Republicans have not Banned Abortion?

[Tibby]

Ok, listen up, it is clear I sued a poor choice of words to discribe what I was trying to say, so I’m going to try and put it a different way, to see it if becomes more comrehendable. Here are the fact as they stand:

The GOP is not fighting abortion because we, the voters, have giving them mandates to fight other things, like Gay marriage and the war on Terror. This is a FACT.

If Bush can get those Conservative Judges in the Supreme court, they will end abortion. This is a FACT.

Congress need OUR support to help do the last two things mentioned, but we aren’t giving it to them because our support is for things like Gay marriage and the war on Terror. That is a fact.

I’m all for helping the unborn, but I can’t do it alone, I need your help to support the GOP, and your attitude clearly show no interest in helping them. That is a fact (2 facts, actaully, but who is counting?)



Brother Tom, this is a VERY serous issue to me. There is only one party in power that wants to end Abortion, and everyone is turning their back on them! How is that productive to ending abortion, I ask you? As someone who is very pro-life, I see this negative attitude to be VERY dangerous, something that could very well cause a weakening or even and end in the pro-life movement, that THAT is a VERY serous thing. I am sorry, Tom, I don't wish to start trouble, but I have to do my part to get people back with the GOP and fight the pro-choicers! It may be a “load of bull” but it is a “load of bull” that will keep unborn from dying, so it is worth a fight!

Asaph, all of your friends in this post clearly used my young age as a point against me, and here you are debating that the young are the ideal “the standard of the value of human life.” Maybe you need to have a little powwow with them, get this all cleared up. Or do we stop being a "standard of the value of human life" when we turn 18?

[asaph]

Quote from Tibby-
"Asaph, all of your friends in this post clearly used my young age as a point against me, and here you are debating that the young are the ideal “the standard of the value of human life.” Maybe you need to have a little powwow with them, get this all cleared up. Or do we stop being a "standard of the value of human life" when we turn 18?"

I know what you are feeling. When I was your age I hated it when someone would come into the auto parts store and refer to me as the "boy."  It infuriated me. But as I grew older I realized that they meant no harm by it. Calling you young man is no different. No harm intended. You belittling someone because they do not have a college education may not be the best approach to the issues. I have been through the university of hard knocks. I wonder what college can teach the things I have learned through life.
And besides you have not answered my point in my last post. My point being that life begins at conception. That life is totally dependant on us to protect it. they cannot protect themselves. Watch the silent scream video and maybe you will understand.
asaph

[Tibby]

I was not offended your use of “young man.” It was some of your friends who implying I did not have the right to hold an option contrary to theirs because I am young, that is what go to me. Paul told Timothy to not let people look down on him because he was younger, and that was a command to Timothy, not to his Elders. I will not let other look down on me because of my age. There are a large number of people their own age and older who agree with me, there are doctors with 20-40 years who agree with my side, and there are doctors that agree with your side. Because of this I know age and experience, while important, do not play as big a role in this issue as they are implying. My views are a result of my research, not my age. I am not defined by the time of my birth, and neither is anyone else here.

I did, in the past, attack people without a College education, but that before I attended college, or even graduated from High School. Sense that time, I have meet many out of college who deserve respect given to a professor, and even some in college who need to get a kick in the head to set them straight. College education, like age, does not have a big of a bearing as many place on it.

My father in his mid-50s, with has 2 Bachelors Degrees and a Masters. He spent 21 years in the military, even spent 3 in JSOC, as a medical unit of the Delta Force (but he never met Chuck Norris ), and has been all over the world. He was born Catholic, then converted to Pentecostal, then Baptist, then Charismatic, and now is Catholic again. He has been an Elder of many churches, an associate pastor once, and is now a Pastor. But you know what? Even he is still learning.

Thank you for your empathy, my friend. I really to appreciate it. This is a nice little tangent, but now lets get back to the topic at hand:



Ensoulment is an issue that many of debated for years. I think David said it best in Psalms 139 "...You knit me together in my mother's womb." Yes, I believe by the time the Blastula is formed, life has started. To believe otherwise is just unsound!

