IS WATER BAPTISM A TESTIMONY?

[Brother Love]

Why Water Baptism?
by B.C. Pratt

In Exodus 29:4 water baptism was a cleansing ceremony for the Hebrew priests of the tribe of Levi for their induction into the office of the Hebrew priesthood.

And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
In Matthew 3:11 John the Baptist speaking to the Jews (Matthew 3:7) said,

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Note: Today, how are our sins remitted (forgiven)?

(Colossians 2:14 KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(Ephesians 1:7 KJV) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
This nation of Israel (Exodus 19:3) was to fulfil Exodus 19:5,6:

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Israel as a blessed nation was to become a nation of priests to go out to preach the Kingdom gospel to the rest of the world (the gentiles). Each individual had to submit to the cleansing ceremony for induction into the priesthood. This is why Peter answered the Jews who asked what they must do to be saved (to avoid God's judgment and to go safely into the Kingdom) in Acts 2:38:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Water baptism was not optional for the priests in the Old Testament (under the Old Covenant) nor for the Jewish believers in the Kingdom program.

In the present Dispensation of Grace many things are now different. No observations or ceremonies are commanded since we are not under the Law but under Grace.

(Romans 6:14 KJV) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
In the transition period from Law to Grace Paul baptized a few but his memory was dim on the subject.

(1 Corinthians 1:16-17 KJV) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. {17} For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
This being the only mention in all his epistles of water baptism. His emphasis was on the spiritual baptism which all believers have at the moment of belief that Christ died to pay for their sins and that He is their Saviour.

Why don't we need water baptism for our cleansing for service? It's simply because we already have a superior baptism which is spiritual and invisible, performed by the operation of God Himself.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
I Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Romans 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? {4} Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Every believer receives all spiritual blessings in Christ. These include adoption as sons, righteousness, redemption, sanctification, forgiveness (remission of sins), salvation, justification, baptism, and much, much more, all by the operation of God. What more could we do to be accepted of God than what Christ has perfectly done for us?

Compare what Paul wrote to the Galatians about the practice of circumcision, a ceremony which was to be practiced by Israel, a token of the Abrahamic Covenant to Israel.

Galatians. 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
In Galatia, circumcision was the debated subject. What do you suppose Paul would have told them if the hot topic of the day had been water baptism?

Considering the Biblical purpose of water baptism, why would the ceremony be practiced today? To enter the priesthood of Israel? To have sins remitted? Tradition?

What if we do practice it for whatever reason we have? Under the program of Grace for today, Paul states in that there is "ONE baptism." Which ONE should we prefer?

(Ephesians 4:5 KJV) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Colossians 2:10 states, "Ye are complete in Him (Christ)." How much more complete can one be? The Galatians had believed and accepted the Gospel of Grace but soon became influenced by Judaizers who taught them to add circumcision to the gospel they had been taught. Paul denounced them soundly.

Does not water baptism minimize Christ's FINISHED, COMPLETE SACRIFICE? To add to what Christ has done, and what God has provided for us, is it not to deny Christ has paid it all?

What is your decision? Did Christ accomplish all your need or not?


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[Brother Love]

ONE MORE TIME:

What is your decision? Did Christ accomplish all your need or not?


<))><

[musicllover]

ONE MORE TIME:

What is your decision? Did Christ accomplish all your need or not?

<))><

YES, he did, but it was also Jesus that told us to go out make disciples and baptizing in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
     I aint going to argue with him.
Water .........I guess I am unsure of what you are asking, my answer.....of coarse water would you rather we used katchup?
Jesus used water, was baptized and he knew he was going to die for all man kind and was still baptized so if it wasn't necessary why did he give us this example?
 
For the examples given about a bad baptism, isn't that the example Paul uses saying that there hearts weren't right to begin with. Isn't it important that we understand what baptism is, like the anology circumsion of the heart, we dont literarly have our heart cut, and it would be very very hard for a female to under go the other kind.....so its an example, again circumsision is an act of obidienace. But it still requires man to act upon it and make choices following for there lives.  Don't it happen even today, baptized and you still do as you please, stepping in the water is an act of obiedience, of humbleness, it doesn't wash away the temtations of the devil, it doesn't wash away our own decision making process, its an ACT that Jesus gave us the example for. Let me ask this how many times do we read of baptism BEFORE the New Testement? John baptized people in preperation for the coming messiah, he came, and even Jesus showed his obidence to the scritprues, to show his rightousness......... which simply means he wanted to stand right before God, ok and he was God, so why would we do any less?
WHY not water baptism, like was already mention foot washing? Jesus gave us that example, but he didn't command it either. Since I believe its a good thing to do, but not a HAVE to thing to do, I agree to disagree. Cause if I wanted to climb a tree everyday and do in the name of Jesus then isn't that my business, I'm not hurting anyone, not offending anyone, its my personal choice. Except Jesus hasn't told me to do it (well not yet  )

blessing brother love, your ok ya know, agreeing to disagree.
musicllover

[BronxBriar]

ONE MORE TIME:

What is your decision? Did Christ accomplish all your need or not?


