Truth

[Hunibuni]

I am glad to know that we can agree to disagree. I pray that as everyone go out to celebrate this event that you re-evaluate your motives and just for one moment in time ask your Heavenly Father, Savior, and Holy Spirit is this pleasing in their sight. What ever His response is for you is what is right for you. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord in that way that he has lead us too. May the Good Lord continue to walk us into all truth. For with all your getting (candy on this day) get understanding.

[ollie]

Well, just to add another view, do remember that Halloween is a PAGAN holiday, and that TRUE PAGANS do NOT believe in Satan. That's right-do not BELIEVE in Satan. It's hard to worship something when you don't believe in it, right? The Christian religion consists (primarily) of God, Jesus the Christ, and Satan. Paganism focuses on the earth and its deities, which definitely do NOT consist of Satan. There is NO such thing as a Satanist Pagan. So please be careful when pointing fingers, guys. Rather than just say it because that's what everyone else says, RESEARCH it first. I was very surprised when I discovered Pagans aren't Satanic!

So in the end, Halloween is fun for everyone. If you feel threatened by it, you don't have to celebrate it. But if you doubt you should because you think it has Satanic roots, fear not! Because Pagans developed the holiday and Pagans aren't Satanic.

Hope this helps a little. Just trying to clear up some mistruths that I've noticed!



love and light

"I was very surprised when I discovered Pagans aren't Satanic!"

Now there is a catch 22 situation if ever there is one. The very nature of it makes it of Satan. "Nature Goddess indeed!

[Malificent]

Oh gosh blackeyed I'm sorry, I didn't make that clear I didn't mean that YOU specifically were making threats, rather any Christian that says, "You are going to hell". That is a threat, and an offensive one to those who prefer freedom of religion. Sorry about that!!

And you said that you are trying to inform the "lost" that Christianity is wonderful and to accept Jesus as their personal savior etc. etc... Well what if other people see Jesus differently than you? I personally am afraid of the Christian religion. No matter what ANYONE says, I will most likely never be turning back to Christianity. My new question is: would God rather I say I believe in him just so i don't go to hell? If someone doesn't believe in something, they just don't. And sometimes it takes proof to make someone believe. That is why I don't believe. You can't just say, "believe in God and Jesus or burn in hell," because essentially, you are telling me to believe in something as real as the tooth fairy. Sorry; I wish I could believe sometimes, but honestly, I LOVE my life as an atheist.



Love and light

[Pilgrim]

Christmas and TRUTH?

   Have you ever wondered how important truth is to the Christian? The Scriptures have much to say about truth. By doing a word study on truth one will see that God places a high value on truth. By doing a word search on truth my Bible program listed 224 verses alone. Here are some of the things we learn about truth as we study the Scriptures.

1. The Lord Jesus is truth:

   “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth , and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”  John 14:6

2. The Holy Spirit is truth and is called the Spirit of Truth:

   “This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”  1 John 5:6
   
   “[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.”  John 14:17

3. God’s Word is truth:

   “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”   John 17:17

4. God seeks those that will worship Him in spirit and truth. Jesus said that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and truth:

   “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”  John 4:23-24


5.  Our sanctification is through truth (verse above John 17:17):

   “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the  truth.”  John 17:19

6. God’s will is for believers to walk in the truth and to speak truth one to another:

   “But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:”  Eph. 4:15

   “Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.”  Eph. 4:25

   “The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.”  2 John 1:1-4

7. True Christian Love rejoices in the truth:

   “Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;”  1 Cor. 13:6

8. The Lord’s super is to be kept in truth:

   “Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.”  1 Cor. 5:8

   The above verses are only a small portion of what God’s Word has to say concerning truth, yet with just this small sample one can easily see how important truth is to God. Truly God places a high value on truth and so should we if we claim to be His children.
   On the other hand you have Satan and his followers who despise truth and love lying. Below is one of the conversations that the Lord Jesus had with the followers of Satan:

