Ways that God the Father fully resides in Christ thus making Him God.

[Jemidon2004]

Hiya Marc,

I see your positions as far as what you've said so far, however, i must say that I will have to disagree with your last statement. Any student of hermenutics will know that one of the first rules in systematically studying Scripture is that words have depth and can convey a general truth in Scripture. These truths don't have to be blatantly spoken, however, as more than one Scripture continues to support a general Truth, we begin to pull from it and put the pieces together. I.E. the Trinity. The word "Trinity" isn't used, however, the idea, or truth that God has chosen to reveal, is still there. Again, any serious student of Scripture and hermenutics will see that there is depth to words and as to the idea being conveyed in a passage of Scripture. Just thought i'd add this. God Bless

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[Soldier4Christ]

marc_serv,

As you qouted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Exactly what do you think the word "trinity" means? It means the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

Now look at 1 John 5:7 again. It shows three persons in one God. This is just one of the many, many verses that attest to this fact. If one would study the Bible has a whole it would show this truth.

I also suggest that you read through the following threads for more on this subject.

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=2397

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=6495

 

You have been given the truth on this matter. It is now up to you as to whether you accept it or reject it.

 

[nChrist]

marc_serv Said:

Okay Pastor, actually I too myself don't know much about the the teaching of Servetus except in his views about the Godhead and Christ nature. I even reject some of his teachings except in his teaching about the Godhead and Christ nature.

I just quoted Servetus in his belief about the Godhead and his against in infant baptism because this was his very core teaching that cause his life. Let us focus to discuss regarding the true nature of Christ as what this my thread emphasized and not to divert the discussion to personal attacks to Servetus.

As you quoted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Hello Marc_Serv,

I just skimmed one article about Michael Servetus, but I didn't find anything Christian about anything he taught, most certainly including his denial of the Holy Trinity, original sin, and just about everything associated with Salvation. So, in all of the important parts, he was simply a false teacher and nothing more. So, I wouldn't understand why a Christian would choose him as an example for anything, as his teachings were NOT Christian. His teachings look much more like Islam, NOT Christian.

If you're having a problem with the term "Trinity", that simply means three. If you quote 1 John 5:7, "Holy Trinity" is just a shorter way of saying the same thing.

From Dictionary.com

   1.  A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
   2. Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.
   3. Trinity - Trinity Sunday.

"Triune" is the root word for Trinity, and it also means three. So, if you understand and accept 1 John 5:7, you also accept "Holy Trinity" because the two are saying exactly the same thing. If you have some sort of mental block about saying the term "Holy Trinity", just quote 1 John 5:7 and all Christians will know what you believe. However, if you reject 1 John 5:7 as being true, you would be rejecting Christianity, even more so with each belief that Servetus connected to this issue. In blunt terms, you would be completely lost. The only value I could see for the material of Servetus would be for keeping a fire going.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

[Jemidon2004]

I shall direct you to a few essays that have been written on this subject. The first is by Johnathon Edwards, the second is by Robert Bowman. these should provide for enough reading without being too exhaustive.

http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/trinity/trinity.html

The Trinity from Apologetics.com

Hopefully this will further help in explaining in ways i may not be able to. enjoy

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[Jemidon2004]

Copy and paste the second one into your browser, the first one seems to go at first click

Joshua

[nChrist]

Copy and paste the second one into your browser, the first one seems to go at first click

Joshua

Brother Joshua,

I posted that second link in a different way to make it work. I hope you don't mind. The address was just too long, and I don't know what the forum software will handle. See the example below on how to do this. I had to change the "[]" to "{}" so the example would show clearly:

[url=www.verylongurladdress.......}Title Or Label{/url}

As far as I know, the above method will work for url addresses of just about any length. By the way, the articles were excellent. Thanks!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 55:10-11 NASB  "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

[Jemidon2004]

Naw that's not a problem at all. I havn't taken the time to learn how to post ver long urls in this forum. Or any HTML for that matter due to my studies. Speaking of which, i have a French final s o i'd best get outta here. Have a good one.

