JEWISH!!

[Allinall]

Okay.  Backup a minute here.  Are you still unbelieving of Jesus' Jewish heritage Heidi?  Because if you are, you are heretical.  If Christ were not man (and a Jewish man according the very promise God made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David), then He would not have been the "seed of the woman" referred to in Genesis 3:15.  He would not be the acceptable sacrifice God demanded - a sinlessly perfect human, the second Adam (Hebrew for "man).  Just a little clarification, but is this what you are saying?

[Saved_4ever]

Nice soap box but how about Last Adam instead of second Adam.  It's not like there's going to be another one.

[Allinall]

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45

I stand abashedly corrected!      Not to imply yet another.   The point being that to be the last Adam, He'd have to be human.  Forgive me all?

[Petro]

Whats more, Jesus is the "only begotten Son of God", born of  the seed of a woman.

While everone else is born of the seed of the serpent, with the exception of Adam and Eve.

Here it is;

Gen 3
14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15  And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This is why, it is clear, all born of women are dead in sin and tresspass to the things of God.

There is no enmity between the serpent and his own seed, but there is enmity between the adoptd sons of God and the god of this world.

Jamers 4
4  ..............................., know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Blessings,

Petro

[Allinall]

Amen Petro!  100% completely God, and 100% completely man.  The Son of God and the Son of Man.

[Heidi]

I wonder if we're not just quibbling over semantics here. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. In the beginning He was with God and reincarnated into the womb of a woman whose heritage was Jewish. Since Jesus was one of a kind, I don't see why we can compare Him to us.  His heritage is definitely different than the rest of us. I see Him as a separate entity and not subject to the rules of mere ordinary men. I can see the viewpoint of people who say He's Jewish and I can see the viewpoint of people who say He's the son of God. I prefer to believe that He is the son of God born into the womb of a Jewish woman since he is not subject to the DNA of either of His parents. I do not believe that is heretical in any way.

[Tibby]

"Fish slaps heidi* Sorry, I have to do it!

Anyway, Jesus is fully man, and fully God, what are you questioning? This isn't semantics, we are just trying to understnad if you are telling us he IS NOT fully man!

So, do you beleive Jesus was fully Man, and fully God?

[Heidi]

Do you believe that Jesus was conceived by God or 2 humans? Jesus does not fit into the category that the rest of us humans do who are fully human. How can we compare Him to us?I told you exactly what I blieve, that He was conceived by God into the womb of a Jewish woman. I think that is more truthful than saying He was conceived the way the rest of us were. I don't think this question is an "either or" one. Happy face.

[Tibby]

Yes or No: do you beleive Jesus was fully Man, and fully God?

[Corpus]

First and foremost I must apologize to Petro for my earlier comment. It was flippant and downright rude. You are undeserving of such remarks and I ask your forgiveness for my insult.

The docrine of the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary (the mother of Christ) was invented by Rome in 1854 by Pope Pius IX , proclaimed and defined this dogma, here is what he said:
"In the frist instance of her conception, by a singular privilige and grace granted by God, in view of the human race, the Virign Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."  (Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854)
Pius XI (Enclclical Lux veritatis, Christmas Day, 1931)

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was officially defined (not invented) by Pope Pius IX in 1854.

Doctrines are only formally defined when there is a controversy that needs to be cleared up or when the magisterium (the Church in its office as teacher; cf. Matt. 28:18–20; 1 Tim. 3:15, 4:11) thinks the faithful can be helped by particular emphasis being drawn to some already-existing belief. The definition of the Immaculate Conception was prompted by the latter motive; it did not come about because there were widespread doubts about the doctrine. In fact, the Vatican was deluged with requests from people desiring the doctrine to be officially proclaimed.

All this is foreign to scripture, and has no place in Christian worship, nor theology.

This teaching was an invention by this pope, and a teaching of men taught as though it be a doctrine of God.

