Confused

[Tibby]

Am I being a bad Christian if I examine the claims of other beliefs?

Yes and no. Yes, you should question. If you do not question things yourself, how can you answer the question of others? If the Bible and Christianity is true, it will hold up to any question you can throw at it.

Surely God wants me to KNOW the truth rather than just believe it because I'm told to...

Now the "no" comes... Be mindful of the fact that Christianity is based on the idea of believing in something without having the proof right in front of you. This is called Faith. Faith is such a strong part of the Christian system of beliefs, we someimes referrers to it as “the Faith.”

[ebia]

I guess that what is happening to me at the moment is that I am wanting to look beyond the Bible for evidence that what it says is true. Does God not want us to explore the world? I am a bit afraid that the evidence out there might contradict the word of the Bible but surely to not look at it is not honest?

I want to know the truth and I'm hoping that someone will tell me that that's ok with God. As much as I love reading Gods word I don't feel happy with not being allowed to examine the evidence for other views. I'm hoping that I'll find that the evidence points to my faith being correct, but surely God gave us minds for a reason.

Am I being a bad Christian if I examine the claims of other beliefs?
Surely God wants me to KNOW the truth rather than just believe it because I'm told to...

The truth can take any amount of examination.

That doesn't mean that you are going to find incontravertable evidence for faith through logic or science.  What you will find heaps of, is evidence against a distorted or naieve faith.   The truth, whatever it is, will be consistant with what we can learn from the bible and what we can learn from God's creation.

[nChrist]

I guess that what is happening to me at the moment is that I am wanting to look beyond the Bible for evidence that what it says is true. Does God not want us to explore the world? I am a bit afraid that the evidence out there might contradict the word of the Bible but surely to not look at it is not honest?

Oklahoma Howdy to Alice,

A lot of this is like questioning mom and dad about why they told you to keep your hand out of the fire. If you question mom and dad and stick your hand in the fire, you will be burned. The devil may try to convince you that some of the things in the Holy Bible are contradicted, but that would only be the lies of man and the devil.

In terms of looking, exploring, and trying various things, the devil would love for you to do that. The devil would tell you to try it all, that the Bible is a lie, your parents lied to you, etc. The devil wants you to do dope, alcohol, sex outside the bonds of Holy marriage, find reasons to put your Bible away, and many other things. In fact, the devil would love for you to explore satanism and the occult. If you do, you will get burned. All of the things in this paragraph are evil, and there are many more things of the world that are evil. Surely you don't think that any Christian is going to tell you that God thinks it's OK to go try all of these things, do you? If someone tells you to go try these things and explore these evil things of the world, they are not Christians, rather they work for the devil. You thinking about exploring the things of this world is the devil working in your mind. The devil just loves, "If it's fun or feels good, do it!"

OK, now you have the perspective of an old Christian who many would call a fundamentalist. No, you should never question God, His Word, or His Promises. You should study them and try to understand them, but first you should accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. Instead, are you here to learn about homosexuals and evolution? You can learn about that type of evil just about anywhere, and we don't teach evil here. Would you like to know about Jesus Christ?

Tom

[PhilMun]

and, if you do not know how to accept Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, I found this site the best and simple: http://www.his-amazing-love.org/sarah.html

and, you may send this site to your friends and beloveds as a New Year gift!

Blessings in the Lord!

[alice]

Now the "no" comes... Be mindful of the fact that Christianity is based on the idea of believing in something without having the proof right in front of you. This is called Faith. Faith is such a strong part of the Christian system of beliefs, we someimes referrers to it as “the Faith.”

I'm not saying that I need proof. I am happy to believe many things without proof. Just evidence that anyone would agree supports my belief. If the evidence disagrees with something in which you have faith, can't it mean your faith is wrong?

After all millions of muslims have faith in their beliefs (so much that many are prepared to die for them). I believe that their beliefs are wrong but they would say they have faith too. They would also say that the word of the Koran is supported by historical evidence.
We can't both be right. Why is our faith truer than theirs.
Sorry to post difficult questions but I don't know where else to go at the moment.

[alice]

In terms of looking, exploring, and trying various things, the devil would love for you to do that. The devil would tell you to try it all, that the Bible is a lie, your parents lied to you, etc. The devil wants you to do dope, alcohol, sex outside the bonds of Holy marriage, find reasons to put your Bible away, and many other things. In fact, the devil would love for you to explore satanism and the occult. If you do, you will get burned. All of the things in this paragraph are evil, and there are many more things of the world that are evil. Surely you don't think that any Christian is going to tell you that God thinks it's OK to go try all of these things, do you? If someone tells you to go try these things and explore these evil things of the world, they are not Christians, rather they work for the devil. You thinking about exploring the things of this world is the devil working in your mind. The devil just loves, "If it's fun or feels good, do it!"