Joshua

[marc_serv]

Hiya Marc,

I see your positions as far as what you've said so far, however, i must say that I will have to disagree with your last statement. Any student of hermenutics will know that one of the first rules in systematically studying Scripture is that words have depth and can convey a general truth in Scripture. These truths don't have to be blatantly spoken, however, as more than one Scripture continues to support a general Truth, we begin to pull from it and put the pieces together. I.E. the Trinity. The word "Trinity" isn't used, however, the idea, or truth that God has chosen to reveal, is still there. Again, any serious student of Scripture and hermenutics will see that there is depth to words and as to the idea being conveyed in a passage of Scripture. Just thought i'd add this. God Bless

Coram Deo,
Joshua

No need to be a hermenutics in order to be save.
No wonder that Jesus said that the truth is not revealed to the wise.

[marc_serv]

marc_serv Said:

Okay Pastor, actually I too myself don't know much about the the teaching of Servetus except in his views about the Godhead and Christ nature. I even reject some of his teachings except in his teaching about the Godhead and Christ nature.

I just quoted Servetus in his belief about the Godhead and his against in infant baptism because this was his very core teaching that cause his life. Let us focus to discuss regarding the true nature of Christ as what this my thread emphasized and not to divert the discussion to personal attacks to Servetus.

As you quoted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Hello Marc_Serv,

I just skimmed one article about Michael Servetus, but I didn't find anything Christian about anything he taught, most certainly including his denial of the Holy Trinity, original sin, and just about everything associated with Salvation. So, in all of the important parts, he was simply a false teacher and nothing more. So, I wouldn't understand why a Christian would choose him as an example for anything, as his teachings were NOT Christian. His teachings look much more like Islam, NOT Christian.

If you're having a problem with the term "Trinity", that simply means three. If you quote 1 John 5:7, "Holy Trinity" is just a shorter way of saying the same thing.

From Dictionary.com

   1.  A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
   2. Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.
   3. Trinity - Trinity Sunday.

"Triune" is the root word for Trinity, and it also means three. So, if you understand and accept 1 John 5:7, you also accept "Holy Trinity" because the two are saying exactly the same thing. If you have some sort of mental block about saying the term "Holy Trinity", just quote 1 John 5:7 and all Christians will know what you believe. However, if you reject 1 John 5:7 as being true, you would be rejecting Christianity, even more so with each belief that Servetus connected to this issue. In blunt terms, you would be completely lost. The only value I could see for the material of Servetus would be for keeping a fire going.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

In the Bible only can be found is Holy One not Holy Trinity, and if did happen that the Holy One cannot be found in the Bible maybe I may come to believe in you.
I will not gamble the Holy One to the Holy Trinity that not even God having pronounce it!

Contrary to your statement in John 5:7 it clearly says that the three bear record in heaven are holy one, not holy trinity.
Really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

[cris]

marc_serv Said:

Okay Pastor, actually I too myself don't know much about the the teaching of Servetus except in his views about the Godhead and Christ nature. I even reject some of his teachings except in his teaching about the Godhead and Christ nature.

I just quoted Servetus in his belief about the Godhead and his against in infant baptism because this was his very core teaching that cause his life. Let us focus to discuss regarding the true nature of Christ as what this my thread emphasized and not to divert the discussion to personal attacks to Servetus.

As you quoted the verse 1John 5:7, really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Hello Marc_Serv,

I just skimmed one article about Michael Servetus, but I didn't find anything Christian about anything he taught, most certainly including his denial of the Holy Trinity, original sin, and just about everything associated with Salvation. So, in all of the important parts, he was simply a false teacher and nothing more. So, I wouldn't understand why a Christian would choose him as an example for anything, as his teachings were NOT Christian. His teachings look much more like Islam, NOT Christian.

If you're having a problem with the term "Trinity", that simply means three. If you quote 1 John 5:7, "Holy Trinity" is just a shorter way of saying the same thing.

From Dictionary.com

   1.  A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
   2. Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.
   3. Trinity - Trinity Sunday.