   “Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.”  John 8:44-45

   One might wonder who these wicked children of the devil were? Surly, they must have been the very scum of the earth, those who practiced every vice and evil imaginable to man. Surly, Jesus must of been speaking to those who were like Hitler and Stalin, Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy, Anton Szandor La Vey and Marlin Manson etc. Although people like these are excellent candidates, they are not the type of people the Lord Jesus was speaking to. Believe it or not, Jesus was speaking to the religious leaders of His day. Those who were suppose to be defenders and champions of the truth. Those who were charged with teaching the truth to the children of Israel. The very ones who should have been the first to recognize that Jesus was the Christ their long awaited Messiah. Yet according to Jesus these religious leaders were Satan’s children.
   Stop and think about this for a minute. Satan’s most successful attacks against Jesus came from the religious leaders of His day. From those that held sway over the masses by their religious lies and religious rituals who all the time thought that they were serving the true God of Israel. Those who persuaded Pilot to kill the Lord Jesus Christ. If Satan was so effective in infiltrating Israel’s religious leadership in those days do you think that maybe he might be doing the same with the church today? God’s Word says that he is:

   “For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”   2 Cor. 11:13-15

   Some good questions to ask yourselves are, who are these people today? How can I recognize them? What do they teach? How can I protect myself from their deceptive lies? How do I stand against them seeing that they are in places of leadership? All good questions that need to be answered.
   The Lord Jesus recognized them because they had much in common with their true spiritual father, Satan! Satan is the father of lies, therefore his children will be those who promote lies, not just any lie but religious lies. Lies about salvation, lies about God, lies about the Lord Jesus, lies about religion, lies on how to worship and please God. The lies that Satan uses to deceive Christians are sugar coated with the truth, lies that are pleasant to the taste and appealing to human reasoning. Satan knows that in order to get Christians off the path of righteousness he must be clever in his lies and make them appear as good and righteous, if he has to sprinkle his lies with truth so that Christians will eat of his fruit he will do it. Satan will use as much truth as necessary just so long as he can get Christians to eat his spiritual poison. He knows it is the poison in his mix that really counts and he doesn’t care how much healthy spiritual food one has to eat just as long as they eat the poison with it. We need to remember that Satan is not out to help us in our walk with God, but to kill, steal and destroy.
Continued

[Pilgrim]

continued
   Makers of rat poison do the same. They take food that appeals to the taste of rats, food that under different circumstances would make rats healthy and strong. They take this food and lace it with a little bit of poison, not much, just enough to kill the rats who eat of it. The makers of rat poison use the healthy good tasting food to lure rats into eating the poison that is laced in it. It’s a very clever technique that gets very good results.
   Satan gets very good results with this technique also. One of the best religious lies that Satan and his helpers use today is Christmas. Many will be shocked at this statement, saying “Christmas! Dear brother, have you gone mad!” No! I haven’t gone mad. If Christmas is of God it surly would past the test of truth which it does not. Christmas involves worship and Jesus said that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. Let’s take a close look at Christmas and see if it can hold up to the test of truth.
   The term “Christmas” itself is an unholy mixture and an abomination before God when used in reference to the real Lord Jesus Christ. Here we plainly see Satan’s cleverness, he takes the term “Christ” which is holy and good and combines it with the term “mass” which is an unholy religious lie. Satan mixes the holy with the unholy knowing that  it will be harder for the non-discerning Christian to reject. The Catholic mass is a denial of the Scriptures. The Word of God teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered one time for sins and then sat down at the right hand of God.