As we've been over before, what is foreign to scripture is entirely dependant upon how one defines what IS scripture and what is or is not proper interpretation. The Bible according to Larry, Steve, Susan or whomever is a subjective enterprise at best with the Holy Spirit proclaimed as the inspiration for a variety of contradictory interpretations. That in itself demands a temporal authority. One might dispute it being the Catholic Church, but one cannot logically dispute the necessity of an authority if consistency in interpretation is to be maintained.

And the incarnation is of course what was defined by the Council of Nicea. It is the eternal Sonship of Christ, that He was eternally begotten of the Father. This is clearly manifested in 1 John 4:9 and John 1:1,14.

[Saved_4ever]

Do you believe that Jesus was conceived by God or 2 humans? Jesus does not fit into the category that the rest of us humans do who are fully human. How can we compare Him to us?I told you exactly what I blieve, that He was conceived by God into the womb of a Jewish woman. I think that is more truthful than saying He was conceived the way the rest of us were. I don't think this question is an "either or" one. Happy face.

UUMm Heidi if you don't believe that Jesus was fully man and fully God we have a big problem.  No one is saying anything about Jesus being concieved by two humans.  I guarantee you would find some of Mary's DNA in Jesus if we could.  Sin comes from the man not the woman.  Regardless of all of that, Jesus was fully man and fully God else he could not have been our saviour.  For if He was not man then His life and death would be useless to us.

[Petro]

I wonder if we're not just quibbling over semantics here. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. In the beginning He was with God and reincarnated into the womb of a woman whose heritage was Jewish.

heidi,

Jesus never existed in the flesh, so it can hardly be said, he was reincarnated.

That he took on the form of sinful flesh, without being born in sin, as every other human, and He never sinned, the scriptures tell us, this so that we might believe it.

Note;

Phil2
5  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And again;

Rom 8
8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Or,

Heb 2
14  Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15  And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16  For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
3:1  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2  Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3  For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4  For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

You have heard that God is building Himself a building, (Eph 2:13-22) of which His children are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets.

Jesus is the chief cornerstone, and it was set by God himself. No man laid it, and no man can lay another. (1 Cor 3:11)

If Jesus was not found to be of the same flesh in His human nature, then He never could have died the death, because the life of the flesh in in the blood, and God said

"I have given it to you upon the alter as an atonement for youy souls" "for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."    (Lev 17:11)

So if you don't believe Jesus came in human flesh, then you are not of God, according to scripture.

1 Jhn 4
2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


I trust you believe Gods word.


Petro

[Heidi]

Of course Jesus was fully man AND fully God which is why i don't think of Him as a descendant in the same manner as the rest of us. All of us humans were conceived by the egg and sperm of two  human beings. The DNA is found in the merging of the egg and sperm. The egg and sperm is what gives us our DNA. The notion that God planted a fully fertiized egg in someone is so miraculous and foreign to to the birth of every other person that there is nothing "normal" about it. In that respect, i do not see how we can compare Him to a typical human being, do you?

[Petro]

Of course Jesus was fully man AND fully God which is why i don't think of Him as a descendant in the same manner as the rest of us. All of us humans were conceived by the egg and sperm of two  human beings. The DNA is found in the merging of the egg and sperm. The egg and sperm is what gives us our DNA. The notion that God planted a fully fertiized egg in someone is so miraculous and foreign to to the birth of every other person that there is nothing "normal" about it. In that respect, i do not see how we can compare Him to a typical human being, do you?

heidi,

You do wrest the scriptures.

Where do you pretend to get the idea "that God planted a fully fertiized egg in someone", the scripture tells us;

Lk 1
35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Mary wasn't just artifically inseminated, her blood ran in the veins of Jesus, this is the only way, the prophecy could be fulfilled that God made to Abraham, when promised to him, that from his own loins He would raise up unto Him a Son which would fulfill the promise (Gen 17:5-8), and to King David that the Christ would come from his seed (Jhn 7:42, Rom 1:3) of the tribe of Judah.

Both Mary and Joseph were cousins, descendants of Judah, and of Nathan the son of King David.

I am afraid you do errorr on this point..

Petro

[Heidi]

So, whose sperm was it?