Freedom of Speech

[nChrist]

TWalker Said:

My very first post here acknowledged that a lot of Christians feel that the ACLU is anti-Christian. I already know that. I want to know *why* and *what reason* and whether they are correct or mistaken, and I don't care how many people hold this opinion if there is no proof. On the other hand, if I find definitive proof, I'll post it here if you are interested, and then you can post it when someone who looks for facts not bias and opinions and questions almost everything (like me!) comes along.

TWalker,

Let's get real. You already know "why and what reason".

Are you intentionally being condescending? It is such a comfort to know that a person of your superior intellect will tell us when we are correct or mistaken in our opinions.  

I was just thinking about interest in hearing pro-ACLU propaganda. I didn't really think about it very long. I would rather take a 6 week seminar from Ted Kennedy on sobriety. The task of selling the ACLU to Christians would almost be as likely as selling satanism to Christians. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum, and the interest would be zero.

Many of us on the forum have lived long enough to know exactly what the ACLU has done to America, and I'm one of them. The vast majority of Christians view the ACLU about the same way they view mosquitoes. If the ACLU started spending all of their time in undoing the damage they've done to America, my opinion of them would change. Until then, I would seriously consider becoming a card carrying anti-ACLU member and putting up an anti-ACLU web site. Hearing pro-ACLU propaganda, especially on a Christian forum, would encourage an immediate decision for the web site and other actions.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 72:4 NASB  May he vindicate the afflicted of the people, Save the children of the needy And crush the oppressor.

[JudgeNot]

I would rather take a 6 week seminar from Ted Kennedy on sobriety.

Ha-ha!    I'm dying, here    Cut it out BEP - you know I have a "condition"!!  

Did you know that if Horace Greely was alive today to proclaim "Go west young man!" that half the male population of California would drown?

What that has to do with Teddy or this thread - I have no idea:  Other than it humorously demonstrates how some folks who may be considered 'smart' by some are simply the lead lemming to others.

When we ask the Lord "...lead me not into temptation" it is up to us not to lead ourselves or others into temptation or sin.
I gotta say - I believe that justifying the ACLU is equal to an attempt to justify sin.

Woe to the man who leads another astray.  According to all the scripture I've read, God doesn't appreciate someone leading His children into the dark.

Does God endorse the work of the ACLU?  Would anyone on this board allow the ACLU to dictate to you that your own children can talk to you only under ACLU terms rather than the family's terms?  Hmmmmm?

JudgeNot

[JudgeNot]

AND MAY I ADD...

Can you imagine, as a Christian, facing Jesus in your prayers and saying something like...

"I'm sorry I didn't pray to You at the school board meeting last night.  You see, there was a non-believer there, and if I had prayed to You, it might have hurt his feelings and the ACLU doesn't allow..."

Who is glorified in THAT excuse?  Certainly not Jesus!  As is the motto of the Christian Underground website:
"I will pray when I want, where I want, school, work, the street, the mall.  Persecute me at your own peril."

Supporting the ACLU denies Jesus' command to take His message to the ends of the earth.

Supporting the ACLU is not Godly.

Period.

You asked for a good reason why we, as Christians, are so against and can't support the ACLU?  If you need more reason than that, I can't help you.

Whew!
Thank You Lord for allowing me to get that out of my system!
AMEN!

God bless all,
JudgeNot

[nChrist]

JudgeNot Said:

"I'm sorry I didn't pray to You at the school board meeting last night.  You see, there was a non-believer there, and if I had prayed to You, it might have hurt his feelings and the ACLU doesn't allow..."

Who is glorified in THAT excuse?  Certainly not Jesus!  As is the motto of the Christian Underground website:
"I will pray when I want, where I want, school, work, the street, the mall.  Persecute me at your own peril."

JudgeNot,

I was just thinking that the ACLU would love to have any Christian activity underground and hidden as a first step, then working to eradicate that. I can see the need for a Christian Underground web site and would love to have the link to it. If the ACLU has it's way, who knows what America will be like in 20 years. As for me, I'm determined to shout the Gospel from the rooftops for however many years I have left. If I'm arrested for sharing the GOOD NEWS, so be it. Our Lord and Saviour suffered much more than that for us.

As I was reading your posts, I was reflecting on recent mandatory training in schools about alternative lifestyles, yet God has been shoved completely out. This is just one recent ACLU achievement that illustrates the goals of the ACLU. I might add this would be over and above the objections of parents. I can't remember the location right now, but it was in a recent story posted here. So far, the vast majority of the parents have refused to send their children to this training. If I have anything to say about it, my grandchildren will never attend training like this.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love in Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 NASB  For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

[nChrist]

Georgia Officials Face ACLU Lawsuit After Praying in Christ's Name

by Allie Martin
August 26, 2005

(AgapePress) - A Georgia county is being sued by the American Civil Liberties Union over its pre-meeting prayers. The suit claims one prayer at a recent Cobb County Commissioners' meeting ended "in the name of Jesus our Savior," which phrase, according to the ACLU puts the invocation in violation of the Constitution of the United States.

However, attorney Steve Crampton of the American Family Association Center for Law and Policy, protests that the Cobb County officials' prayers are entirely legal, and the commission members have the right to open meetings with prayers acknowledging Jesus if they so choose.

But unfortunately, the pro-family lawyer notes, "This is one of those areas where our separation of church and state fanatics have really made headway over the last several years with the argument that praying in Jesus' name before, in this case, a county commission meeting constitutes the establishment of religion, prohibited under the First Amendment."

Still, Crampton, a constitutional law specialist, points out that there is historical as well as legal precedent for this kind of prayer. "Of course, the reality of the matter is that this is a practice that has been honored throughout the history of our nation, from the first days of the Continental Congress till today," he says.

And as far as the courts are concerned, the AFA attorney adds, the highest court in the land has also weighed in. "The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1983 in the Marsh v. Chambers case that legislative prayers with a historical background are perfectly constitutional -- that we are a people that has long recognized the obedience and role of our government as being under God," he says.

The ACLU's suit claims the Cobb County Commissioners' prayers are offensive to five county residents. However, a spokesman for Cobb County is arguing that the officials' prayers are legal because they take place before the meetings and are entirely voluntary.
Allie Martin, a regular contributor to AgapePress, is a reporter for American Family Radio News, which can be heard online.

http://news.christiansunite.com/Religion_News/religion03228.shtml

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(My Note: Separation of Church and State is a manufactured lie by activist judges. For a tiny example, see one of my web pages:

http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/church.html  )