Election 2004!

[Allinall]

Welcome back La Vie B!  Now, just to set the record straight...

...if you believe in growing babies to kill for their stem cells...vote for Kerry.

...if you believe that it's best to save the mother's life, with, or without her approval, by crushing the skull of her baby while it is being born...vote Kerry.

...if you believe that Adam and Steve have every right to be a married couple in the eyes of God and in the law of this land...vote Kerry.

...if you have a moral bone in your body...don't vote Kerry.  Vote Bush.


   WB!!!!

What difference does it make that Bush believes in the same moral values that we christian conservatives believe in?!.....The question is; Has he done anything to restore moral values to our country?  Have ANY of the "conservative" Presidents we've elected done that?   Have they appointed christian conservative judges who would overturn abortion, etc?  

I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for forty-two years for one of those "conservative" Presidents whom we've elected to restore prayer to our nation's schools, but it hasn't happened yet, and it never will.

Same thing with legal "abortions", which have been on the books for some 30 years now.....NO PRESIDENT, regardless his personal conviction, is going to go against the laws of our land, and attempt to overthrow those laws....not even your beloved George Bush.....He's already proven that!, and so have the others before him.

On the other hand, John Kerry is no better...but AT LEAST he has enough decency to admit to us that he's not going to attempt to change those laws which are already on the books, whereas Bush does not.

The problem is; you, like all my fellow christian conservatives, are looking for a "political" savior to get us out of the immoral quagmire which America is in, and sad to say, you're not going to find one.



   

Wrong.  I see a man standing for what he believes, and for Who he believes in.  He's not perfect.  He's operating in a system that he doesn't have complete control over.  He has to jump through the same hoops every other president has had to jump through, and maintain a working non-partisan government.  The problem is that the Democrats are as partisaned in their politics as they come.  To make matters worse, when a Democrat is president, the Republic become entrenched in their political views and all we have is struggle.  The government needs to work together.  Bush shows evidence of that actually taking place at times.  I have yet to see a Democrat (in recent years) who can claim the same thing.

I'm not looking for a political savior.  I have my King.  I'm simply looking for a politician who recognizes the Savior, claims Him, and is claimed by Him.  I see that in Bush, and hence he will get my vote.  

I'll be a bit more pointed here, but I have a real problem with those who claim Christ supporting Kerry.  It's claiming Christ in the pew and everything Christ is against in the world.  No man can serve two masters and it's about time we stopped trying.  Vote for what is right, not what you think or feel is right.  

"Bush doesn't help me out in health care."  Is God in control of your health or is Bush?  Is God in control of your money or is Bush?  Does God meet you needs or does Bush?  Does Kerry?  Does the U.S. government?  

"Bush got us into a war that's killing our children!"  I have three personal friends who have either gone, or are going to Iraq.  I have two other personal friends who serve in the MP's in training camps here in the U.S.  Do I like war?  No.  But I also know Who's in control of the lives of every living being, and it's not Bush.  It's not the Iraqi insurgents.  It's God.

"Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction!"  He has said he operated on the same information as did the U.S. Congress in deciding to invade, as did the British government when they decided to invade, and as did the existing coalition of the time when they decided to invade.  Many nations - all of whom now are ignored because Bush "lied."  Doesn't add up.  Either Bush is the antichrist or he had the same faulty information everyone else had and acted upon as well.  An old professor of mine said this, "There are 4 things true of any man God ever used.  He was hated by the world.  He was hated by carnal Christians.  He was loved by God, and he was loved by those who love God."

My simple point is this: GOD is in control.  We are looking at the hard times and viewing Kerry as the "political savior" you mentioned, to the exclusion of the values we claim to have.  We bash Bush for feelings we have about this war, the economy, and many other things, rather than praying for the man God has set up.  You may say you are praying.  I say if you're praying then your mouth can't be active in trashing the man.

My soapbox is giving me vertigo, so I'll step down now...

[Tim Vaughan]

But I also know Who's in control of the lives of every living being, and it's not Bush.  It's not the Iraqi insurgents.  It's God.

