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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
287026 Posts in 27572 Topics by 3790 Members
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Author Topic: One Father who is in heaven  (Read 35341 times)
Corpus
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« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2004, 08:26:04 AM »

Heidi,

Quote
The very fact that i was banned showed that they considered any insinuation that the pope was a mere human being to be blasphemy. They then must see him as God. That is indeed blasphemy!

If that was true it would indeed be blasphemy, but I suspect you unloaded on them without fully understanding the position of the pope. And if you watched a 3 hour documentary about the pope on A&E, I'd assume you understand how Catholics do not worship the pope.

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The fact that they defend the pope more than Christ Himself shows who they really worship.

No. It reflects who non-Catholics spend their time attacking. If people spent as much time trashing Christ on these forums as they do the papacy, then you'd see just as much, if not more people rising to the occassion.

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Apparently, they think they are above being called to account. That is, of course, the sin of pride. "He exhalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exhalted." There is no free speech in the catholic church. It very much discourages that. That speaks for itself.

Again simply not true, and since when does a single website become representative for a faith encompassing 1 billion+ adherents?

You said you had no prior knowledge that Catholics referred to the pope as holy father, a very basic and commonly known fact, and now proclaim to know that there is no free speech within the church you were just moments ago admitting some ignorance about. Being upset does no entitle us to assumptions about other faiths.

I'd like to view the other website you're referring to. Can you leave the address so others can check it out as well?
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Heidi
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« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2004, 10:31:27 AM »

Catholics say they don't worship the pope just like Muslims say they don't worship Mohammed. But it is Mohammed's words that allah even exists. Therefore, their whole faith relies on his credibility alone!

If catholics do not worship the pope, then why do they feel the need to call the pope "Holy Father"? What is the reason behind it? What purpose does it serve? If they call the pope "Hoy Father" then what do they call God?

I would love to embrace the catholic church but its focus is placed more on the clergy and Mary than on Christ Himself. Again, what is the purpose in it? I don't hear reverence for Christ. I hear reverence for the clergy. How is that not idol worship? For some reason they want people to believe that it is they who forive sins at baptism. Oh, I know they say it's from God but who has the power to tell God what to do? God gives the Holy Spirit to whomever He pleases whenever He pleases.

There are millions of people who were baptized and are atheists. I was baptized as an infant and didn't have a clue who Christ was until I receieved the Holy Spirit 37 years later. If I had received the Holy Spirit at baptism as the catholics claim, then rejected it, then how could I have received it later in life? According to Christ, this is impossible because He said that the only unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Their argument that people can become unsaved once they're saved also contradicts Jesus's words that "No one can snatch them out of my hand."

The bible warns us about false teachers and tells us to use discernment.  If we blindly accept everything anyone who claims he has the knowledge of God says, then we are in danger of being deceived. I just saw a documentary on the Ku Klux Klan who claim that they are followers of Christ. But their fruits show otherwise. So fo the fruits of the catholic church. It's based on dogma, fear, and idol worship. Those are not the fruits of the spirit. They also refer to themselves as the catholic religion or the catholic faith instead of the Christian faith. This also shows where their values are. We are supposed to be one in Christ, not one in the pope. Do they see themselves as some kind of a cult? Then why do they isolate themselves?
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« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2004, 10:44:51 AM »

There was a recent editiorial letter sent in by a staunch catholic lady. She was absolutely livid about what a young protestant man had asked her after they both were leaving the PASSION movie- his offense was in asking, "Are you born again?" This attitude is frequent in the RCC or CC if you prefer.

The John Kerry question with communion and all sorts of other "HAPPENINGS" are only symptoms of what this organization really is all about.

aw
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darby
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« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2004, 11:22:29 AM »

aw,

please enlighten me as to what is the John Kerry question with communion is.
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« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2004, 11:30:41 AM »

Surely. There has been quite a furor raised in this regard recently as he claims to be a devout catholic while actively supporting abortion and the the right of a woman to choose that procedure. He is for partial birth abortions, but claims that he has the right to vote HIS CONSCIENCE in spite of what the catholic church doctrine requires.