   “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”  Heb.9:24-26

   “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”  Heb. 10:10-14

   The Catholic Church teaches that the mass is a continuation of Christ sacrifice for sins. They claim that the wafer is turned into the literal body of the Lord Jesus and that the wine is literally turned into the blood of Christ Jesus. They call this ritual “Transubstantiation”.  Therefore according to Catholic doctrine The Lord Jesus Christ is offered as a sacrifice over and over every time mass is held. God’s Word is crystal clear in that Jesus suffered only one time in history for the sins of the world. Jesus Himself cried out while on the cross “It is finished”, yet the Catholic Church claims that it is not finished and that the Lord’s sacrifice continues with each and every mass.
   The true Christ and the mass are opposed to each other. Christ is truth, the mass, a religious lie, they can't be mixed. Christ affirms the Scriptures and the mass denies them. If Christians who use the term "Merry Christmas" knew what they were really saying I doubt they would continue using the term. After all what is merry about the mass of Christ, it is a religious lie of the worst kind? It is a damnable heresy. What a shameful contradiction it is for true believers to wish someone a "Merry Christmas" when in truth the mass is responsible for sending souls to hell. What's so "Merry" about that? I can understand Satan wishing someone a "Merry Christmas", but I can't understand Christians doing the same! I wonder how many souls are
in hell right now, wailing and gnashing their teeth, because they believed the lie of the Catholic mass instead of the true gospel of salvation? When Christmas is used in reference to the Lord Jesus it is a lying contradiction in and of itself? I wonder how many Christians realize that they are using God's name in vain and profaning what is holy by using the term “Christmas in such a way?
   God commands us to put away lying and to speak truth one to another (Eph. 4:25) How can one wish someone a “Merry Christmas” without violating this clear command of God? The christ of the mass is a false christ, the gospel of the mass is a false gospel and God commands us to put these lies away and speak truth one to another. I have heard the excuse “well that’s not what Christmas means to me, and when I wish someone a “Merry Christmas” I don’t mean the mass of Christ”. Dear friend, with all due respect, it doesn’t matter what it means to you, it matters what its true meaning is. We do not have the right to change the definitions of words and use them any way we like. Words are specific in there meanings and they have to be in order to properly communicate to others. How about your Catholic friends? When you wish them a “Merry Christmas” are they going to know what you mean or are they going to be delighted that you are partaking in their religious lie? If you wish someone like me a “Merry Christmas” most likely you will hear in return that I do not partake of Catholic lies.   Another lie so often heard at Christmas is “He’s the reason for the season”. It’s a catchy phrase used by those that want to put Christ back into Christmas. The problem these people have is that the true Christ was never in Christmas to begin with. The christ that is in Christmas was never the true Christ but the false christ of the Roman Catholic Church. The true “reason for the season” is the Catholic Church not the Lord Jesus. The Roman Catholic Church is “the reason for the season”. They are the ones who invented Christmas by stealing it from the pagans and they are the ones who gave it to the professing church. Just about any encyclopedia will bare this out. Even those that defend Christmas as a Christian holiday admit this much.    

John 4:19 “The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.  20  Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.  21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.  22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.  23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.  24  God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”

Here is a case were the Lord Jesus gently rebukes a Samaritan woman over worship according to mans corrupt ways. Barnes notes on the New Testament has this to say about the above passage.

“22. (Ye worship ye know not what.) This probably refers to the comparative ignorance and corruption of the Samaritan worship. Though they received the five books of Moses, yet they rejected the prophets, and of course all that the prophets had said respecting the true God. Originally, also, they had joined the worship of idols to that of the true God. See 2 Kings xvii 26-34. They had moreover, no authority for building their temple and conducting public worship by sacrifices there. On all these accounts they were acting in an unauthorized manner. They were not worshiping the true God, nor offering the worship which He had commanded or would approve.

I find some amazing similarities between this and Christmass. Most who partake in Christmass are like the woman of Samaria whom Jesus said “Ye worship ye know not what”. Religious man took a pagan holiday that was in existence hundreds of years before Christ and adopted if for their own. They covered this pagan holiday with a veneer of Christianity and tried to force the true Christ into it by renaming pagan gods with the true God. Just like the Samaritans who had no authority to create their own form of worship, religious man does the same with Christmass. How can one even pretend to offer God true worship after the manner and traditions the pagans invented to worship their gods?  “Originally, also, they had joined the worship of idols to that of the true God.” This is the very same abomination that takes place in Christmass. Jesus told the woman that God is Spirit and that He must be worshiped in Spirit and truth. Christmass fails the test of truth from its very foundation on up. One can claim they are worshiping God all they want with their Christmass traditions but if it is not according to truth God will not accept it.

Pilgrim

[Tibby]

I don’t even know where the begin...

[Pilgrim]

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Convictions or Conveniences?”

“Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.” (1 Corinthians 16:13)

        Years ago, a friend and I owned a small business. At the time we had one employee. We all attended the same small gospel assembly. Our employee was just getting started in public preaching. I can remember one of his first sermons, it was on the subject of faith. In his attempt to explain what it meant to walk by faith he used the example of owning life insurance. He explained that having life insurance was not walking in faith and showed a lack of trust in the Lord. He spoke about this topic with great conviction and passion.
        A few weeks later my business partner and I were approached by our insurance agent, who told us of a great deal on life insurance that was being offered on a limited-time-only basis. My partner and I decided to take the offer and purchase the life insurance. We talked about offering this life insurance policy at the company’s expense to our employee, but remembered the message he preached about life insurance just a few weeks earlier. We both thought that he would turn down the offer without a second thought, based upon his publicly known “convictions.”
        However, to our surprise he didn’t even hesitate to take us up on the offer. When we asked him about his publicly known “convictions” against having life insurance, he said that he had done a lot of thinking on the matter lately and had changed his views. How convenient for him to simply change his views at the very time he was being offered “free life insurance!” Apparently, and to his own shame, this man’s convictions were very flexible and subject to change when it suited his own interest.
        Sadly, we often come across men like this whose convictions are really nothing more than conveniences. Under the right pressures or circumstances you will find out that most men really don’t have convictions, and what they passionately claim are strong convictions are nothing more than conveniences. I have heard that in other countries some Christians under the pains of torture and death have been told to renounce the Lord Jesus Christ. Some have even saved their lives by renouncing the Lord Jesus, or so they think!