You make God the author of sin. You say, in effect, that it doesn't matter what Bush does since God is in control. Bad theology and bad logic.

[psalmistsinger]

Truth is that if Christians would simply VOTE their morality, their character, the election wouldn't even be close. Abortion, homosexuality, etc, should be enough for Christians to vote for whatever candidate takes the stand that lines up biblically with these issues.

Far too many Christians vote for their political party instead of asking themselves why? How? How do Christians support that which God despises? It is not a political party that deserves a Christian's allegiance, but what saith the Lord our God! Not to mention the Christians who won't vote; who live in this country that God has blessed with FREEDOM, where they can make a difference, and refuse to make a Godly stand  

In this country not voting for the right is voting for the wrong! Something like 38 million Christians didn't vote in 2000 - another election that should not have been close.

Why does the USA have the moral problems it does today? Because evil men out number the good? NO! Because Christians, again and again, have been willing to sell their birthright for a mess of pottage; to sell out what is right for a political party that promises economic prosperity while tearing at the righteous foundation that we as Christians say we stand on.

I firmly believe that if Christians would stand united then both political party's would return to the morality of our fore-fathers. If the party that constantly stands opposed to Godliness were to realize that they would never again gain power without being moral I am convinced they would suddenly find it expedient to be moral. Once upon a time political parties disagreed simply on economic matters and the like, but had a shared morality. That day has passed.

If only Christians would stand united. But they didn't in the 60's and prayer in schools is gone. They didn't in the 70's and now we have legalized abortion. They didn't in the 80's and 90's and now homosexual civil unions, even marriage, is seriously discussed. Will Christians unite on Nov 2, 2004?

I won't hold my breath. Too many will vote for the devil and call it for "the working man".


I pray God has mercy on us again.

[Andrew Fritz]

Welcome back La Vie B!  Now, just to set the record straight...

...if you believe in growing babies to kill for their stem cells...vote for Kerry.

...if you believe that it's best to save the mother's life, with, or without her approval, by crushing the skull of her baby while it is being born...vote Kerry.

...if you believe that Adam and Steve have every right to be a married couple in the eyes of God and in the law of this land...vote Kerry.

...if you have a moral bone in your body...don't vote Kerry.  Vote Bush.


   WB!!!!

What difference does it make that Bush believes in the same moral values that we christian conservatives believe in?!.....The question is; Has he done anything to restore moral values to our country?  Have ANY of the "conservative" Presidents we've elected done that?   Have they appointed christian conservative judges who would overturn abortion, etc?  

I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for forty-two years for one of those "conservative" Presidents whom we've elected to restore prayer to our nation's schools, but it hasn't happened yet, and it never will.

Same thing with legal "abortions", which have been on the books for some 30 years now.....NO PRESIDENT, regardless his personal conviction, is going to go against the laws of our land, and attempt to overthrow those laws....not even your beloved George Bush.....He's already proven that!, and so have the others before him.

On the other hand, John Kerry is no better...but AT LEAST he has enough decency to admit to us that he's not going to attempt to change those laws which are already on the books, whereas Bush does not.

The problem is; you, like all my fellow christian conservatives, are looking for a "political" savior to get us out of the immoral quagmire which America is in, and sad to say, you're not going to find one.



   

I would like to mention one point that you missed. It's the most important reason we need to elect a leader with strong moral convictions. The U.S. Supreme Court has turned itself into a trump card for anything that the state and national legislatures do. Currenlty, the Supreme Court is split down the middles when it comes to morality, with a slight lean toward immorality. As I speak right now, we are in once of the longest periods of time since a justice has retied. It is almost without doubt that one of more of them will retire during the next presidency.

I'm telling you, if you have a pro abortion liberal in the White House, he will do more damage by appointing a bad judges than anything he could do in congress. Because in congress, at least things are voted on, and the people can voice their concerns. In the court system, judges are "gods" without review.

Remember, it has been judges, not presidents or congress, that have legalized abortion, banned the ten comments from display, stopped laws banning sodomy, and removed bible reading and prayer from the schools.