The issue I am trying to address is not whither or not abortion should be illegal, the issue I am trying to address is the one that FC brought up: why the Republicans are dragging their feet. I am trying to answer, and at the same time, defend some of the unfair assumptions made on the part of some of the members here. They want congress to solve all the worlds problems, but congress does not exist outside of time. Like everyone else, congress has a limited amount of time to get all the legation passed. And the first section of every new congress is spent on setting the budget for the fiscal year that starts in October, as that is their main Constitutional duty. After that, they have a limited about of time left to debate and address all the legislation before them, and if the things they vote don’t get pass the Executive or Judicial Branches, they have to do it all over again!

We, as in the American people as a whole, have been demeaning justice for 911, and that is a very time consuming thing. And while they where doing all of that, we, everyone right of center was demanding there be a Conditional Amendment banning gay marriage. If you are reading this, and you don’t know what is involved in making something a Conditional Amendment, I want you to stop reading and look it up. It is a VERY, VERY time consuming thing to make an Amendment (there is a reason there are so few). And don’t even get me started with the time and money involved in the Health care and Social Security issues!

My point is, we have been taking up their time with so MANY other issues. How is it fair of us to demand so much from them, and get mad when they can’t deliver 110% of what we want? The Republicans are in power, yes, but they are not holding a 2/3rds majority, and a lot of this stuff requires a 2/3rds just to win the right to get vetoed!
 
See what I’m trying to say? Of everyone who is getting worked up over Congresses lack of action in the Abortion issue, how many of you want to find Ben Laden? How many of you want a Gay Marriage Amendment? How many of you want the Government to help the poor with healthcare? How many of you want to keep Social Security intact? How many of you want the ballot problems to be fixed? How many of you want our troops to have the gear they need to do what they have to too protect us?  Look, I never said Abortion isn’t an important issue, but if you guys want Congress to do something, then you need to get their priorities straight. Right now, they think Gay Marriage and Social Security are on the top of your lists. If it isn’t, let them know!

[asaph]

I was not offended your use of “young man.” It was some of your friends who implying I did not have the right to hold an option contrary to theirs because I am young, that is what go to me. Paul told Timothy to not let people look down on him because he was younger, and that was a command to Timothy, not to his Elders. I will not let other look down on me because of my age. There are a large number of people their own age and older who agree with me, there are doctors with 20-40 years who agree with my side, and there are doctors that agree with your side. Because of this I know age and experience, while important, do not play as big a role in this issue as they are implying. My views are a result of my research, not my age. I am not defined by the time of my birth, and neither is anyone else here.

I did, in the past, attack people without a College education, but that before I attended college, or even graduated from High School. Sense that time, I have meet many out of college who deserve respect given to a professor, and even some in college who need to get a kick in the head to set them straight. College education, like age, does not have a big of a bearing as many place on it.

My father in his mid-50s, with has 2 Bachelors Degrees and a Masters. He spent 21 years in the military, even spent 3 in JSOC, as a medical unit of the Delta Force (but he never met Chuck Norris ), and has been all over the world. He was born Catholic, then converted to Pentecostal, then Baptist, then Charismatic, and now is Catholic again. He has been an Elder of many churches, an associate pastor once, and is now a Pastor. But you know what? Even he is still learning.

Thank you for your empathy, my friend. I really to appreciate it. This is a nice little tangent, but now lets get back to the topic at hand:



Ensoulment is an issue that many of debated for years. I think David said it best in Psalms 139 "...You knit me together in my mother's womb." Yes, I believe by the time the Blastula is formed, life has started. To believe otherwise is just unsound!

The issue I am trying to address is not whither or not abortion should be illegal, the issue I am trying to address is the one that FC brought up: why the Republicans are dragging their feet. I am trying to answer, and at the same time, defend some of the unfair assumptions made on the part of some of the members here. They want congress to solve all the worlds problems, but congress does not exist outside of time. Like everyone else, congress has a limited amount of time to get all the legation passed. And the first section of every new congress is spent on setting the budget for the fiscal year that starts in October, as that is their main Constitutional duty. After that, they have a limited about of time left to debate and address all the legislation before them, and if the things they vote don’t get pass the Executive or Judicial Branches, they have to do it all over again!

We, as in the American people as a whole, have been demeaning justice for 911, and that is a very time consuming thing. And while they where doing all of that, we, everyone right of center was demanding there be a Conditional Amendment banning gay marriage. If you are reading this, and you don’t know what is involved in making something a Conditional Amendment, I want you to stop reading and look it up. It is a VERY, VERY time consuming thing to make an Amendment (there is a reason there are so few). And don’t even get me started with the time and money involved in the Health care and Social Security issues!

