a question for all of you

[C C]

 

I firmly believe that since Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Light and that NO ONE comes to the Father Except through HIM then it will be Jesus who decides who comes to the Father.

Knowing Jesus I'm sure there will be lots of babies sitting around in heaven.  Lots.

Can you imagine Jesus checking his "legalism" list to determine what age and child needed to be before his accountability kicked in?

Can you imagine Jesus kicking sinners out of heaven?

Can you imagine Jesus making up stupid rules to keep good people out of heaven?

He died for our sins so that no one can parish but everyone can have everlasting life.  Sadly, or happily, everlasting is forever and there's just people that are evil that will make heaven miserable the same way they make earth miserable.  I'm afraid Christ will make them stay out but I know for sure he wont be happy about it.

The Truth is that Jesus is the Gate Keeper.  None of us gets to make judgements about who Jesus will let in and who Jesus will keep out.  We already know that Jesus will keep out some people who do stuff in His name--He will say "depart from me, I never knew you."  I have a feeling those are the folks that are like the teachers of the law and the pharisees that didn't practice mercy or make sacrifices so that others could live.  We have to make sacrifices of our time and energy and resources in hopes that other can live.  We can't just go around condemning sinners and teaching laws, because that's what behavior got the pharasees and the teachers of the law in so much trouble by Christ.

Peace

[Bronzesnake]

 Those who reject Jesus will not enter Heaven.
It doesn't matter how "good" a person may be, without Jesus even a "good person" will spend eternity in hell.

 The Bible says even our best works are as filthy rags in His eyes.

 Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 It is not God's will that even one person shall perish. That's true - it's our will, our own free will which ends up being the cause of our eternal destination. God wants all to be saved through jesus, however, He gave us free will to decide for ourselves. Some will be saved, others will not.

 neo my friend. If only you would put aside your cynicism and approach God with humility and honesty. You would then begin to understand the real meaning of His words, instead of using them out of context, as a platform for sarcasm.

Bronzesnake.

[JudgeNot]

I don't think I want to know the real meaning of some of the more morally bankrupt verses in the Bible.

Then quit posting scripture without knowing what you are posting (reading), and why it is scripture, and the context in which it was written as it pertains to our daily lives.  Sometimes, Neo, you really make a fool of yourself. The post referenced above is one of those times, and quite honestly, the last I can take from you.  I don’t have to attend “Duke University” (from a post you made because you somehow believed you could impress someone) to call a fool a fool.  
Of course, I mean that in a loving way.  

Think about it.  Remember; this is a Christian forum.  I've tried to get along with you, but calling Biblical Scripture "morally bankrupt" is childish, moronic, and against everything this forum is here for.

Maybe it's time for your to leave.  Take a hike.  Go insult someone else.  Your insults, here, are recognized as what they are.

Find another place to play you satanic games.

[Bronzesnake]

neo...

 

I don't believe in Satan, remember?

And that's exactly how he wants you neo...Ignorant - so he can continue to infest your soul and keep you a bitter angry man, right up to the point where you find yourself swimming beside him in a huge flaming lake.

  In the end neo, you will have no one to blame but yourself for where you will eventually end up. Christ is knocking, and you refuse to let Him in.

Bronzesnake.

 

[Heidi]

Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." This is true with children as well as adults. if a person is not being drawn by God then wild horses cannot make him believe. The ones whom God is drawing WILL DEFINIETLY come to God or god would have been wrong about his heart in the first place.

[Bronzesnake]

1.) How who wants me? Satan? Have we demonstrated that he exists yet?

 The point of my last post has been lost on you neo. satan does exist-you scoff at that idea, and that's exactly how he wants it neo. You are as a fish in a barrel to satan, as long as you keep him in the realm of fantasy. satan loves it! You're in eminant danger of companying him to eternal flame, and the really sad part about it is that, by choosing to mock Christianity, you are in effect, choosing to spend eternity in hell. Can't you hear the devil laughing at you neo? satan wants you to remain stupid.

2.) Since when am I bitter and/or angry? Do you purport to know me, Bronzesnake?

 It's not hard to figure out neo. What kind of mindset are you in? You spend a lot of time here, and, yes, it is your right to do so. However, one has to seriously wonder about such a person. Someone who does not believe, that spends so much time and effort mocking Christian debates and doctrines on a Christian web site. To what end neo? Surely you don't expect to gain any support here - we're Christians!

Only a person with a bitter mindset, or some kind of mentally unhealthy predisposition would waste his/her time like this neo.

 The only other possibility is that you are actually looking for the truth, and are too embarrassed at the moment to admit it, therefor, you're putting on the mask of an atheist in order to cover your true expression.

3.) Argumentum ad baculum. Nice try, though.

 That would be a good argument except it implies there isn't a loving God who offers eternal joy and bliss in a world of unimaginable beauty. Where's the force? where's the fear?
You aren't being forced to accept Jesus are you neo? You do have free will do you not neo?

There are consequences for any worthwhile venture we undertake in life neo-should we abandon our quest for everything which may have a negative consequence?

 The appeal to force or fear actually applies best to atheist neo. You live, you die, you're dead. The fear of not existing is the millstone around your neck neo. Christians aren't feverishly trying to find scientific magic pills to prolong life, that's you guys. You do it because you fear not being alive.
It's the scientific mindset which has the entire world in the grip of atomic annihilation neo, not Jesus.

