Catholic Church teaches erroneously that the baptism of an infant saves its soul, and many Protestant denominations also baptize babies.
However, the order in which God places these events 38 is given in Acts 2:38 and 41:

1. The Gospel is preached (Acts 2:22-36)
2. Hearts are pricked (Acts 2:37)
3. Repentance is the first requirement (Acts 2:38) and babies cannot repent
4. Faith is the second requirement (Acts 2:36) and babies cannot exercise faith
5. The receiving of Christ as Lord and Saviour is the third requirement (Acts 2:41) and this produces the new birth (Jn. 1:12-13)
6. Water baptism immediately follows (Acts 2:41) and all believers become part of a local assembly while they have already been placed in the Body of Christ at their new birth.

While I agree with you  concerning the Catholic churches position and other denominational institution abusing this ceremony,

I must point out that of the four distinct times the the order of events leading up to reception of the Holy Spirit is different in each case, where believers received Salvation ( I am refering to Acts 2 whereby the Spirit was poured out on believers (and the scripture is silent on whether they were re-baptized), Acts 8, when the Spirit was given to the Samaritans throught the laying on of hands by Peter and John, Acts 10, at the household of Cornelius, in Joppa, they received the Spirit as Peter preached Jesus to them.
 
And here where these men were baptized in water, receiving the Spirit at the laying of hands from the apsotle Paul.

Here at Acts 19, the order of events is:

Faith (pricked in their hearts to obey)
Re-baptism
Laying on of the Apostle's hands
Reception of the Holy Spirit

According to Scripture, there is no gap between the new birth and the water baptism of the believer. Even Saul the persecutor (later Paul the apostle) was baptized as soon as he received his sight and was filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 9:17) within 3 days of his conversion, although Ananias was extremely reluctant to approach this "dangerous" man.

While this is true then, it is not imperitive that water baptism be imediate, today, since the symbolic occasion of it does not have the same impact water baptism had in the days of the early church, (please do not get me wrong, Christians ought to get water baptized as soon as possible, but it is not do or die), as a public declaration did it those days, what is important is that the person being baptized believe, it is better to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance for the remission of sins, that it is to put on a show, and them throw a baptismal party.
 
This my opinion on the matter.


Blessings,
Petro