Eternal Security.

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Sower,

Brother, it's nice to see you back.

In Christ

[ollie]

How do these fit in to the study of osas, osnas, apostasy, and falling away?

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,    giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding  to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3

Now. we beseech you brethen, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,   and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;.......
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

[Early57]

God used symbols for us in many places in His word.

Like Family.

Like Marriage.

Like Son.

Like Daughter.


May I ask, who here has a Son or Daughter?

I have a few of both.


There is no way to remove them from being mine. so if that is true and if I said they were not mine that would be a lie.  

Does God lie?


If He said He does not know me than He would have to lie.

God gave us common sense.  You can quote scripture all day long, but it will not change that He called me "Son" and to come back and say "Depart from me... I never knew you" to me would be a lie.

OSAS  I do not care about.  

But to call me "Son" That I care about.

And I call Him Father.  I would have to lie to say I never knew Him and I'm created in His image and after His Likeness.  

Abba Father, Daddy.

[ollie]

How do these verses fit into the study of osas, osnas, apostasy, or falling away?

But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy, and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.  
Luke 8:13

[nChrist]

How do these fit in to the study of osas, osnas, apostasy, and falling away?

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,    giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding  to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

1 Timothy 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrine of devils;
1 Timothy 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Timothy 4:3  Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4  For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:1 - The departure spoken of here is not departure from Salvation, rather an error against doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. If you look in later verses and throughout this chapter, this is an exhortation for the ministry of truth in the Gospel of God's Grace. These verses refer to articles of doctrine in the Gospel of God's Grace.

As an example of errors in doctrine, the point is made in 1 Timothy 4:3 that forbidding marriage and the eating of meat is not part of the doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. If it is not forbidden by the Gospel of God's Grace, it is false teaching and an error. If your minister told you marriage would cause the forfeit of your salvation, that would be false doctrine. If your minister told you that eating meat would cause the forfeit of your salvation, that would be false doctrine. However, you would not lose your salvation if you believed you couldn't eat meat or marry. Some of the other things that would apply in verse one would be numerology, astrology, palm-reading, etc., etc., etc. You would not lose your salvation if you believed in these things, but they would be a departure from the doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. As another example in 1 Timothy 4:3, a priest believing he couldn't be married would not cause him to lose his salvation. However, it would be false teaching and contrary to the Gospel of God's Grace.

In conclusion, errors in doctrine do not equal loss of salvation.

[nChrist]

Now. we beseech you brethen, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,   and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;.......
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

I'm sorry it took so long for me to get these posted. I've been busy and back and forth to the doctor.

2 Thessalonians 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The apostle is addressing fears of the people they may have some error in doctrine and the second coming of Christ is at hand. The apostle calms them by explaining that the anti-christ will be revealed prior to the second coming of Christ. The falling away spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is those who will follow the anti-christ.

[Sower]

Oklahoma Howdy to Sower, Brother, it's nice to see you back.
In Christ

Thanks Bro. You've posted an excellent Gospel message. I would encourage you to create a tract out of it and distribute it in printed form. Too many tracts have too little Scripture. Also, put this of the other Christian forums on the Internet. The Lord bless you, Brother.

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Sower,

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed my post. I did post it on one other forum. I like to use Bible Verses because of the beauty in the writing, almost poetry. My own words are simple and not very stylish or pretty, but I do feel called to stand up and speak up. I'll do so as long as God lets me live. I figure the worst that can happen is I'll be arrested and forced to attend English and composition classes.  

In Christ.

[kathleen5]

Pilgrim,  thanks for your post.  I've enjoyed reading all the responses.  I was especially grateful for the Heb 6:4.  This verse has always confused me and just today I listened to a teaching on the very same explanation for that verse!  God is good.

In Christ
Kathleen

[ollie]

How do these fit in to the study of osas, osnas, apostasy, and falling away?

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,    giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding  to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

1 Timothy 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrine of devils;
1 Timothy 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Timothy 4:3  Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4  For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:1 - The departure spoken of here is not departure from Salvation, rather an error against doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. If you look in later verses and throughout this chapter, this is an exhortation for the ministry of truth in the Gospel of God's Grace. These verses refer to articles of doctrine in the Gospel of God's Grace.

As an example of errors in doctrine, the point is made in 1 Timothy 4:3 that forbidding marriage and the eating of meat is not part of the doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. If it is not forbidden by the Gospel of God's Grace, it is false teaching and an error. If your minister told you marriage would cause the forfeit of your salvation, that would be false doctrine. If your minister told you that eating meat would cause the forfeit of your salvation, that would be false doctrine. However, you would not lose your salvation if you believed you couldn't eat meat or marry. Some of the other things that would apply in verse one would be numerology, astrology, palm-reading, etc., etc., etc. You would not lose your salvation if you believed in these things, but they would be a departure from the doctrine of the Gospel of God's Grace. As another example in 1 Timothy 4:3, a priest believing he couldn't be married would not cause him to lose his salvation. However, it would be false teaching and contrary to the Gospel of God's Grace.

