Why did God let Jesus die?

[Heidi]

There are many, many questions that you have not answered, eyeball, including where your love of self comes from. Since you don't believe in God, it has to come from a human source which, unless you think humans are perfect and omnipotent, is conditional. In that case, your love for others can only be conditional based on what pleases you, which is not real love of your neighbor but selfish love, which of course isn't love at all.

[eyeball]

I never said I loved my neighbor. I never said love was unconditional. These are your words. To me, unconditioanal love is useless and valueless. It is based on nothing. I do not subscribe to you definitions of love.

You're still avoiding my question. I answered yours. We can end this easy enough, just say you don't know the answer. I am not so arrogant that I won't admit my ignorance.

[Ralph]

 Eyeball (reply 44)--I wasn't addressing you nor trying to convince you of anything. If God chooses to be merciful to you, He will. Until then, you are under the law--under God's curse Galatians 3:10.23. You can't understand now, because wisdom is not available until God is pleased to show mercy through Christ (1Cor Chapt. 1). That requires a work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit who does the will of Jesus Whom you don't seem interested in. Therefore I won't cast pearls before you.

[eyeball]

Ah, now you say I'm a swine. Thank you, Ralph.

You can't understand now, because wisdom is not available until God is pleased to show mercy through Christ (1Cor Chapt. 1). That requires a work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit who does the will of Jesus

But I can stop all three in their tracks, right? I can refuse the wisdom? I can refuse the regeneration?


Hmm...I've never heard there was a hierarchy in heaven. I just assumed the three were equal. I learn something new every day. I was a Baptist. Is this specific to a certain denomination? Could be the Baptists believed this also, I didn't stick around long after adulthood.

[Heidi]

Your question has been answered over and over again. God allowed Jesus to die so that we don't have to hate ourselves for whatever we do wrong. Everything you have ever thought, said or done that was hurtful has been taken with Him in His death. Before Christ and even after Him in most other religions, people have to sacrifice animals, do good deeds, eat the right, thing, etc. in order to appease their guilt. What do you do with your guilt? You have said that unconditional love is useless so you must not have it. In that case, you are coming from a LACK of love inside you and for others. But you have also said that you love yourself  but that of course is only sometimes because you have admitted it's conditional. The times when you don't love yourself, you either hate yourself or don't care about yourself. You will also treat others in the same way you treat yourself. That of course will not perpetuate life but anger and indifference to people. It certainly doesn't promote happiness because when people hate themselevs or don't care about themselves they are not happy.

You do not see the gross contradictions in your posts. You say that unconditional love is useless and maybe it is if you don't want to be happy. But you are at this website for a reason. Why do you care what Christians believe if you disagree with us? Why do you even ask questions if you are not searching for the unconditional love that you see as useless?It will do you no good to ask questions when you don't want the answers. If you really want answers, look UP to an omniscient source instead of sideways to imperfect humans and you will find them. Unless of course, you're afraid of what you will find. Otherwise, you will reject whatever answers you get here, even if you have to be irrational to do it.  

I no longer will respond to your posts because you are playing games instead of a real search for the truth. I told you where you will get the truth. If you don't ask God, then it shows you were never really interested in finding it to begin with.

[Whitehorse]

My friend, if you're so sure He doesn't exist, why would you waste your time? But you've opted to argue the nonexistence of God, not amongst those who agree with you, but here, amongst people who can see plain as day. We're not perfect-that's why we need a Savior. Like any family, those in the family of Christ don't always agree either. But it doesn't stop us from loving each other, and this is especially true the more we mature in Christ.

You're not the only one who has ever been angry at God. There are times when even His prophets didn't understand, and they were angry, too. As for your statement about having no use for unconditional love, everyone has use for it. And no, I'm not offering my time for my own listening pleasure, but because most people, when they want to talk about God, happy or not, come to places where there are other believers. Maybe even here, although at times even I have a hard time believing it based on some of the petty bickering. If I wanted listening pleasure, wouldn't I be video taping Home Improvement and watching the reruns?

Anyway, here's what my Bible says:Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. I Peter 1:22 Of course, brothers refers to all those of faith.

Then there is this:  If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging symbol. I Corinthians 13:1

As for your questions, we don't owe you any justifications for what we believe. Neither do we offer this completely precious treasure to someone who only wants to trample it into the mud. Neither are we responsible for your choice about whether to submit yourself to God or not. Neither is God responsible for your sin. For all the hate you seem to think God has, it seems to me that you're projecting on Him.

[Ralph]

Eyeball--concerning your reply #48: The "swine" comment was not mine. The Lord Himself called those who attack the truth "Swine." Don't try to lessen the force of His use of the word by trying to say I used it. Deal with it. The ear tickling
preaching you heard did not portray Christ as He is. Christ said "SWINE." In other places God refers to men as "beasts" and it is a very proper reference BECAUSE they are just like beasts, or swine--they only care for their gut. The only interest they have concerns their fleshly lusts. You have spent much time on this forum demonstrating that YOU fit that mold.
 CONCERNING YOUR MISCHARACTERIZATION OF WHAT I SAID: that is just one of the reasons there is no profit in scattering pearls before the likes of you. What I said about the three persons of the Godhead performing certain functions in accord with their covenant to redeem certain ones from Adam's fall IN NO WAY MEANT THERE WAS A HIERARCHY. But no one should expect you to regret bearing false witness against me by trying to put those words in my mouth. All your posts show that you are under the law rather than under grace. The love of God comes only through Christ.
Under the law, there is only unrelenting wrath. So don't flatter youself by thinking God is unprincipled sticky sweet
love toward everyone as your Sunday Dandie Arminian
milquetoast preachers would have you believe.