The biggest danger to our country is that a moral judge will retire from the Supreme Court, and a liberal one will replace him. After that my friends, you will NEVER get a constitutionally correct ruling on moral issues. That will be the final piece in the breakdown of this country; the worst thing that has happened in the last 100 years. Because never before has the supreme court taken such liberties to out-step it's boundaries by twisting the meaning of the constitution to match the opinions of the judges on the court. Vote and pray for this election. Our country is truly at stake.

[Allinall]

But I also know Who's in control of the lives of every living being, and it's not Bush.  It's not the Iraqi insurgents.  It's God.

You make God the author of sin. You say, in effect, that it doesn't matter what Bush does since God is in control. Bad theology and bad logic.

When did I say that?  I said that God is in control of every life.  Read Hebrews 1:3 to find out Who controls life and death.  Read the Psalms as well.  Our lives are in His hand.  Not Bush's.  And I also didn't say that it doesn't matter what Bush does or doesn't.  What he does will have just consequence, but nothing he does will change God's plan for man.  It will all be worked out sovereignly by our sovereign God.  Not bad theology.  Biblical theology.  Not bad logic.  Good, biblical understanding.  Neither of which I'm seeing in your posts my friend.  

[Allinall]

Welcome back La Vie B!  Now, just to set the record straight...

...if you believe in growing babies to kill for their stem cells...vote for Kerry.

...if you believe that it's best to save the mother's life, with, or without her approval, by crushing the skull of her baby while it is being born...vote Kerry.

...if you believe that Adam and Steve have every right to be a married couple in the eyes of God and in the law of this land...vote Kerry.

...if you have a moral bone in your body...don't vote Kerry.  Vote Bush.


   WB!!!!

What difference does it make that Bush believes in the same moral values that we christian conservatives believe in?!.....The question is; Has he done anything to restore moral values to our country?  Have ANY of the "conservative" Presidents we've elected done that?   Have they appointed christian conservative judges who would overturn abortion, etc?  

I don't know about you, but I've been waiting for forty-two years for one of those "conservative" Presidents whom we've elected to restore prayer to our nation's schools, but it hasn't happened yet, and it never will.

Same thing with legal "abortions", which have been on the books for some 30 years now.....NO PRESIDENT, regardless his personal conviction, is going to go against the laws of our land, and attempt to overthrow those laws....not even your beloved George Bush.....He's already proven that!, and so have the others before him.

On the other hand, John Kerry is no better...but AT LEAST he has enough decency to admit to us that he's not going to attempt to change those laws which are already on the books, whereas Bush does not.

The problem is; you, like all my fellow christian conservatives, are looking for a "political" savior to get us out of the immoral quagmire which America is in, and sad to say, you're not going to find one.



   

I would like to mention one point that you missed. It's the most important reason we need to elect a leader with strong moral convictions. The U.S. Supreme Court has turned itself into a trump card for anything that the state and national legislatures do. Currenlty, the Supreme Court is split down the middles when it comes to morality, with a slight lean toward immorality. As I speak right now, we are in once of the longest periods of time since a justice has retied. It is almost without doubt that one of more of them will retire during the next presidency.

I'm telling you, if you have a pro abortion liberal in the White House, he will do more damage by appointing a bad judges than anything he could do in congress. Because in congress, at least things are voted on, and the people can voice their concerns. In the court system, judges are "gods" without review.

Remember, it has been judges, not presidents or congress, that have legalized abortion, banned the ten comments from display, stopped laws banning sodomy, and removed bible reading and prayer from the schools.

The biggest danger to our country is that a moral judge will retire from the Supreme Court, and a liberal one will replace him. After that my friends, you will NEVER get a constitutionally correct ruling on moral issues. That will be the final piece in the breakdown of this country; the worst thing that has happened in the last 100 years. Because never before has the supreme court taken such liberties to out-step it's boundaries by twisting the meaning of the constitution to match the opinions of the judges on the court. Vote and pray for this election. Our country is truly at stake.