My point is, we have been taking up their time with so MANY other issues. How is it fair of us to demand so much from them, and get mad when they can’t deliver 110% of what we want? The Republicans are in power, yes, but they are not holding a 2/3rds majority, and a lot of this stuff requires a 2/3rds just to win the right to get vetoed!
 
See what I’m trying to say? Of everyone who is getting worked up over Congresses lack of action in the Abortion issue, how many of you want to find Ben Laden? How many of you want a Gay Marriage Amendment? How many of you want the Government to help the poor with healthcare? How many of you want to keep Social Security intact? How many of you want the ballot problems to be fixed? How many of you want our troops to have the gear they need to do what they have to too protect us?  Look, I never said Abortion isn’t an important issue, but if you guys want Congress to do something, then you need to get their priorities straight. Right now, they think Gay Marriage and Social Security are on the top of your lists. If it isn’t, let them know!

Well put Tibby,
At the core of the whole problem is the unfortunate fact that most Amaricans want the feds to solve all our issues. The feds are more than happy to accommodate where posible. Leviathan loves control and so in exchange for control it gives us laws pertaining to moral issues.
We do not need a constitutional amendment to solve any of the issues mentioned on this thread. We simply need to follow the constitution as it stands.
Feds should not have their hands in the pie of abortion, gay marriage, education, church etc., etc..
All these issues need to be decided at the state or local levels.
I am certain that others disagree with me on this and it is not my desire to debate it. I am primarily a man of the scriptures and try to stay focused on that. Politics can be a real distraction to me if I let it. I use the weapon of prayer as my basic way to fight evil in this world.
I appreciate the fact that there are those who are closer to politics than I. But always be aware that evil is fought in the secret place of the Most High.

asaph

[Tibby]

Thanks, and right back at you. A lot of the Amendments we have already, we don’t need!

In truth, a law against a abortion is just going to send people back to the Butcher and Barber to get it done in the back room. What we need a a change in the people, not the law. This issue is just too hot for most on either side to talk about civilly. It truly saddens me to see people get so worked up over issues like this, where cool heads are of upmost importance in solving the problem!

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

In reflection, I probably shouldn't have said anything here. SO:

Have at it!

Helmets and flak-jackets optional.

[Soldier4Christ]

Tibby,

I do not believe that these problems would even be solved at the state and local levels either. As you said if these people want an abortion badly enough they will return to the "Butcher and Barber" methods. The only ones that it will stop are those that don't want to break laws.

As I have said many times and will many times more  .....

JESUS IS THE ANSWER.

[Reba]

Rebublicians are the majority party. What have they done? Allowed 7 demos to control the senate.

spent more $$$  But i thought democrats only spent...

GW is proud of working with ted the slim ball kennedy...

GW  is rightly compaired to JFK

I will look into the constitution party. Demos and Repubs have both been in DC too long.  

Who is playing footisy with hellery? Newt! I see socialism at every turn. It happens a little bit at a time like " a little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down."

I had hoped bill clinten was creepy enough to bring God's people to repentence,   2 Chronicles 7:14,  

[Soldier4Christ]

I see socialism at every turn. It happens a little bit at a time like " a little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down.

I'm not sure that I agree with the rest however socialism has been creeping in on us for many, many years. There isn't enough sugar available to make that medicine go down without gagging on it.

I, too, have considered another party. It would take quite a political conversion of many people to get any other party besides dems/repubs in office.

[asaph]

I have seen for a long time the handwriting on the wall. I have voted the constitution party the last two presidents.  But no matter who is in office we need to pray. Dare to be Daniels in a Chaldean world.

asaph

[Tibby]

Rebublicians are the majority party. What have they done? Allowed 7 demos to control the senate.

Yeah, Reba, that darn filibuster, uh? It is all the Republicans fault. They told the foundering fathers to start that, didn't they?. We should solve the problem by burning the Constitution, and just making a dictatorship where one party rules are, will you be happy then?

spent more $$$  But i thought democrats only spent...

Military campaigns are not Cheap. Either way, what is wrong with spending?

GW is proud of working with ted the slim ball kennedy...

Yeah, because it isn’t like this country was founded on the philosophy of Democracy or anything, right?

GW  is rightly compaired to JFK

Besides the womanizing (which is not a problem with Bush) what do you have against JFK?