[Ralph]

  Eyeball--In reference to your reply #48. No,friend, you CAN'T stop all three in their tracks. He DOES have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Men cannot reject effectual grace. They cannot refuse wisdom or regeneration when He is purposed to bestow it. What He purposed in eternity He executes in time: "Whatsoever the LORD pleased that did He in heaven and in earth; in the seas and all deep places." By His grace He makes those upon whom He purposes to show mercy willing. "There are many devices [or plans] in a man's heart. Nevertheless, the purpose of the Lord - that shall stand." Since there is infinite perfection in all His purposes, it would be an imperfection in Him (since He has the power to perform them) if He did not "do according to His will in the army of heaven and amoung the inhabitants of the earth. None can stay His hand or say unto Him, what are you doing?"
  Eyeball, I think your real problem is that some sugar-tongued
preacher filled your mind with the idea of a God who could be walked on by everybody. The true God is infinitely perfect in all His ways. Think about that for awhile, and then start over from scratch. What we say here can be found in Scripture and the God of Scripture is wondrously more than what many say about Him. Come along with us. Think about the God that
Job knew. Job said of Him, "I know that you can do all things and that no thought of yours can be withheld from you."
EXCITING, huh?

[eyeball]

Thanks for the invitation.

[Whitehorse]

If you earnestly seek Him, you have His word He will be found by you. We're here to help you in this endeavor, if that's what you truly want.

[Petro]

Lots of pretty words, folks, but still no answer. Why did God not plan it some other way? He is the maker of all? He could not forsee the outcome, or either he wanted his son to die?

eyeball,

You are a selfish father because you really don't care about the welfare of your children, your unbelief deprives them of belief in God, perhaps they would believe in God, even if you don't, so why do you deprive them, by being anti God.

If you were honest, you would be passive to let them find out about God for themselves, but you exhibit, the same anti God feelings in front of them, that you do, herein; don't tell me I am wrong either, I know better, I use to anti God myself, but praise God, my children know mand love the Lord, and wqalk with him, today, and it is pleasing to see, them do so, Gods end of the promise, is "they will not depart from the way, we raised them."  So because of His faithfulness, our faith is strenbgthened, because we see it before our own eyes.

And don't give me that lame excuse, that you want them to make their own decisions in life, well old buddy, if you don't teach them, they will always find someone else, to lead them in what their spiritual beliefs will be, I never believed, but being a father myself, one day when someone shared with me this verse that says;

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.(Prov 22:6)

If you don't know the way, how can you raise your children to know the way.

They will be humanists, I guess this is OK with you.

You see how, the sins of the father are visited to his children to the third and fourth generations.

Unbelieving fathers will always produce unbelieving children.

As for you question;

Why did God not plan it some other way?

Don't tell me, you have a better plan??


Petro

[eyeball]

And don't give me that lame excuse, that you want them to make their own decisions in life, well old buddy, if you don't teach them, they will always find someone else, to lead them in what their spiritual beliefs will be, I never believed, but being a father myself, one day when someone shared with me this verse that says;

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.(Prov 22:6)

I would consider this brainwashing. I would also consider it brainwashing if they only saw my view of the world. My children never knew my opinions until the later years.

Unbelieving fathers will always produce unbelieving children.

Well, I hope so, but that is their decision.

[Allinall]

Unbelieving fathers will always produce unbelieving children.

Praise God that He can bring even those to belief.  

I would consider this brainwashing. I would also consider it brainwashing if they only saw my view of the world. My children never knew my opinions until the later years.

I teach my children as best I can.  I send my oldest daughter to a Christian school, where she learns God's word as well.  I take them to church where they learn even more.  Unique, isn't it, that amidst such "brainwashing" that they fail so often times to practice what they've learned?  If this is brainwashing - it doesn't work.  

[Whitehorse]

And don't give me that lame excuse, that you want them to make their own decisions in life, well old buddy, if you don't teach them, they will always find someone else, to lead them in what their spiritual beliefs will be, I never believed, but being a father myself, one day when someone shared with me this verse that says;

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.(Prov 22:6)

I would consider this brainwashing. I would also consider it brainwashing if they only saw my view of the world. My children never knew my opinions until the later years.

Unbelieving fathers will always produce unbelieving children.

Well, I hope so, but that is their decision.

Is it brainwashing to teach them not to run in the road? Is it brainwashing to teach them to be polite to others? If you answer is yes, then isn't it likewise brainwashing to hinder them from reconciliation with the Lord?

[Heidi]

Whitehorse, according to your logic, anything we teach our children is brainwashing. Words have to come out of our mouths when speaking to our children.