Needed, (by some), Additions to the Good News of Christ.

[Reba]

 Supprise Sex in marriage is  not a sin.  Sex is a creation of God.

Bad grammar bad spelling? Whining sinifling crybabies If ya dont like the style of the posts dont read em.

[JudgeNot]

Whoa!  Reba - you go girl.  
Righteous anger?

[The Crusader]

Mary the mother of God?

God sent Christ Jesus to die for us and be intermediary between God and HIs people. The cup he drank should be all sufficient for all men for all time.

The Pope as head of the church on earth?

God made Christ Jesus to be the head of His church on earth.

Raising people up to be special saints?

God sent Jesus Christ to shed His blood through which all who are called by His gospel are sanctified and holy, called to be saints.

The catechism?

God sent Jesus and through the Holy Spirit given by Jesus Christ, to inspired men, scripture of God was given and God's scripture or word is all that is necessary for the man of God to stand approved.

Man has added many things and ordinances to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Why, when Christ is all sufficient to salvation from sin and to life in God??

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now Read:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Crusader

[michael_legna]

Mary the mother of God?

God sent Christ Jesus to die for us and be intermediary between God and HIs people. The cup he drank should be all sufficient for all men for all time.

The Pope as head of the church on earth?

God made Christ Jesus to be the head of His church on earth.

Raising people up to be special saints?

God sent Jesus Christ to shed His blood through which all who are called by His gospel are sanctified and holy, called to be saints.

The catechism?

God sent Jesus and through the Holy Spirit given by Jesus Christ, to inspired men, scripture of God was given and God's scripture or word is all that is necessary for the man of God to stand approved.

Man has added many things and ordinances to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Why, when Christ is all sufficient to salvation from sin and to life in God??

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now Read:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Crusader

And your point is?

Do you think those verses address the issues you quote from the others?

If so how do you see them addressing those specific issues?

I can't even tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with Ollie.

Don't tell me you are another one of those like Petro who is afraid to provide their doctrinal interpretation of the verses they suggest for fear of being shown to be contrary to the rest of scripture.

[ollie]

'the same Catechism Pope John Paul II declared to be a sure norm for teaching the faith."

Is faith something that is taught or is it something that comes upon hearing the word of God when ones heart is pricked and responds to that heard word?

The use of the word faith John Paul II intends in his quote is the term used to represent the sum total of the Church's beliefs from the Gospel.  Like when you defend the faith, you are not defending the saving faith you recieve by cooperating with grace, you are defending the teachings of Christ in the Gospel.  And yes the Gospel teachings must be learned in order to be obeyed.  Of course even the saving faith we recieve through cooperation with the free gift of grace must be a faith based on understanding, so it too has a learning aspect to it.  So in that regard the hearing that you reference in the verse must be a hearing with understanding.

"the sum total of the Church's beliefs from the gospel"
 
Michael,

God's word reveals that there is one faith.

Your statement seems to infer the church at Rome has more than one.

Can you clarify?

[ollie]

Supprise Sex in marriage is  not a sin.  Sex is a creation of God.

Bad grammar bad spelling? Whining sinifling crybabies If ya dont like the style of the posts dont read em.

"Ditto."

We can't all be prose artists. All God's people have something to offer as a gift.

[ollie]

Whoa!  Reba - you go girl.  
Righteous anger?

"Ditto."

[michael_legna]

God's word reveals that there is one faith.

Your statement seems to infer the church at Rome has more than one.

Can you clarify?

The Catholic Church also believes that there is only one faith (though there are many details to that faith).  But I think your confusion is in the semantics.

I think we are just talking different usages of the term.  The faith can mean our set of beliefs, or it can mean (for lack of a better word) the feeling we have when we believe.  

We have faith (in the sense that we believe with our heart) and we have a faith (in the sense that we have a set of understandings of what God desires from us).  I was talking about the later.  When we defend our faith we are not defending our sense of belief but the substance of what we believe.   That is what I meant when I said - "Like when you defend the faith, you are not defending the saving faith you recieve by cooperating with grace, you are defending the teachings of Christ in the Gospel."

[Petro]

posted by michael as reply #67
 That is what I meant when I said - "Like when you defend the faith, you are not defending the saving faith you recieve by cooperating with grace, you are defending the teachings of Christ in the Gospel."

ollie,

Translating what michael is stating here, is this;

Since the pope is supposedly the very christ incarnate on this earth according to RCC teaching , its faithful should defend their faith which is in the INFALLIBILITY of what the pope and church magisterium teaches as though it was Jesus teaching it.

This is the saving faith he refers to.... You may have faith but unless the object of your faith is not the church teaching, your faith is in vain.

Go figure..............The bible does not teach anything about the infallibility of the pope nor magisterium, nor praying to dead saints, or in the presence of  images, relics, nor saying mass for the dead, nor the immaculate concepcion in Mary, or her bodily resurrection to heaven, or her co redemtress position to Jesus,   etc,  etc,  etc.....................................

Blessings,


Petro

[michael_legna]

Translating what michael is stating here, is this;

Since the pope is supposedly the very christ incarnate on this earth according to RCC teaching ,

Gee Petro you are as bad at translating as you are at interpreting.  The Catholic Church does not teach that the Pope is Christ incarnate - where do you come up with these strange ideas?

its faithful should defend their faith which is in the INFALLIBILITY of what the pope and church magisterium teaches as though it was Jesus teaching it.

Not all of what the Catholic Church teaches is thought by the Church to be infallible.  But yes some are considered to be infallible based on the promised protection of the Holy Spirit by Christ.  Those teachings are defended as if they came from God because they did.  But those are few and far between the rest is defended by true believers because we accept the Church as the pillar and ground of truth (1 Tim 3:15) and as the final authority in disputes (Mt 18:17) just as Paul did when He appealed to the Church (Acts 15:2).