Bronzesnake.

 

[His_child]

nimble- just curious- how old are you?

[nimble]

25. Not that it matters. I would ask you why you asked that, but I dont want to get off topic. I have a major in economics. And in philosophy. That might be why I renounced my formerly methodist beliefs.

[Bronzesnake]

I am atheist. I was christian for 17 years of my life. I think I can provide a clear view of both sides of the argument since I have seen both sides, and know each argument inside and out.

First, the christian concept of god is contradictory (not all gods are contradictory but this one is). God is omnipotent right? So can god create a rock? Yes. Can god lift a rock? Yes. Can god create a rock so big that he cant lift it?

That is a very simplistic view of my point. Ill explain in a more detailed way. Omnipotence is contradictory. omnipotence implies that there is no limit to ones power. But does god have the power to limit his power? No, because if he did he would cease to be omnipotent.

Second, is that the ASSUMPTION that god exists, is a fundamentally flawed way of seeking truth. When you claim "god exists" you arbitrarily make an assumption. You make that your axiom and then base your argument off of it. Your claim is the equivalent of me saying "ahkdjaof jdakldf jadj exists." I havent defined what I say exists. I havent offered proof either. How do you know what I am even claiming exists? I must first define it and provide examples or you wont even know what I am talking about.

So, can you DEFINE god?

Also, when you say "god exists" you claim that things exist outside of reality correct? Reality is defined as all that which exists. So when you say things exist outside of reality, then you are saying that existence=non-existence, that reality (which is existence) = non-reality. This creates a contradiction at the very root of your existence. If you think that that which does not exist by definition, exists, then all the knowledge you attain in reality is nullified by that claim. Because reality=nonreality. So the things you learnn in reality are then unreal. ANd the things you learn outside of reality are real.

So you are left with a choice when someone claims god is real. You must ignore that person, or discard ALL previously held real knowledge (this includes language, math, and even the fact that you exist, because you cannot possibly know that when you believe in god).

The problem with your "God can't lift rock" analogy, is that you're judging God based on human reasoning.

 Also, you think you are in a unique position because you "have seen both sides" Do you honestly believe all Christians were born Christians? I was a drinking, drug infested, biker lifestyle, low life, down and out of luck, non believer for twenty six years of my life. I have also seen both sides. You obviously know one side pretty good, however, you don't know God, that's for certain. God is the antithisis of non-reality my friend.

 Anyone who thinks they can figure out or psychoanalyze God is either seriously deluded, or fooling himself.

 Bronzesnake.

[His_child]

25. Not that it matters. I would ask you why you asked that, but I dont want to get off topic. I have a major in economics. And in philosophy. That might be why I renounced my formerly methodist beliefs.

When did you become a Christian?

[Heidi]

Romans, 7:7, "the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so." Atheists prove this to be true. 1 Co. 3:19, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight." People can only understand what they understand, and nothing more. As Paul said, it's impossible for atheists to understand God. Arguing with them is like speaking Russian to people who cannot understand Russian.

[His_child]

25. Not that it matters. I would ask you why you asked that, but I dont want to get off topic. I have a major in economics. And in philosophy. That might be why I renounced my formerly methodist beliefs.

It matters because I'm curious to know when you made a decision to follow Christ and when you renounced Him. I'm also curious to know why you first made a decision and then later changed your mind.
You've given some details as to why you changed your mind, but I missed the details about the day you gave your heart to Him.
What happened on the day you gave your heart to Him?

[nimble]

I became christian basically from birth. However, I didnt accept god until I was 5. I renounced god after a few books, and 9 philosophy classes.

I can define myself, every single cell in me has an identity, which can be analyzed and described.

I would like to ask a few questions which will lead into an argument later. How do you think that men acquire knowledge? (this is epistomology) And if god is incomprehensible, and cannot be judged by human reasoning, then what makes you think that he isnt supernatural? That sounds very similar to the definition of supernatural: not subject to natural laws and incomprehensible.

[Gracey]

That sounds very similar to the definition of supernatural: not subject to natural laws and incomprehensible.

Natural laws? Since God created the heavens & the earth, and everything in it, then I suppose you would have to ask Him to define what "natural laws" are. His definition is likely to be somewhat different than ours.

Uh, now I'll butt out.

Cheers
Gracey

[michael_legna]

I became christian basically from birth. However, I didnt accept god until I was 5. I renounced god after a few books, and 9 philosophy classes.

I can define myself, every single cell in me has an identity, which can be analyzed and described.

I doubt that you can define yourself as Plato showed in the Thaeatetus that we cannot even successfully define simple objects such as a chair without resorting to something we call "chairness".  If you can define yourself do so in front of all of us.

I would like to ask a few questions which will lead into an argument later. How do you think that men acquire knowledge? (this is epistomology)

If you want to get into epistomology then you will need to define knowledge.  By knowledge do you mean true belief, or justified true belief or just what?  That alone is a semester long debate.

And if god is incomprehensible, and cannot be judged by human reasoning, then what makes you think that he isnt supernatural?

Who said God wasn't supernatural?

That sounds very similar to the definition of supernatural: not subject to natural laws and incomprehensible.

Whose definition of supernatural are you using?  Until you establish some credibility here you will need to provide sources for all your claims and even definitions, even if they appear to be something that can be agreed upon up front.  

Philosophy is all about the definitions is it not?