"Triune" is the root word for Trinity, and it also means three. So, if you understand and accept 1 John 5:7, you also accept "Holy Trinity" because the two are saying exactly the same thing. If you have some sort of mental block about saying the term "Holy Trinity", just quote 1 John 5:7 and all Christians will know what you believe. However, if you reject 1 John 5:7 as being true, you would be rejecting Christianity, even more so with each belief that Servetus connected to this issue. In blunt terms, you would be completely lost. The only value I could see for the material of Servetus would be for keeping a fire going.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

In the Bible only can be found is Holy One not Holy Trinity, and if did happen that the Holy One cannot be found in the Bible maybe I may come to believe in you.
I will not gamble the Holy One to the Holy Trinity that not even God having pronounce it!

Contrary to your statement in John 5:7 it clearly says that the three bear record in heaven are holy one, not holy trinity.
Really the scriptures says that three bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one but not trinity!

Marc,

I don't know if you're dense or we are.  Also, it doesn't appear that English is your first language as your posts are very difficult to read.  I don't mean to discourage you from posting, but please understand the difficulty I'm having reading your posts.

There IS one God.  You are correct in that statement.  What you don't seem to understand are the personages of that one God.  There is IN one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  That's what we call a Trinity.  God manifests Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  The manifestations of God is called Trinity.  There aren't three Gods but ONE God.

[Soldier4Christ]

marc_serv,

You either are not reading what we have said or you are not understanding. Trinity = three. It is the same thing. These three are one.

Trinity = Triune

Triune means =  

1 : being a single unit or thing

2 a : being one in particular  b : being preeminently what is indicated
 
3 a : being the same in kind or quality  
   b (1) : constituting a unified entity of two or more components  
      (2) : being in agreement or union


Three = Father, Son, Holy Spirit = One = God

It is difficult for mans mind to understand how
1 + 1 + 1(which is 3) = 1 but it does. It doesn't sound logical does it? But then understanding God cannot be narrowed down to human logic. This lack of understanding of the mysteries of God is what it means by not using mans wisdom.

I cannot make it any simpler than this. If you cannot understand this then I suggest you turn to God and ask Him for guidance instead of turning to a man like Michael Servetus that will turn you away from the saving grace of God.

[Jemidon2004]

When I say hermenutics, I'm simply saying any serious student of the Word. Never said you had to have a grasp of hermenutics in order to be saved. If you can find a place where those words came out of my mouth, I will retract my statement. So did Solomon not have truth? He was counted wise. My wisdom (God forbid I even deserve it) comes from God. I count on Him for whatever wisdom He wishes to lavish upon me. However, in the pursuit of knowledge and scholarship, being a student of the Word has strengthened my resolve to seek God's truths in His Holy Word. Again, just because it does not say it blatantly in Scripture, does not mean that such a revelation is not there. Just a few thoughts.

Joshua

[cris]

When I say hermenutics, I'm simply saying any serious student of the Word. Never said you had to have a grasp of hermenutics in order to be saved. If you can find a place where those words came out of my mouth, I will retract my statement. So did Solomon not have truth? He was counted wise. My wisdom (God forbid I even deserve it) comes from God. I count on Him for whatever wisdom He wishes to lavish upon me. However, in the pursuit of knowledge and scholarship, being a student of the Word has strengthened my resolve to seek God's truths in His Holy Word. Again, just because it does not say it blatantly in Scripture, does not mean that such a revelation is not there. Just a few thoughts.

Joshua

Jemidon said:  Just because it does not say it blatantly in Scripture, does not mean that such a revelation is not there.

Hmmmm............That's what catholics have been saying all along, but not necessarily in reference to the Trinity. That's the point some catholics who were on this forum were trying to get across. I'm thinking about issues that were brought up way back..........when there was a catholic-protestant war going on here at CU. I don't think you were a member at that time.  Just a few thoughts, too.  BTW, I'm not catholic.

[Soldier4Christ]

The important thing to remember here is that the Trinity is in fact in the Bible. The word itself is not there but the meaning behind the word is very clearly depicted there.  

[cris]

The important thing to remember here is that the Trinity is in fact in the Bible. The word itself is not there but the meaning behind the word is very clearly depicted there.  

I understand what you're saying PR.  The point I was trying to make is that catholic debaters were trying to get this very same point across (not the Trinity, though).  Whatever they were discussing, they were pointing to a bible passage to substantiate their point.  We're trying to do the same thing explaining the Trinity to Marc.  He hasn't seen it, yet.  People on the board didn't see the catholic point, either.  That's all I was trying to say.