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I was born again on May 19th of this year. I was baptized as an infant. I was considering being re-baptized. I have concluded that it is not necessary. Now I know why. Amazing Grace indeed.

[Brother Love]

ONE MORE TIME:

What is your decision? Did Christ accomplish all your need or not?


<))><

I was born again on May 19th of this year. I was baptized as an infant. I was considering being re-baptized. I have concluded that it is not necessary. Now I know why. Amazing Grace indeed.

Welcome to the family BronxBriar
AAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!

"Grace & Peace"

Your friend and brother

Brother Love

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[++Blood Bought++]

Baptism is essential. Those who teach you don't have to be baptized are plainly and simply going against the very command of Christ, "Baptize them in the name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit..." And if anyone ever teaches someone differently, he is a liar and he does not know the truth. Follow Christ and His example, not the ideas of man or the traditions of a church.

[Brother Love]

Baptism is essential. Those who teach you don't have to be baptized are plainly and simply going against the very command of Christ, "Baptize them in the name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit..." And if anyone ever teaches someone differently, he is a liar and he does not know the truth. Follow Christ and His example, not the ideas of man or the traditions of a church.

You should change your name.

You get "TWO" Thumbs Down

Brother Love


<))><

[Brother Love]

Saved by “Dry” Baptism!

 (Part 1)

DID NOAH GET WET?

Let us look for a moment at the beautiful and very simple picture of salvation that is given us in 1 Pet. 3:18-21. In the 18th verse we are told of Christ's having endured the judgment of God in our place. In the 20th verse we are told how the ark endured the water judgment of God in Noah's stead. And how clear it is that the way those "eight souls in the ark were saved by water" is the "like figure" (or the picture) of the way "baptism doth now save us ... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Noah and his family did not receive a drop of the judgment water from heaven. The ark took their judgment. Likewise we saved sinners did not get a bit of the judgment "baptism" that Christ, our Ark, "suffered for our sins, the Just for the unjust." And remember that Christ called His death a "baptism"—Luke 12:50.

Noah's good conscience answered God's invitation to "Come thou into the ark," by physically stepping inside that physical ark to be saved from the physical water judgment. And my good consicence answered Christ's tender invitation, "Come unto me . . . and I will give you rest," by taking the step of faith into Christ, my spiritual Ark and His baptismal death satisfied the Judge of High Heaven, so far as my offenses were concerned. But Christ's death, alone, could not save any of us. He must be raised from the dead in order to give us new life. And this entire need He perfectly met for "He was delivered for our offenses and raised for our justification."—Rom. 4:25.

Nor is this glorious message of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ a "New Testament" fact only, for all who have ever been saved from their sins were saved "by faith without works."—Rom. 4:6. This is exactly what Peter meant when he said to Cornelius: "To Christ give all the prophets (the Old Testament prophets) witness that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins."—Acts 10:43. Note, also, that as soon as Peter said "these words" God saved all of those Gentiles "who heard the word." And they were saved before Peter had said a word about their being baptized with water, too. (See also Gal. 3; 6-8.)

BURIED "WITH" OR "LIKE"?

Sinners are saved today exactly like Abraham was saved—Gal. 3:6-9; Rom. 4:1-13. "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."—Rom. 10:9-10. The moment a convicted sinner calls upon the name of the Lord he becomes saved "for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Of course, God is the One to determine whether or not the sinner is truly penitent and sincere in his call. When a sinner thus "believes on the Lord Jesus Christ" he is "crucified with Christ, . . . buried with Christ, . . . raised with Christ" and his new life is "hid with Christ in God."—Gal. 2:20; Col. 2:10-12; 3:1-4; Rom. 6:1-5.

Note very carefully that the Word of God says the Christian has been crucified WITH Christ, not LIKE Him. Exactly in the same miracle way in which the believing sinner has been "crucified with Christ" he has also been "buried with Christ." Nowhere are we told to be buried LIKE Christ was in the waters of Jordon but all Christians have been buried WITH Christ in His baptismal death. It is, of course, a miracle. And, by the way, why do not some of our religious imitators, who are so eagerly seeking to imitate Christ in His water baptism, try to imitate Him in His crucifixion?