Excellent post Brother!  And true, Kerry has said that he would appoint liberal, pro-abortion judges to the Supreme Court if elected.  That's one of his campaign promises.  Thanks for pointing that out!

[nChrist]

AMEN PSALMISTSINGER!!

Brother, it's nice to hear from you, and I must quote your entire post again. I ask every Christian to read this, pray, and stand up.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Truth is that if Christians would simply VOTE their morality, their character, the election wouldn't even be close. Abortion, homosexuality, etc, should be enough for Christians to vote for whatever candidate takes the stand that lines up biblically with these issues.

Far too many Christians vote for their political party instead of asking themselves why? How? How do Christians support that which God despises? It is not a political party that deserves a Christian's allegiance, but what saith the Lord our God! Not to mention the Christians who won't vote; who live in this country that God has blessed with FREEDOM, where they can make a difference, and refuse to make a Godly stand  

In this country not voting for the right is voting for the wrong! Something like 38 million Christians didn't vote in 2000 - another election that should not have been close.

Why does the USA have the moral problems it does today? Because evil men out number the good? NO! Because Christians, again and again, have been willing to sell their birthright for a mess of pottage; to sell out what is right for a political party that promises economic prosperity while tearing at the righteous foundation that we as Christians say we stand on.

I firmly believe that if Christians would stand united then both political party's would return to the morality of our fore-fathers. If the party that constantly stands opposed to Godliness were to realize that they would never again gain power without being moral I am convinced they would suddenly find it expedient to be moral. Once upon a time political parties disagreed simply on economic matters and the like, but had a shared morality. That day has passed.

If only Christians would stand united. But they didn't in the 60's and prayer in schools is gone. They didn't in the 70's and now we have legalized abortion. They didn't in the 80's and 90's and now homosexual civil unions, even marriage, is seriously discussed. Will Christians unite on Nov 2, 2004?

I won't hold my breath. Too many will vote for the devil and call it for "the working man".


I pray God has mercy on us again.

[nChrist]

AMEN BROTHER ALLINALL!!!

Mature Christians understand exactly what you said. My King and LORD is Jesus Christ. Brother, I am most happy to be my LORD's servant.



AMEN BROTHER ANDREW FRITZ!!!

I just read an article about your work in Christians Unite's "Christian Web Life". I hope and pray that many thousands of Christians will read it, pray, and stand up. I said it was your work, but I believe it is GOD's work in and through you. Christians have a duty to vote. Some are calling evil good and good evil. Silence from Christians is actually wishing the devil well. I'm praying that every Christian studies the issues, prays, prays some more, STANDS UP!!!, and VOTES!!! I'm asking all Christians to read your web site and share it with others. I'm also asking all Christians to pray for the future of our country.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[nChrist]

From Christian Web Life:

2.) Christians Need To Vote
 
    When you let ungodly leaders and politicians follow their natural aspirations, they will always end up at the door of big government, where personal liberties like freedom of religion, speech, and property ownership are few. But what you'll notice first is the banishment of God and morality from society. If you think this hasn't already been the trend in America, then I plead with you to examine these things.
 
    FACT: Only 59% of all born again Christians voted in the last presidential election.
 
    FACT: In the 2000 election, 42% of Christians decided to cast a ballot for Al Gore.
 
    FACT: Out of 34 million non voting Christians, 21 million were registered and simply had to go to the polls.
 
    TRUTH: If only just a small % of Christians realized how crucial their vote is, America could be taken back in one election cycle.
 
    TRUTH: In the next 4 years, the president will be making the most important decision that will affect the future of this country. That of selecting up to FOUR replacement judges for the supreme court.
 
    REALITY: The good news is that the bad news isn't that bad: Christians could easily elect a great majority of godly leaders. The bad news is that no one has taken this good news seriously.
 
    ...Until Now.
 
    Every Christian needs to go to the polls on November 2nd and vote! There is so much at stake in this country, and your vote will definitely make a real impact.
 
