Commandments Struck Down

[cris]

Here you go PR - It took me a while to find it - I actually read in today's paper...

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/email/news/12003433.htm

I'm not signing up to read this.  I get enough unwanted emails as it is.  I'd like to read this, too.  If there's another way, other than registering, let me know.

Hold on Cris. I'll sign up using one of my throw away email addees and post it here.

OK PR.....................thank you.

[Soldier4Christ]

Here it is Cris.


Posted on Tue, Jun. 28, 2005

Experts unsure on lawyer's suit

By Ivan Delventhal

CONTRA COSTA TIMES

Legal experts said Monday it would be difficult to predict how two U.S. Supreme Court rulings on religious displays on government property might affect a Pleasanton lawyer's suit challenging the seal of the federal appeals court in San Francisco.

Attorney Ryan Donlon filed suit against the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in federal court in February. The complaint alleges that the court's official seal includes a depiction of the Ten Commandments and therefore violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

The proceedings in the Donlon case were ordered stayed in April pending the high court's resolution of the two cases decided Monday.

The Supreme Court decided in those cases that displaying the Ten Commandments on government property is constitutionally permissible in some cases but not in others. The two 5-4 decisions -- one allowing a monument to stay on the grounds of the Texas Capitol, and a second striking down such displays in Kentucky courthouses --indicated future disputes on the issue will have to be evaluated case by case.

With the Supreme Court's rulings in, the government's response to Donlon's suit is now due in 30 days. Donlon did not respond to several telephone messages seeking comment Monday.

In his suit, he says the seal is used on court stationery, certificates, other documents and on the court Web site. It shows a robed, seated woman with a double tablet beside her chair. The tablet has 10 lines in an illegible script.

The suit claims "this object represents the Judeo-Christian Decalogue commonly referred to as the Ten Commandments."

Eugene Volokh, a professor at the UCLA School of Law, said the court's opinions did not break much new ground on the issue.

"The law is as unpredictable now as it was before, perhaps more so," he said.

He said it would be hard to tell how the court's decisions might figure in Donlon's case. Volokh said there was a "decent argument" in favor of Donlon, because the object allegedly representing Commandments occupies a central position in a sparsely populated court seal.

Peter Eliasberg, managing attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, agreed that the court's opinions do not give much guidance for future cases.

He was hesitant, though, to predict how the decisions might affect Donlon's suit, but said the ruling had certainly shown that Commandments displays can be considered to play a secular, and thus constitutionally permitted role, in certain contexts.

Josh Davis, a professor at the University of San Francisco School of Law, said the justices, rather than committing themselves to abstract principles, had instead indicated the lawfulness Commandment displays on government property would depend to a large extent on context.

He noted however, though: "One product of these decisions is that we're not going to have really easy rules that can be applied mechanically."

[cris]

I guess I'm ignorant.  Who's the robed, seated woman?

All I can say is that there are DEVILS among us who appear to be human.  They're not.

[shoneen]

I guess I'm ignorant.  Who's the robed, seated woman?

Not positive, but it is probably Justitia, a Roman goddess of justice.

[cris]

Thanks JN.


Cris,

I agree that we should do something about it. To stop paying taxes would be a futile attempt. It would get us imprisoned and still not accomplish anything positive. Some day it may lead to Christians being imprisoned but let us do so for the right reasons. When it comes to taxes Jesus taught us to "render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar".

Again, someday it may come to revolting against the Govn't but I don't believe that this is that time. There are still methods of redress that are available to us that can be used without breaking any laws. The problem here is that most people are content to live in their own little world. They don't see how these will affect them in the long run or they just don't want to disrupt their current happy lives to do something about it.

Personally I am using all methods available to me that I am physically able to handle. Writing to my State Reps and Senators. Contacting as many people as I can reach by phone or internet. Talking about it to people at the VA center when I go there. Discussing it with Church members.

Whether they are Christians or not, explaining to them what these actions means to them. Trying to get them all to understand the problems that we all face and encouraging them to do something about it.

I agree that Jesus said render to Caesar what is Caesar's.  Just how much is Caesar's?  Just exactly what belongs to Caesar?  Our rights are being taken from us.  They do not belong to Caesar!  Caesar can come in (eminent domain) and take whatever he wants from you.  Surely, Jesus does not want us to just let it all happen.