I will look into the constitution party. Demos and Repubs have both been in DC too long.

How far have you looking into it. Have you read their full platform? What have they done good, other then stratch your ears?

Who is playing footisy with hellery? Newt!

So what? Newt is a nobody, now. Besides, just because you don't have the same veiws as someone doesn't mean you can't hang out with them. Jesus hung out with Sinners, even eat with them. As adelts, we should be able to put our issues aside, and say "I don't argee with you, but I still think you are an interesting person to spend time with."

I see socialism at every turn. It happens a little bit at a time like " a little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down."

Then you need to get your eyes checked. Socialism? You know what I see? I see that you have been taken in by the constitution party's anti-American propaganda.

I had hoped bill clinten was creepy enough to bring God's people to repentence,   2 Chronicles 7:14,  

[asaph]

Tibby, I think you said this?
"Then you need to get your eyes checked. Socialism? You know what I see? I see that you have been taken in by the constitution party's anti-American propaganda."

Huh? I do not like every thing I see in the constitution party, but anti american? Maybe anti modernism. They are seeking the old paths but we have gotten so far off those paths that people actually think they are anti american now. If you tell a lie long enough people actually begin to see it as truth. In fact many will call truth a lie and a lie truth. And they will put good for evil and evil for good. Sounds like Isaiah all over. But you know what they did to him-they sawed him in two.

asaph

[Tibby]

Yes, all you have to do is read their platform to see that they are no preaching the same doctrine as the Founding Fathers. The Constitution Party ideology is based on Right-wing Libertarianism, not historical facts. And they use the Constitution out of its own context. For better or worse, according to the Constitution, the Constitution is to be defined and interpreted by the Judicial Branch of the Government. Their Platform goes directly against some of the Supreme courts interpretation of the Constitution, which, ironically enough is not Constitutional! Interesting conundrum. By their very nature, they are contrary to themselves. Having parties is even unconstitutional. Washington even refused to name a party as President, he was so against the system.

So what are we to do, Tibby? We Support the Republicans who, unlike the Constitution Party, are trying to do something to correct the situation by bring in Conservative Judges. What has the Constitution Party done, besides take votes from the Republicans? NOTHING. Everyone says “The current parties not getting anywhere, so I’m going to support the Constitution Party!” But has anyone stopped to think what the Constitution Party has done so far? They done less then either party in Power has done! Even if the GOP falls and the Constitution Party take their place, the Democrats will have them deadlocked as well (even more so, because such a shift of power like that, from one party to the next, would make the Right weak, and the Left would take control), and we would be back to where we started, with the Rightwingers and Leftwingers fighting to get the opposite thing done, and canceling each other out. The problem the Constitution Party is trying to fix can only be fixed by changing the Constitution, which is also ironic, because that is against the party platform. I support writing a Constitutional amendment, making a Euro-style Congress, with a multipartisan system.

I do not believe that if you tell a lie long enough people actually begin to see it as truth for the simple fact that, out of the big 5 religions in the world, Christianity is the youngest. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism have been around much longer, and we have a LONG ways to go before these lies are reviled as truth. How long have Zodacs and fortune tellers been around for? Sorry, but there are a lot of lies that have been going on for over a millennium, and still exist, unhindered by truth.

[Reba]

Article III. - The Judicial Branch Note
Section 1 - Judicial powers
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials
(The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.) (This section in parentheses is modified by Amendment XI.)
In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Section 3 - Treason Note
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

 Can anyone find the words in the Constitution that say, or imply, the  Constitution is to be defined and interpreted by the Judicial Branch of the Government

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article3

[Tibby]

What do you think the job of a judiciary is, Reba? They did not put it in the constitution because everyone is aware of the fact that they primary concern of any Judiciary in any country is the interpretation and administration of acts, laws, bills, constitutions, etc. And the Government, as well as any teacher of History and Government from first grade all the way up to Graduate level college agrees with me. Your question is like asking where is says that the Army is suppose to fight wars. No one HAS to say it, it is in the very definition of an Army is fight a war.

Remember, the constitution is not the Bible, Reba, it is not infallible, I believe this is the main fallacy of the Constitution party. I know, this isn’t a popular idea, but if the first try at writing a paper to run a Government by failed miserable, why should we assume the second is so much better? Men wrote the Constitution, Reba, not God. Womanizing, alcoholic, slave-owning men, who didn’t want to pay their taxes.