    Please take just a brief moment to visit this website for more information, and to see how you can help.
 
http://christiansneedtovote.com/

[Tim Vaughan]

When you let ungodly leaders and politicians follow their natural aspirations, they will always end up at the door of big government, where personal liberties like freedom of religion, speech, and property ownership are few.

The modern Republican party is the party of big government and big spending.

I am glad for the tax cuts, though. I can make 60 thousand a year and pay no taxes thanks to my 7 kids. But the money has to come from somewhere. A quarter trillion just in Iraq/Afganistan, with the defecit the hugest in history.

I suggest to the board that it can't go on like this, and to keep out of debt, and invest in something you can control yourself. That's why I do beekeeping on the side, because eventually there is going to be a traumatic problem with our monetary system.

Goldwater was great, you don't spend what you don't have. But the modern Republicans have left traditional conservative values far behind. The best policy is not to vote at all in this presidental election to send a protest out.

[Andrew Fritz]

When you let ungodly leaders and politicians follow their natural aspirations, they will always end up at the door of big government, where personal liberties like freedom of religion, speech, and property ownership are few.

The modern Republican party is the party of big government and big spending.

I am glad for the tax cuts, though. I can make 60 thousand a year and pay no taxes thanks to my 7 kids. But the money has to come from somewhere. A quarter trillion just in Iraq/Afganistan, with the defecit the hugest in history.

I suggest to the board that it can't go on like this, and to keep out of debt, and invest in something you can control yourself. That's why I do beekeeping on the side, because eventually there is going to be a traumatic problem with our monetary system.

Goldwater was great, you don't spend what you don't have. But the modern Republicans have left traditional conservative values far behind. The best policy is not to vote at all in this presidental election to send a protest out.

My friend that is a foolish decision. Please reconsider. You are only helping the decline of our nation. While you worry about financial issues our country is being dragged into moral decline. I can't explain in words how I am grieved to hear you say that. This wonderful nation is suffering at the hands of liberal judges and leaders every single day. We need your precious vote. Please take an honest look at your ideas. They aren't right! You must see how critical this election is. Don't have to look back at this mistake. If there was ever an election on which hangs the future of our nation, this is it.

[nChrist]

Tim Vaughn Said:

Goldwater was great, you don't spend what you don't have. But the modern Republicans have left traditional conservative values far behind. The best policy is not to vote at all in this presidental election to send a protest out.

 

Right???, that's exactly what the devil wants all Christians to do.

[Tim Vaughan]

Sure, the Devil wants me to stay home, and God wants me to vote for someone who takes my money and gives it to people who experiment with murdered babies.

[Soldier4Christ]

Tim Vaughn Said:

Goldwater was great, you don't spend what you don't have. But the modern Republicans have left traditional conservative values far behind. The best policy is not to vote at all in this presidental election to send a protest out.

 

Right???, that's exactly what the devil wants all Christians to do.

I think you hit the nail on the head. He wants us to beleive he is a Christian yet the majority of his posts indicate elsewise, that he wants us all to do the devils bidding by not voting so the devil can have his way and that we should all turn our backs on atrocities in other countries. He indicates that he is a military tactician by putting down someone for their tactical ideas. He may be knowledgeable in history but he has learned nothing good from history. He thinks he knows how I stand on politics but he doesn't have an inkling. He calls my stance (what he tinks it is) as dangerous to the world. I say that his stance is dangerous as it will let Satan have more control in this world.

[Tim Vaughan]

I think you hit the nail on the head. He wants us to beleive he is a Christian yet the majority of his posts indicate elsewise, that he wants us all to do the devils bidding by not voting so the devil can have his way and that we should all turn our backs on atrocities in other countries.

If you knew how little I cared about your belief concerning my salvation, your hair would stand straight up in shock.

The majority of my posts? Well, I don't worship George Bush, and frankly think him a simple minded fool, but aside from your claiming to know the motives of the Devil you haven't even demonstrated, or even tried to demonstrate one instance of where my theology differs from historic, orthodox Christian teaching.