If everyone stopped paying taxes, we would not all be imprisoned. There simply isn't room to do this. That was the point I was trying to make in saying ALL of us. The government wouldn't be able to imprison one and not the other.  Uprising!

Was Jesus a rebel?  Did He not get angry and turn over tables?  Do you not think Jesus in us should do the same today?

I commend you for your efforts in doing what you can PR, but it isn't working.  That's the problem.  It's going to take ALL of us.  And, it going to have to be drastic.

I think I'm going to go stick my head in the sand till I wake up in heaven.   Just kidding.  You know what's scary?  Meeting Almighty God and Him asking me why I didn't cause an uprising and showing me what the world would look like if I had.  That's scary, for me.

You are absolutely right when you say most people are content to live in their own little world.  I guess it's always been that way, too, with the exception of a few very brave souls.  God Bless each and everyone of them, expecially the nameless ones.  I'm just thinking about our guys and gals in Iraq.  As I reminisce, I could never have dreamed about the year 2005 and what it held.  I guess, in my youth, I always thought things would get better.  I never thought these things would happen in my day.  I never thought about these things happening, period.



 

[cris]

I guess I'm ignorant.  Who's the robed, seated woman?

Not positive, but it is probably Justitia, a Roman goddess of justice.

Anyone know, without doing research, the story of why she is there with the 10 Commandments?

[Soldier4Christ]

We saw somewhat of an uprising of Christians during this last election. Before that it was following 9/11. Unfortunately people won't continue. They let the "heat of the battle" wear off and want to go back to a complacent life all to quickly. It is like the situation in Iraq right now  ....   "let's call it over and leave" type sentiment long before it is over.

There is no easy answer and there is no easy road. I was called a rebel while I was growing up. I got called a rebel while in the Navy (I still made it to E-7 in record breaking time). I got called a rebel because I rebeled against what was considered to be the normal way of doing things yet I got the job done and quicker so than most. Unfortunately this is a job that I cannot do alone. It takes all of us working on this problem and sticking to it till the job is done. When is the job done? When the Lord calls us home. This is what most people do not want to do. They want to sit back on their laurels and let someone else do it for them.

This is why it isn't working. There are far to few that are willing to do what it takes. Perseverance.

[Soldier4Christ]

I guess I'm ignorant.  Who's the robed, seated woman?

Not positive, but it is probably Justitia, a Roman goddess of justice.

Anyone know, without doing research, the story of why she is there with the 10 Commandments?

The Roman Goddess Justitia is what we call in America Lady Justice. Normally she is standing with the ancient style scales held in an outstretched hand. It is hard to see in that picture but the scales are draped across her lap.

[cris]

We saw somewhat of an uprising of Christians during this last election. Before that it was following 9/11. Unfortunately people won't continue. They let the "heat of the battle" wear off and want to go back to a complacent life all to quickly. It is like the situation in Iraq right now  ....   "let's call it over and leave" type sentiment long before it is over.

There is no easy answer and there is no easy road. I was called a rebel while I was growing up. I got called a rebel while in the Navy (I still made it to E-7 in record breaking time). I got called a rebel because I rebeled against what was considered to be the normal way of doing things yet I got the job done and quicker so than most. Unfortunately this is a job that I cannot do alone. It takes all of us working on this problem and sticking to it till the job is done. When is the job done? When the Lord calls us home. This is what most people do not want to do. They want to sit back on their laurels and let someone else do it for them.

This is why it isn't working. There are far to few that are willing to do what it takes. Perseverance.

I'm with you on this 100%.  God knew it and foresaw it all happening.  I cannot imagine how He feels.  I just know it brings tears to my eyes and makes me angry.  Like I said before, good thing I'm not God.

[cris]

I tried to research a bit on this but really couldn't find what I was looking for.  I did come up with a very long history of the Mason's in founding our country though.  Am wondering if anyone else read this.  It's  http://watch.pair.com/mason.html
There are many, many, many pages here.  I just briefy looked it over.


Gotta go eat dinner.  Back in a little while.

[SelahJoy]

We saw somewhat of an uprising of Christians during this last election. Before that it was following 9/11. Unfortunately people won't continue. They let the "heat of the battle" wear off and want to go back to a complacent life all to quickly. It is like the situation in Iraq right now  ....   "let's call it over and leave" type sentiment long before it is over.