OK, now you have the perspective of an old Christian who many would call a fundamentalist. No, you should never question God, His Word, or His Promises. You should study them and try to understand them, but first you should accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. Instead, are you here to learn about homosexuals and evolution? You can learn about that type of evil just about anywhere, and we don't teach evil here. Would you like to know about Jesus Christ?

Tom

Tom, thank you for the reply

I do want to know about Jesus Christ. I do accept Him as my saviour, I just want to know how to reconcile the fact that there is strong evidence against the claims of the Bible with my belief. Simply not looking at the evidence wont make it go away. I'd just be kidding myself. I can't believe that is what God would want.

I am not interested in doing evil things but the quest for truth through a careful considered and reasoned approach can't be evil surely? Is that what Christianity teaches us?

[2nd Timothy]

This reminds me in many ways how Adam and Eve were decieved.   They had everything they could ever want and need to sustain their lives and relationship with God.  Yet, they chose to believe that God had witheld something from them by forbiding them from eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  This doubt allowed them to be deceived and thus die spiritually and eventually physically.

There is historical proof that a man named Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago and was crucified on the cross, that his followers gave their lives in horrible deaths because they had seen a risen Lord.  Not because they wanted to decieve many throughout history.  

Consider this.  What do other religions offer their followers?   Religion is mans attemtp to reach God.   Jesus was Gods attempt to reach man.  That truth is staring you in the face, and yet your friends and Satan have placed a seed of doubt in your heart, and have blinded you to the truth.  You will never find salvation amongst religious folks.   You will only find men attempting to make themselves acceptable to God in futility.  Jesus is the only one who is acceptable to God, and is Gods sacrificial lamb for your sins Alice.   Without the gift that God himself provided, you will stand before him in on your own accord.  

I assure you that you will never convince God almighty that the beating, abuse, insulting, crown of thorns being pressed into his head, nails driven through the hands and feet, and crucified body of HIS holy son, served no purpose for you because you have found righteousness equal to Gods on your own through careful consideration and self wisdom.   I can honestly say that God would not be pleased with your decision to overlook a price he would have paid just for you....(yes everything that he went through, everyone of us deserve because of our sin!)  in favor of testing mens religious ideas of how to please God.

Even though I do not know you personally, I sense that God is dealing with your heart.  You may not know this, but God  laid a burden on my heart for you yesterday Alice.   I feel that all truth has not come forth in this thread, but thats OK.  God knows your complete situation.  He knows everything about you.  He loves you more than you know, and he wants to help you.   He wants so much for you to have the peace and assurance that you seek.   All you have to do is let him.  Saying you merely believe in him is not enough.  Even the devil believes in Jesus.  You have to turn your life over to him, ask him into your heart and let him take charge of your life.  I promise, that if you do this, you will have peace, assurance, and happiness like you have never felt before.  All this doubt and confusion will cease.

I know all this seems odd over a message forum, and I am not trying to embarrass anyone, but I really believe God is speaking to your heart.  If you want this peace that I speak of, all you have to do is say this prayer and mean it...

Dear God, I know that I am a sinner.  My life is not pleasing to you Lord.  But I know that your Son took my place on the cross.  Forgive me Lord for my sins.  I ask you to come into my life right now.  I receive your gift of salvation, and I give my life to you right now.  I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Amen!

If you prayed this prayer, I want you to send me a message saying that you did.  It can be a private message if you like.

I will be praying for you Alice.  Please don't wait.  Jesus is there where ever you are right now.  Invite him into your heart today!  You wont be sorry you did.

Grace and Peace!

[Sower]

I guess that what is happening to me at the moment is that I am wanting to look beyond the Bible for evidence that what it says is true.

Before you look beyond the Bible, you must be firmly grounded in God's Word, and since so-called "science" is able to shake your faith, it is clear that you are still not grounded, neither do you believe that Satan is involved in this, since you have not acknowledged that fact. Also, the Bible is it's own proof.  Looking beyond it will take you down the path of delusion.

Does God not want us to explore the world? I am a bit afraid that the evidence out there might contradict the word of the Bible but surely to not look at it is not honest?

.

The same God who gave us the Bible also created the uinverse, therefore you and I will never find any contradictions between "true" science and the Scriptures. However, the lies of Satan and the lies of men have created many theories which have great appeal because Satan "blinds" the minds of people so that they will not see the truth. So exploring the world and looking for facts will not harm your faith, but believing lies disguised as truth will.

I want to know the truth and I'm hoping that someone will tell me that that's ok with God. As much as I love reading Gods word I don't feel happy with not being allowed to examine the evidence for other views. I'm hoping that I'll find that the evidence points to my faith being correct, but surely God gave us minds for a reason.