All are only too ready to admit that "with" means just exactly "with" and not "like" when Paul says: "I am crucified with Christ," but when he says: "buried with Christ," then many are eager to get their sectarian followers to seek to imitate Christ's water baptism. This they do in spite of the plain fact that the apostle is speaking of Christ's burial in death and not His burial in the waters of Jordon.

My friends, be well assured of this: Christianity is not our miserable imitations of the earthly life of Jesus of Nazareth as He lived His perfect life of law-keeping under Judaism. Christianity is the life that we live after we have been created anew in Christ Jesus: the life of the indwelling Christ who moves into all "broken and contrite hearts" the moment His glorious gospel of grace is humbly heard and honestly believed. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." —Rom. 5:19. In other words, Adam's disobedience made all of his children, like their father, sinners. Now Christ's perfect, law-keeping obedience with His fulfillment of all the physical ordinances is passed on to all who receive Him. With His perfect heart and sinless flesh He obeyed all fleshly tests of character and then "became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Now, that is good news! It is THE good news! It is simply the "gospel of Jesus Christ." I have "obeyed the gospel." That is I have heard, with submission, of Christ's perfect, substitionary life, death, burial and resurrection. He not only died for me. He also lived for me. Therefore his law-keeping and ordinance-keeping obedience is put to my credit as well as His death-obedience. Thank God, as a new creature in Christ I am "complete in Him."—Col. 2:10-12.

HOW CAN WE "OBEY THE GOSPEL"?

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the "good news" or glad tidings concerning what Christ did for the sinner and is not a system of fleshly commandments as to what the sinner must do for Christ. Paul said:"I delivered unto you the gospel . . . how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day ... I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; unto the Jew first, and also unto the Greek (Gentile)."—1 Cor. 15-1-5; Rom. 1-16. Therefore, to 'obey the gospel' merely means to trust the perfect, finished work of Christ as you humbly and gratefully believe God's record that "Christ hath once suffered for our sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened (made alive) by the Spirit."— 1 Pet. 3:18.

Paul wrote to the Ephesian saints reminding them of the fact that they were saved when they trusted in Christ. "In whom ye trusted after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation . . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."—Eph. 1:12-13; 2:8-10.

CHRIST'S BAPTISM ON THE CROSS

The Lord Jesus Christ referred to his death as a "baptism." Christ was baptized with water, anointed with the Holy Spirit (Lk. 3:16-22) and then, two or more years later, said: "I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished."—Lk. 12:50. How does it happen that today when a preacher announces he is going to speak on "The Baptism of Christ" it is supposed by nearly all religionists that water baptism is meant?"

Surely every honest reader is convinced that the "baptism that saves us ..." does not have a drop of water in it. It is the miraculous baptism that Christ endured for us and that is put to our credit when Christ baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, thereby uniting us to Himself and everything in the way of law-keeping and ordinance-keeping righteousness, that He fulfilled for us.

If you have not already, will you just here and now throw up your hands of rebellion and gratefully receive, by faith, the glorious work that the Lord of Glory came to do for us sinners? Just think of the glorious privilege of being instantly accepted in the Beloved, of being miraculously clothed with the righteousness of Christ which is "unto all and upon all them that believe." "He that believeth not shall be damned."—Mark 16:16 "Why will ye die?"

[Brother Love]

Saved by “Dry” Baptism!

(Part 2)


BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST

And how did I get into this glorious place of salvation and completeness "in Christ?" "With (or by) one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."— 1 Cor. 12:12-13. This is the same two-fold operation of the Holy Spirit as that referred to in Acts 2:38. The moment a sinner hears the gospel of Jesus Christ, believing it in the deeps of his repentant heart, that moment he is "baptized in (or into) the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins" and he personaly receives "the gift of the Holy Spirit." Christ is the One who baptizes him with the Spirit and the Father gives him the indwelling Spirit.—John 14:16-17; Acts 10:38-46; John 1:33.

What must we think of those who say that there is no such thing any more as the "baptism with the Holy Spirit"? Will not the honest reading of these passages surely answer them? John 1:28-33; 3:27-30; Acts 1:5; 11:15-18; 1 Cor. 12:12-13 and Eph. 4:4-6; Phil. 3:3; 2 Cor. 5:16-17.