In conclusion, errors in doctrine do not equal loss of salvation.

Does that mean one can stray from God's will and still be saved?
Thank you for the reply. I am studying your thoughts.

Ollie

[ollie]

Now. we beseech you brethen, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,   and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;.......
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

I'm sorry it took so long for me to get these posted. I've been busy and back and forth to the doctor.

2 Thessalonians 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The apostle is addressing fears of the people they may have some error in doctrine and the second coming of Christ is at hand. The apostle calms them by explaining that the anti-christ will be revealed prior to the second coming of Christ. The falling away spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is those who will follow the anti-christ.

Hi,

I pray you are ok, what with your trips to the doctor.
I appreciate your replies. Thank you for taking the time. I am considering your thoughts on the verses. I do have a question.
Those who will fall away and follow the man of sin; will they still be saved?

Thanks again,
In His love,
Ollie

[nChrist]

Does that mean one can stray from God's will and still be saved?
Thank you for the reply. I am studying your thoughts.

Ollie

Yes, if you are talking about an error of doctrine. There is no faith or denomination without an error of doctrine, mainly because there is no one and true interpretation of the Holy Bible. Let me give you a couple more examples. Let's say your church says women can't cut their hair. This is not part of the Gospel of God's Grace. If the woman cut her hair or didn't cut her hair, it would not mean she either kept her salvation or lost it simply because of what she did with her hair. This command from the church would be false teaching.

Example 2: Your pastor commands all must wear robes without buttons or zippers, rather of simple hooks and eyes. This is not part of the Gospel of the Grace of God. Using buttons or not using buttons would not maintain or lose salvation. This command by the pastor would be an error in doctrine and a departure from the Gospel of God's Grace. This command from the pastor would be false teaching.

There would be other errors from doctrine that would be part of the Gospel of God's Grace. It would depend on what the error was and whether or not you knew it to be sin as to how it would effect your fellowship with Christ. Example 1: you check your horoscope in the newspaper every day just for fun and think nothing of it. Example 2: You consult a palm reader before you make any kind of a decision. Example 3: Money has become a God in your life. Example 4: You cheat on your wife. There might be debate on example 1, less debate on example 2, and no debate on examples 3 & 4. The next question would be, if you repent and confess these sins, would God forgive you, or would you forfeit your salvation?

[nChrist]

Hi,

I pray you are ok, what with your trips to the doctor.

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

I have a chronic condition in my back from an infection in my spine several years ago. It was nearly fatal twice and it ate part of my spine. Recent tests indicate no sign of the infection. My biggest problem is pain, but my doctor is making things somewhat better. Regardless, I'm very happy and thankful to be alive.

I appreciate your replies. Thank you for taking the time. I am considering your thoughts on the verses. I do have a question.
Those who will fall away and follow the man of sin; will they still be saved?

Thanks again,
In His love,
Ollie

I will need some help answering this question. I have done some study on the anti-Christ and those who will be deceived and/or follow him. I would first ask whether the follower was ever saved in the first place. I've done some interesting word studies on the word "fall" and how it is used in numerous portions of the Bible. It is rendered "stumble" in many cases, indicating a fault or sin that can be repented of and forgiven. The word "salvation" also has some varying uses (i.e. saved from physical death, saved from spiritual death). It is rendered "escape" in some areas. There is also a doctrine of rewards lost in some cases, as opposed to loss of salvation.

I can only offer an opinion without evidence on this question. I think I'll have to leave this one to a preacher or Bible scholar using the forum. This one is over my head, but I do believe that a truly saved person cannot lose their salvation. Man is imperfect and all will fail, but God is perfect, pure, and cannot lie. If God makes a promise, IT'S DONE! Regarding Biblical evidence of what will be lost or not lost with the followers of the anti-Christ, I can't provide it.

[sincereheart]

Wow! Thanks Pilgrim and Blackeyed Peas!   Awesome job! What an encouragement!

[sincereheart]

"Falling away" doctrine makes us worse off after we are saved than before. At least before conversion we can get saved. But after we are saved and have lost our salvation (if we could), we can't get saved again, but are lost forever. Hebrews 6:4 declares, "If [not when] they shall fall away... it is impossible (v.4)...to renew them again unto repentance." That "falling away" is hypothetical is clear (v.9): "But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak" So "falling away" does not "accompany salvation." The writer is showing us that if we could lose our salvation, we could never get it back without Christ dying again upon the cross. This is folly! He would have to die an infinite number of times (i.e., every time every person who was once saved sinned and was lost and wanted to be "saved again"). Thus, those who reject "once saved, always saved," can only replace it with, "once lost, always lost!"

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/once_saved.htm