There is no easy answer and there is no easy road. I was called a rebel while I was growing up. I got called a rebel while in the Navy (I still made it to E-7 in record breaking time). I got called a rebel because I rebeled against what was considered to be the normal way of doing things yet I got the job done and quicker so than most. Unfortunately this is a job that I cannot do alone. It takes all of us working on this problem and sticking to it till the job is done. When is the job done? When the Lord calls us home. This is what most people do not want to do. They want to sit back on their laurels and let someone else do it for them.

This is why it isn't working. There are far to few that are willing to do what it takes. Perseverance.

As for me, I'm persevering.   I'm looking for ways that I can make a difference.

Maybe my efforts are misguided though. Do you have suggestions for speaking God's truth, loving the way Jesus does, and supporting our troops?  I'm listening...

[JudgeNot]

cris said:

Just how much is Caesar's?  Just exactly what belongs to Caesar?

YEAH!  What you said!

Sorry about the website with a registration - I forgot I ever registered, I never have to 'log in' or anything.  I've  had to register at several 'online newspapers' but I've never been spammed or emailed as a result.  I don't think.  Maybe.  Hmmm.

RP said:

Perseverance.

That's something my daddy pounded into me.  Perseverence is hard.  I guess that's why it's a virtue.  

The Roman Goddess Justitia is what we call in America Lady Justice.

WHAT!!?  A Goddess on a Government seal and the constitution shredders are worried about a nondescript shape with ten wiggly lines?

Now – does this mean this guy, along with the ACLU, believes in Goddess Justitia?  Obviously they do, because they leave Pagan religion completely unchecked.  

Or is it… could it possibly be true… do these people actually single out and openly discriminate against Judeo-Christians?  Surely not!  There is always a ‘shattering outcry’ from the liberals when ever any group is disenfranchised, right?  

PR Said:

There is no easy answer and there is no easy road. I was called a rebel while I was growing up. I got called a rebel while in the Navy (I still made it to E-7 in record breaking time). I got called a rebel because I rebeled against what was considered to be the normal way of doing things yet I got the job done and quicker so than most. Unfortunately this is a job that I cannot do alone. It takes all of us working on this problem and sticking to it till the job is done. When is the job done? When the Lord calls us home. This is what most people do not want to do. They want to sit back on their laurels and let someone else do it for them.

Dude!  Is this kinda like "Christian Jehad"?    
Sign me up!  
There are some great, very established groups out there who have already made progress in the war started by Satan.  A few that come to mind are The Christian Defense Coalition, the Alliance Defense Fund is a rabid enemy of the ACLU, The Christian Legal Society; probably a lot of others.  It could be worth the trime to look into the different groups, find one that is doing what we want done, and jumping in with support.

I think I may be like you, PR; if I'm going to support something like this I want to be interactively envolved - not just a money source.

I think I'll start praying about this - see if Jesus sends me any particular direction...

[Soldier4Christ]

There are many sites that keep saying that there were many freemasons amongst our founding fathers. Supposedly Washington DC, buildings, roads and all were planned into a specific design by the freemasons. There are many web sites that claim that Ben Franklin and George Washington were Free Masons. This is not the case at all. These false statements are generated by one by freemasons and by conspiracists that want to believe that the government is run by the evil freemasons.

Dude!  Is this kinda like "Christian Jehad"?

Hmmmmm could be.  


You know I forgot about those agencies JN. That is a good idea. I am sure there must be a way to support these agencies besides giving them money. I'll have to look into that.

[John 3:16]

 I agree JudgeNot , I have no respect for our current Supreme Court either
and after they did this now how can they ask God To Bless The U.S  God Can Not And Will Not Bless SIN

[cris]

There are many sites that keep saying that there were many freemasons amongst our founding fathers. Supposedly Washington DC, buildings, roads and all were planned into a specific design by the freemasons. There are many web sites that claim that Ben Franklin and George Washington were Free Masons. This is not the case at all. These false statements are generated by one by freemasons and by conspiracists that want to believe that the government is run by the evil freemasons.

Dude!  Is this kinda like "Christian Jehad"?

Hmmmmm could be.  


You know I forgot about those agencies JN. That is a good idea. I am sure there must be a way to support these agencies besides giving them money. I'll have to look into that.

The site I posted isn't a masonic site.  It's run by a Christian group called, Cutting Edge Ministries.  I haven't read it all because there's a lot to read.

Has anyone gone there yet?