ONLY ONE CROSS FOR ALL DISPENSATIONS

Now it is quite true that God has different ages and dispensations and different programs with people but none of the dispensational or racial differences in any way affect the "gospel of Christ" that was foreordained for the salvation of any member of Adam's family that would "call upon the name of the Lord."—Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21;
Rom. 10:13; Acts 10:43; 15:10-11; 13:38-39. (Please honestly read these.) Though all penitent believers in Christ have His death baptism and His burial and resurrection put to their credit, I believe the Scriptures teach that only since Pentecost (Acts 2) have believers been baptized by the Lord "with one Spirit into one body."
—1 Cor. 12:13. The difference between salvation from the penalty of sin and the rewards held out for faithful Christians, is another difference that none of the "water-salvation" cults observe. I will give but one text here—1 Cor. 3:11-15.
As plainly as God can say it we are told that sinners are saved today exactly like Abraham was. "The scripture, foreseeing that God would justify (save) the Gentiles through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."
—Gal. 3:6-9; Rom. 4:1-12.

WHEN WAS CHRIST SLAIN?

The Campbellites and other cults that deny "the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ" ignorantly seek to make the Bible teach two plans for the salvation of the sinner. Their preachers demand the right to act as "priests" who must baptize the sinner in water and then and there place him in "The Church of Christ" or — sect. Since these modem "daughters of Rome" are willing to grant salvation to Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, David and others who lived and died before the cross they are forced to manufacture at least two plans of saving members of Adam's fallen family. By jerking verses away from their context they are enabled to "deceive the hearts of the "simple" with their "good words and fair speeches."—Rom. 16:17-10. But those who humbly read the two epistles that are written to give us the great underlying doctrines of "justification by faith," leam to their heart's delight that God gave the convenant of salvation thru faith to Abraham four hundred and thirty years before the "works covenant" (law and physical ordinances) was given to Moses; and that God confirmed that "covenant of promise" to Abraham IN CHRIST nineteen hundred years before Christ actually came into this world to literally die. In these two "salvation epistles," Romans and Galatians, water baptism is not once mentioned. (See above paragraph entitled Buried "With" or "Like"?)

This disgraceful "water-salvation" doctrine is but the teaching of "new gods newly come up."—Deut. 32:17.

Though sin did not enter until Adam's disobedience had made his whole future family "sinners" (Rom. 5:17-19 our Gracious God Who "knew the end from the beginning" "foreordained from before the foundation of the world" that Christ as "the Lamb of God" should appear in the fulness of time to "take away the sins of the world." Thus it is that Spirit taught Christians do not butcher God's plan of salvation by a carnal study of man's calendar as to the exact date when the body of our Blessed Lord was actually nailed to the cross for we are taught to "behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world," slain from the foundation of the world," "foreordained from before the foundation of the world."—John 1:29; 1 Pet. 1:18-20; Rev. 13:8.

[Brother Love]

Saved by “Dry” Baptism!

(Part 3)

CHRIST'S LIFE WAS "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW"

Water baptism is either a righteous act or it is an unrighteous act. In Matt. 3:15 Christ calls water baptism an act of righteousness. (See Titus 3:5). Now, all Bible students who have any intelligent conception of "rightly dividing the Word of truth" know that Christ's earthly life was "Made of a woman, made under the law to redeem them that were under the law."—Gal. 4:4-5; Rom. 15:8. Likewise Bible students who have any clear conception of God's different dispensations know that Christ lived for thirty years as a private, law keeping Jew for He said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets; I am not come to destroy but to fulfill."—Matt. 5:17.

Oh how few people seem to recognize that no one but Christ ever did keep the law with its God-given system of physical ordinances, its "meats and drinks and divers washings (different baptisms), and carnal ordinances, imposed on them (Jews) until the time of reformation."?—Heb. 9:8-10. And it was because Christ was born of a Jewish virgin under the law and the Jewish ordinances and came to "fulfill" them that His Heavenly Father never publicly endorsed Him until He had fulfilled ALL of the demands of that system of "meats and drinks and different baptisms."

You remember that it was immediately after Christ was baptized in the River Jor-don that the voice came from heaven saying: "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."—Matt. 3:13-17.

In other words, when He had gotten John to baptize Him with water, Christ had "fulfilled" the very last righteous act demanded by the law and its physical ordinances. John the Baptist was the foreordained one to thus baptize Christ so that Israel would know their Messiah and King. And, don't forget that, that is exactly why Christ was baptized in water, namely, "to fulfill all righteousness" and in order to "be made manifest to Israel."—Matt. 3:14-17; John 1:31.