The cc is considering a procedure that will determine if a POLITICIAN should be denied COMMUNION if they are for some things expressly forbidden by the cc; eg., ABORTION.

He has also apparently violated another cc doctrine with regard to his first wife and their divorce. Still further grounds for him being denied communion.

He should just become a protestant and go to the largest denomination(Baptists) where he would be welcomed and would garner more votes.(Just make sure it is also a predominatly African-American Assembly- tongue is in my cheek)

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« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2004, 12:56:26 PM »

thanks!
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Corpus
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« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2004, 02:14:36 PM »

Heidi,

I'd still like to see that website...
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« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2004, 02:16:08 PM »

Sure. It does raise some dicey questions and the various cc representatives on television are "at each other's throats" about how to hanfdle the situation. I think Kerrey would do himself and all of us a favor by not trying to appear so religious. It has been obviously staged to curry favour for his campaign.

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« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2004, 06:53:11 PM »

Corpus,
I just typed in catholic church and a listing of websites came up. I clicked on Catholics online. Their website includes a forum on which people can post. As long as you call the pope Holy Father and the priests Father, you are welcomed there. If you disagree with the notion that they can forgive sins then you are not welcomed there.
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« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2004, 07:05:07 PM »

Catholics say they don't worship the pope just like Muslims say they don't worship Mohammed. But it is Mohammed's words that allah even exists. Therefore, their whole faith relies on his credibility alone!
And...?
Christianity's faith rests on the credibility of the Bible, but you don't worship that, I hope.

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If catholics do not worship the pope, then why do they feel the need to call the pope "Holy Father"?

In recognition of the very special job God has called him to do.

Quote
What is the reason behind it? What purpose does it serve?

See above.  When someone or something is set apart for God it's reasonable to give it or them special honour and respect, just as Gabriel honoured Mary.  I dare say you treat your Bible with a level of respect beyond that you give to any ordinary book.

The word Holy doesn't imply worship, and isn't reserved for God, it's reserved for that which is of God.

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If they call the pope "Hoy Father" then what do they call God?
God, Lord, Holy Father, Father, Heavenly King, etc, etc.   Anything we call God is pathetically inadequate and (expect for God itself) are titles "borrowed" from worldly relationships.

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I would love to embrace the catholic church but its focus is placed more on the clergy and Mary than on Christ Himself.

How do you know this, when you didn't even know what Catholics call the Pope?  There are words to describe people who speak and act from ignorance like that.

The sad fact is that there are some Catholics in certain times and places who have put more focus than they should on the clergy and on Mary, but they don't represent the whole Church or its official teaching.

Quote
Again, what is the purpose in it? I don't hear reverence for Christ.
When?   How often have you been into Catholic services or a Catholic school?  In my experience, the reverence for Christ puts many protestants to shame and far outweighs any reverence for Mary, the clergy or anyone else.

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I hear reverence for the clergy. How is that not idol worship?

Because reverence is not worship, however much you want it to be.

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For some reason they want people to believe that it is they who forive sins at baptism. Oh, I know they say it's from God but who has the power to tell God what to do?

They aren't telling God what to do, they are acting with the authority that God gives them.  You are the one trying to tell God what to do, by demanding that He work in a way that makes instant sense to you.

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God gives the Holy Spirit to whomever He pleases whenever He pleases.

No-one is saying otherwise.

Quote
There are millions of people who were baptized and are atheists. I was baptized as an infant and didn't have a clue who Christ was until I receieved the Holy Spirit 37 years later. If I had received the Holy Spirit at baptism as the catholics claim, then rejected it, then how could I have received it later in life?

There are a heap of ways of interpreting that.  I don't know which is official Catholic teaching.

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According to Christ, this is impossible because He said that the only unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit.

No, He said the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, without defining what that is.

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Their argument that people can become unsaved once they're saved also contradicts Jesus's words that "No one can snatch them out of my hand."
No-one snatched them - they walked away.