This is the saving faith he refers to.... You may have faith but unless the object of your faith is not the church teaching, your faith is in vain.

That is just common logic Petro, if the object of your faith is not in the Gospel then your faith is in vain.  I believe the teachings of the RCC can be found in the Gospel or the Tradition and/ or Magisterium's teachings without being contradictory to the Gospel and you do not.  You believe in sola scriptura even though that is not in the Gospel.  Where is the logic in that?

[Petro]

Michael,

You didn't know this either??

You deny this is true, because you are ignorant of the facts, this is what the RCC claims and teaches...

Http://www.biblebelievers.net/FalseTeaching/kjcromeh.htm

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but He is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ that speaks. Does the Pope accord a favor or pronounce an anathema? It is Jesus Christ who pronounces the anathema Or accords the favor.

(Protestant Alliance Magazine, March, 1922)."


"Further, from the same Magazine of February, 1922, We read:-"

"OUR LORD GOD THE POPE."-These words appeared in the Roman Canon Law: "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.-I?i the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685."

"LORD GOD THE POPE.-Father A. Pereira says: "It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title 'Lord God the Pope,' for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII."

"THE POPE AND GOD THE SAME.-Writers on the Canon Law say, "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."- Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.

"THE POPE, BEING GOD, CANNOT BE JUDGED".-Pope Nicholas I declared that "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man." - Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para.

See the progression??


Of course you will deny this since, it is clear you do not believe it, but this doesn't mean anything, since you don't even believe Jesus's own words, what you believe or don't believe won't change the truth at all..unfortunately..

If you will acknowledge the truth, the Spirit of God can begin to do that work necessary for salvation in you..

God Loves You, and desires that you might know and believe Him, not men..

It is written;

Let every man be a liar, but let God be true.

Blessings,

Petro

[michael_legna]

Michael,

You didn't know this either??

You deny this is true, because you are ignorant of the facts, this is what the RCC claims and teaches...

Http://www.biblebelievers.net/FalseTeaching/kjcromeh.htm

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but He is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ that speaks. Does the Pope accord a favor or pronounce an anathema? It is Jesus Christ who pronounces the anathema Or accords the favor.

(Protestant Alliance Magazine, March, 1922)."

Petro, dear Petro, what have I told you before about relying on biased outside agency for your information on the Catholic Church.  A quote from an anti-Catholic website hardly proves that the Church claims this is their doctrine.  

Show me a quote like this from the Official Catechism not some fly by night hate monger and then we can talk.  Once again have the courage to attack the real position of the Church and not hand picked strawmen if you are sincerely interested in the truth and not just puffing yourself up.

[Petro]

Michael,

I have given you church teaching by those who know it.

If you dispute the the pope is  Christ veiled in the flesh, or your lord god, you are a heretic according to what pope john XXII has decreed.

Note below;


"OUR LORD GOD THE POPE."-These words appeared in the Roman Canon Law: "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.-I?i the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685."

I say it is up to you to show this is not so.

I will show you further proof, that the homosexual percentages claimed by the church are not reliable, what makes you think, the catechism is, concerning this teaching??

Blessings,

Petro [tr][/tr]

[Petro]

Here is another site which states the truths, of what Rome teaches.

http://www.lightministries.com/id523.htm

It is sad that any attempt made to bring you to the truth, is met with the same retohric most all catholics use to reject it.

There millions of ex RC's who have come to the truth of Gods word, but first, one must be lilling to accept what Rome teaches to be truth as they see it, and not biblical,

In your haste to defend the undefendable, you dismiss truth, by claiming anything and everything that is truthfull teaching of this institution, is classified as anti-catholic.

You can deny one point, but it its the monunental evidence that exists, that cannot be dismissed as nonsense.

Her are two more;

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth."

Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".


“...We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..."

 Pope Leo XIII, in Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae (The Reunion of Christendom), Encyclical promulgated on June 20, 1894.

http://www.users.qwest.net/~slrorer/ReunionOfChristendom.htm

You are an outsider, these quotes are made by insiders, who know.........you don't..

In order to come to the truth; michael..............

You simply have to be receptive to the truth, ............... pure and simple.

Blessings,

Petro

[michael_legna]

I have given you church teaching by those who know it.

No you gave me quotes from a Protestant and anti-Catholic site.  They do not know the teachings.  You have to go to the original source - you can't trust the quote from an intermediary, that is like quoting from Readers Digest.

If you dispute the the pope is  Christ veiled in the flesh, or your lord god, you are a heretic according to what pope john XXII has decreed.

Note below;

"OUR LORD GOD THE POPE."-These words appeared in the Roman Canon Law: "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.-I?i the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685."

I say it is up to you to show this is not so.

You can say anything you want Petro, that does not make it true.  Until you provide a reference to the original source I don't have to accept or prove anything.  How do I know this isn't pulled out of context, something I can only check once I know the original source.  

Here is a link to the Code of Canon Law - if you can find that quote there (which is a reputable source) then I will discuss it with you.  Until then I cannot trust the quote from your biased source.

I know what the Church has taught me and there has never been any mention of the Pope as God.  So when you provide something so off the mark and foreign I simply cannot trust it, especially considering your past errors in expressing the position of the Church on other matters and your reliance on questionable sources.

I will show you further proof, that the homosexual percentages claimed by the church are not reliable, what makes you think, the catechism is, concerning this teaching??

Sorry I can't understand the grammar here.  What are you asking?  I await any unbiased statistics you care to offer.  But I wonder why you have yet to respond to the unbiased appraisal of the situation I offered.  

Why is it you demand I respond to every quote you pull up from 500 years ago but you yourself fail to respond to the vast majority of my points?