When we thus clearly see that Christ's life for thirty years (Lk. 3:23) was lived in perfect obedience to the law and its physical ordinances we can then begin to see what we have when we, by faith, receive Christ. We have nothing less than the perfect "righteousness of the law" for "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."—Rom. 10:1-3. Thus it is that, without our having taken one single step in our vain efforts to keep the law or fulfill its physical ordinances with our weak and sinful flesh, we have put to our credit every righteous act that Christ performed during those thirty years of his righteous life lived in perfect, sinless flesh. "For what the law could not do in that it was weak thru the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."—Rom. 8:2-4.

There it is. The repentant sinner, by believing the gospel of Christ, has a miracle performed in his heart. All of the "righteousness of the law" that Christ lived in His perfect flesh and blood life is instantly put to the credit of the trusting sinner without his making any effort whatsoever to "walk after the flesh," or try to keep any fleshly tests of character.

How plain this is to every unspoiled mind that the only good works that a human being can possibly do always follow his being "created anew in Christ Jesus."

ALL JEWISH RELIGION EXTENDED BEYOND THE CROSS

The God-given commands for testing the corrupt flesh of Adam's race were allowed to continue long after Christ had fulfilled them all. However, though Christ had nailed fleshly tests to the cross as He died for us law-breakers (Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:6-17), still it pleased God to allow the Jewish temple to be left standing in Jerusalem and to allow even the Christian Jews to continue practicing all of the Jewish religion including circumcision, head-shaving and blood sacrifices along with the "divers baptisms."—Acts 16:3; 18:18; 21:18-26; 1 Cor. 9:19-22.

Apparently God allowed this system of Jewish ordinances to be practiced about thirty years after Christ fulfilled it because, in His patience, God only gradually showed the Jews how it was that His program was changing. But, as careful spiritual students have noticed, about the time Paul wrote his second letter to the Corinthians, God was "closing the books," as it were, on all fleshly tests (physical ordinances). How clear this is from 2 Cor. 5:16-17: "Henceforth (from now on) know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh (we knew Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, the properly circum-cized Jewish law-keeper, etc.), yet now henceforth, know we Him no more. Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Thus it was that after God had slowly led the Christians out of Jewish religion He had Paul finally write these glorious, liberating truths. "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."—Col. 2:10-17.

Let us who are saved remember well that water baptism is an act of righteousness that Christ fulfilled.—Matt. 3:15. And that that righteousness is put to our credit when we receive Christ as our personal Saviour and Lord.—Rom. 10:4. "For not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy hath he saved us by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit . . . But, let us who ARE saved be careful to maintain good works."—Titus 3:5-8. This we should do out of love and gratitude to Him who has so wondrously saved us and made us righteous in Christ.

(Please remember that this study does not pretend to take up the entire question of water baptism.)

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[musicllover]

Baptism is essential. Those who teach you don't have to be baptized are plainly and simply going against the very command of Christ, "Baptize them in the name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit..." And if anyone ever teaches someone differently, he is a liar and he does not know the truth. Follow Christ and His example, not the ideas of man or the traditions of a church.

You should change your name.

You get "TWO" Thumbs Down

Brother Love


<))><

Brother,
           So what do you think of anyone who has been baptized, or wants to be baptized or believes in baptism? If one believe that the scripture is telling them to follow a command (granted some go over board with what they feel God has told them such as Jone, Keresh etc etc) but if ones heart is sincere, honest, they aren't insane, or paranoid, water baptism isn't huring another person, and they believe they are baptized out of obedience to what the scriptures say how is that wrong?  Isn't there more danger in NOT obeying than obeying out of desire to please and follow the scriptures?

[++Blood Bought++]

Brother Love, you haven't been baptized? I'm very curious why you wouldn't be baptized... did Jesus not say "Go into all the world and make disciples of every nation BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father and the son and the Holy Spirit... teaching them to OBEY all I have COMMANDED and I will be with you till the end of the age." Matthew 28:19-20.

First Jesus commands us to go make disciples. Then He says BAPTIZE them. Then He says to TEACH them everything He commanded. Well, my friend, did Jesus not just command for us to baptize those into God's family? How can one say, "Baptism isn't necessary?" when jesus Himself said to go do it? Then He said to teach others to do the same.