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The bible warns us about false teachers and tells us to use discernment.  If we blindly accept everything anyone who claims he has the knowledge of God says, then we are in danger of being deceived. I just saw a documentary on the Ku Klux Klan who claim that they are followers of Christ. But their fruits show otherwise. So fo the fruits of the catholic church. It's based on dogma, fear, and idol worship.


It's certainly not based on fear anymore - if it ever was.  Can't say the same for those churches who still preach "Hell-fire and damnation" sermons though.

All churches (except, maybe the quakers) are based on dogma's.  How do you have any church which doesn't have certain doctrines that you have to believe.   Or maybe you don't know what dogma means.

As for the idol worship, it simply isn't true.

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They also refer to themselves as the catholic religion or the catholic faith instead of the Christian faith. This also shows where their values are.

The name Catholic Church does recognise Christ, since the Chuch is the Body of Christ.  It's impossible to be the Church without Christ. There has been a period in a few protestant dominated western countries where Catholics have avoided calling themselves Christians to distance themselves from extream evangelical Christians, but those days are pretty much over and were never true in Catholic dominated countries.  The Catholics I work with are proud to call themselves Christian, and the schools documents do refer to it repeatedly as being a Christian school.

It should be remembered that Christian isn't a Christ given name for those who follow Him.  The early church didn't call itself Christian, Paul never called himself a Christian.  Its a form of abuse that the Church eventually took over for itself.

You seem to be demanding that the RCC work in the way you want, use the names you want, limit God to what you understand and use your definitions all the time.

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We are supposed to be one in Christ, not one in the pope.
And we are.

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Do they see themselves as some kind of a cult?

Defintely not.

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Then why do they isolate themselves?
In what way are they isolating themselves?  Welcoming people into their churches and schools isn't very isolating.  Making the churches teachings and operation open for all to see isn't very isolating.
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ebia
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« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2004, 07:14:36 PM »

There was a recent editiorial letter sent in by a staunch catholic lady. She was absolutely livid about what a young protestant man had asked her after they both were leaving the PASSION movie- his offense was in asking, "Are you born again?" This attitude is frequent in the RCC or CC if you prefer.
Since you don't say why she said she was offended it's hard to comment, but you need to remember that Catholics use different language to protestants.  

Quote
The John Kerry question with communion and all sorts of other "HAPPENINGS" are only symptoms of what this organization really is all about.
How is the fact that RCC believes absolutely that abortion is murder and wants its members to tow that line wrong?  And why would you trust a polititian to represent the church fairly?

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« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2004, 08:41:34 PM »

less talk more rock
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aw
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« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2004, 11:25:31 PM »

Just respond to the ccc 889 and 890. Even the cc catechisms are inconsistent in what is presented.

The entire foundation is wrong to begin with- Peter was not the first pope and I challenge you to present one shred of scriptural evidence that he even visited Rome. In the entire scriptural record where people who are addressed as being in Rome and apostles named, Peter's name is always conspicuously lacking. Surely someone of his stature would be named?Huh

My view is that the RCC is indeed ecclesiastical Babylon and the Anti-christ will certainly use it. Christ is preached in some fashion and perhaps a few are saved, but to be forewarned is to be foreaermed/

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Heidi
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« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2004, 01:36:05 AM »

Ebia,
For someone who is so quick to accuse others of being foolish and ignorant, I've never seen so many ignorant responses in one post as there are in your last post. If you don't see the contradictions in them already, then pointing them out to you is a complete waste of time.  I'll pray for you.
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ebia
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« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2004, 03:43:21 AM »

Ebia,
For someone who is so quick to accuse others of being foolish and ignorant, I've never seen so many ignorant responses in one post as there are in your last post. If you don't see the contradictions in them already, then pointing them out to you is a complete waste of time.  I'll pray for you.
How many "ignorant responses" can there be in a 4 line post?

Or did you mean the one before that?  Perhaps the fact that you get abusive with anyone who disagrees with you points to the reason you got booted off that board.

Let's face it, the only time anyone says something like this: "If you don't see the contradictions in them already, then pointing them out to you is a complete waste of time" its because they can't form a reasoned response to the post.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2004, 03:50:50 AM by ebia » Logged

"You shall know the truth, the truth shall set you free.

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