A baby learns to crawl before he or she walks, and you must do the same spiritually. Before you examine other faiths and other philosophies, you should thoroughly know what God says. Are you thoroughly grounded in the Word of God?  The Christian's faith is not a "blind" faith but is based on Bible facts and Bible truth but centered on a Person -- Christ.

Am I being a bad Christian if I examine the claims of other beliefs? Surely God wants me to KNOW the truth rather than just believe it because I'm told to...

No one would suggest that you believe anything because you are "told to".  However, if an unbeliever could shake you faith in God's Word so easily, by pointing out so-called "inconsistencies", it is now your duty before God to get to know Him and His Word better.  God is absolutely holy and righteous, He is also absolutely merciful and gracious, and His wisdom is infinite. God would not and could not mislead humans. But He has allowed His adversary Satan some freedom "for a season", and Satan will trip you up each time you take your eyes off the Lord and look to human reason for an answer.

[Symphony]

Why is our faith truer than theirs.


B/c of the evidence, alice.   And more is being discovered regularly(due to increasing mid-east excavation to build highways, etc., and hi-tech methods enabling exacting cross-referencing and dating of various discoveries--critics are literally being forced to eat more and more crow.  The palaces of the OT's King Sargon II were thought by the 1830s to be fictious(part of the higher criticism movement); until British Army officers discovered them in the 1850s.  )

Not just physical, written, evidence.  'Tho that's a part of it(note the archaelogy thread here under Apologetics).


What part of the gospel doesn't make sense to you

--intuitively?

God offering His only Son, out of love for us, to save us from our stark rebellion to Him?

Perhaps He isn't a loving God.  Perhaps He's a hating one, or just an indifferent one.

Or perhaps He doesn't even exist.  Thus making us God.

And if we're God, which one of us is?  And where is the evidence?  

We all seem to keep dying.

[alice]

I find it hard to accept that God would create a world where the evidence didn't match his word. If he did that, He would be deliberately fooling us and a kind God wouldn't do that.

If this is all just the work of Satan, why does God let Satan turn people away from the right way. Doesn't God want us to be saved? Does God have the power to create us in such a way that we would choose him rather than Satan?

I am very troubled by things I have read on the internet today.

I wish so much that I could just go back to how I was before, but I need answers to my questions.

[nChrist]

Alice,

This is the standard line of questions trolls are taught to use in distrupting Christian Forums. We have a near duplicate thread going now, and we've seen this many times before. Even the topic name has been close or the same many times before. I really doubt it is much of a coincidence.

I hope you find Jesus along the way.

Tom

[alice]

I don't know what a troll is but it is certainly not my intention to disrupt anything or anyone.

I am in a situation where I have had certain things pointed out to me that have made me question my faith. I have come here seeking answers to resolve this struggle.

All you are telling me is not to ask the questions.

I'm truly sorry if I've caused offence in any way. I mean no disruption. It is precisely for fear of this reaction that I have not approached the Pastor at my church.

Tom, Do you want me to stop posting on the site?

Alice

[Dyskolos]

Hi, I hope you don't mind me butting in.

I just registered yesterday, after lurking for a while - I've read quite a few of the threads here, and I find this habit of the moderator calling people names a little disturbing.

Alice may or may not be a 'troll', but so far I haven't seen any evidence of such a thing. If she is sincerely looking for answers and is put off by the insinuation that she is a 'troll', I think the moderator may have done a terrible thing.

Even if she is a 'troll' there are probably many people reading the responses to her questions that will benefit.

Frankly I think a responsible moderator should be a little more temperate.

[nChrist]

Alice,

Tom, Do you want me to stop posting on the site?

Alice

Post all you want and ask what you want.

Tom

[ollie]

I don't know what a troll is but it is certainly not my intention to disrupt anything or anyone.

I am in a situation where I have had certain things pointed out to me that have made me question my faith. I have come here seeking answers to resolve this struggle.

All you are telling me is not to ask the questions.

I'm truly sorry if I've caused offence in any way. I mean no disruption. It is precisely for fear of this reaction that I have not approached the Pastor at my church.

Tom, Do you want me to stop posting on the site?

Alice

Alice,
 Perhaps you could study the scriptures and then post your thoughts on your studies. Perhaps ask questions about the scripture you study if there are any. Perhaps this would seem less troll like and benefit more people.

Your dwelling on evolution and homosexuality are the patterns that fit trolls. Others here have thought as Tom that your posts are very similar to the posts that disruptive trolls post.

I pray this is not true, but Alice by their fruits you shall know them and so far some of yours have been troll like.

Post us some of your studies and thoughts on God's word.
Why not start with Genesis and the creation. Then try Romans 1 and research the scriptures on what is sin. You will find the answers to your questions on homosexuality.

Praying to read some of your thoughts on your Bible studies.

In Christian love,
Ollie