"When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, 'Brothers, what shall we do?'
Peter replied, "Repent and be BAPTIZED, EVERY ONE OF YOU, in the name of JESUS CHRIST for THE FORGIVENESS of your SINS. And you will RECIEVE the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God WILL CALL (that's you and me friend)."
Acts 2:37-39

It's right there in the Bible. Not something made by man by commanded by the Lord Himself. And if you choose to reject that, then you reject the Bible, and you reject God's promises and blessings friend. And I don't understand why one would want to do that.

God bless.

[musicllover]

Acts 10:43. Note, also, that as soon as Peter said "these words" God saved all of those Gentiles "who heard the word." And they were saved before Peter had said a word about their being baptized with water, too.

Brother love,
             But Pete does mention baptism before the Holy Spirit falls, (37) saying that Jesus ministry began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached...  (Acts, verse 10:37).... I repeat " Jesus ministry began after the baptism that John preached."  I kinda see a pattern being set, one that is still a good pattern for today. Setting the standards that ALL MEN are saved by Jesus Christ, Jew and gentile. Peter a Jew even invited the gentile delagate into his home before leaving with them to Cornellius's house, something that never would have been done before Jesus death.  A Jew then goes to a gentiles house, and teaches and preaches to the gentiles, another first. The Holy Spirit falls and they are baptized....this is the beginning of a ministry by Peter to the gentiles, teaching and baptizing just as Jesus commanded. All in the orderly fashion of the Holy Spirit, I don't believe I've ever met, or seen or heard where a person gets baptized then decide to ask Jesus into there heart. So of coarse the baptism comes after.  Message, conviction, knowing and revieving what Jesus done, power of the Holy Spirit and then Pete baptized, Interesting is the verse Acts, 10:47 Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have recieved the Hooy Spirit just as we have?.....  FORBID, not, means to me can anyone deny these gentiles the right to be baptized. The Holy Spirit drew these men together for a greater purpose. Peter having been shown in a vison there was no more unclean food, that all men are saved Jew or gentiles. All learn thru this that Gentiles can speak in tongues, and praise Jesus, and be baptized too, seting the patterns used for today, ever man who except Jesus as Lord and Savior is saved, can recieve the Holy Spirit and be baptized.
     How do you simply throw out Christ's commanded to his disciples at his assenction, to go make disciples and baptize? Still curious too, what of all the many people who have been, will be, or believes in baptism, since you believe it is a bad testimony, what is the pushishment?
    I'll be gone on a quick south mo. vacation so hope hear from ya when I get back.
 still agreeing to disagree,
blessings,
musicllover  

[Brother Love]

Maybe you've been baptised with water or had some kind of "religious" experience, but you can receive this real baptism. The Lord Jesus died on the cross to bear my sins and your sins, to pay for them once for all time. Whoever you are, no matter where you've come from, no matter what you've ever done, if you have never trusted in Him, He's waiting for you and He's inviting you now to trust in Him as your Savior. Stop trying to save yourself. Stop depending on a church, a sacrament, some ritual prayers, or a religion. God will save you tonight if you will simply put your faith in, and rely on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior. At that very moment, God the Holy Spirit will baptize you and will place you into the body of the Lord Jesus Christ. You could never be closer to God than that. If you want to be saved right now, trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, and God will save you.

<))><

[bluelake]

We solemnly declare that the present day practice of
water baptism is a reflection on the grace of God and a con-
fession of a lack of appreciation of the finished work of
Christ, and the believers completeness in Him (See Eph.
1:6; Col. 2:10). Furthermore, it betrays a poor understand-
ing of the heavenly character and position of the Church of
this age (See Eph. 2:6; Eph. 1:3; Col. 3:1-3).
Be a Berean. Search the Scriptures and see whether
these things are so.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Cr 1:14   I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15   Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16   And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him.

Hmmmph.

"FOUR" thumbs down.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. NO WATER  READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, NO WATERREAD 1 Corinthians 12:13

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. NO WATER READ 1 Corinthians 12:13

1Cr 1:14   I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Cr 1:15   Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Cr 1:16   And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

READ VERSE SEVENTEEN

I suppose then, that Mr. Stam believes Paul committed a bad testimony, was a bad reflection on the grace of God, and did not appreciate the finished work of Jesus, nor his standing in Him. YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU SAY

Evangelist your teaching gets a "FIVE" Thumbs DOWN Your Preaching - That "other gospel" that Paul told us about


"...to make ALL men see" (Ephesians 3:9)

Brother Love

<))><

Thank you all for your response. However no one answered my question.
I agree that there is a difference between water baptism and Spirit baptism.
Who is Mr. Stam?

God bless,
bluelake