        “And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father's, and of the holy angels.”   (Luke 9:22-26)

        Yet, many others over the ages have lost their lives under such circumstances, only to find them according to the above Scripture. A man once told me, “you never know what’s in a man until he’s squeezed!” How true that statement is. It’s easy to boldly proclaim one’s “convictions” when they haven’t been put to the test. But, test those same “convictions” by trials of persecution, or by temptations of pleasure and personal gain, and one will quickly find out what one is made of, convictions or conveniences.
        When the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians saying, “Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong” (1 Cor. 16:13), he basically was telling them to be men of true convictions and to stand firm without wavering in those convictions no matter the persecution or temptation. In those days it was harder to be a man of convictions; one’s faith was constantly being tested by trial, temptation, or both. Christians were being hunted down and persecuted for what they believed. Unlike today, the term “Christian” had true meaning and purpose. If one were to be called Christian in those days it meant that he had forsaken all other so-called gods and the pagan culture associated with them, to follow the one and true God, the Lord Jesus Christ.
        In today’s pluralistic mindset, you can call yourself a Christian and still embrace the pagan gods of old. In many of today’s so-called evangelical churches occult activities run rampant in such things as prayer visualizing techniques, prayer labyrinthian, yoga, 12 step programs, psychology, partaking in pagan holidays such as Halloween, Christmas and Easter, just to name a few. To be involved in these things ignorantly is one thing, but to continue in them after you have received the truth about them is quite another. Paul received the Lord’s mercy for his great sin of persecuting the church because he did it in ignorance (1 Tim. 1:12-17). Can you imagine what would have happened to Paul had he continued persecuting the church after the Lord Jesus revealed to him that he was really persecuting the very God he claimed to serve?
        Today’s church is suffering greatly from a lack of men of true conviction who are ready to suffer for what they believe, men who are true men, men who are sound in the faith. Today’s church is designed to meet one’s comfort level rather than bring spiritual health (“sound doctrine” means literally “healthy doctrine”). The emphasis is on making people feel comfortable, therefore you dare not preach to them the whole counsel of God, but only the things that will make them feel good about themselves. Preaching against sin and repentance is shelved because they make one feel uncomfortable and folks will likely leave for a more comfortable environment that will tolerate their laxity and sin, or worse yet, partake in it. I was shocked driving home from work one October day when I saw a sign in a church parking lot saying, “Kids come here tonight for your Halloween treats.” Halloween treats!  What are so-called Christians doing partaking in pagan holidays? Sadly, many churches partake of this wicked holiday to a much greater degree by holding their own haunted houses and Halloween parties. One must ask whose side these so-called Christians are on anyway? With their mouth they profess the Lord, but in their activities they deny Him (Titus 1:16)
        What blasphemy it is for those claiming to be Christians to partake in the celebrations and customs that belong to the devil. Where are the “true men of conviction” in the church today? Why are they not opposing such wickedness? Do they think that God has said in vain, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]” (Eph. 5:11) or that He really didn’t mean it in regards to Halloween, or any of the other holidays that honor Satan, such as Christmas and Easter? I can hear the excuses of those without true convictions already saying, “We partake of these holidays for the children”, "everybody else is doing it,” “I have Christian liberty to partake in these events,” “it doesn’t mean the same things to me as it does the pagans,” “my family won’t understand if I take a stand against these things,” “my wife feels strongly about celebrating Christmas, it’s a big tradition in her family,” and you can go on and on. But God is not looking for excuses; He’s looking for men who will be men and that will stand firm upon His Word without compromise, not those without convictions that find it convenient for their own personal gain to ignore and disobey His Word.
        Dear friend, is your spiritual life one of strong convictions, or of weak compromise and conveniences? It takes a real man or woman to stand against the currents of this world. It’s much easier to go with the flow of this world and do as the world does than it is to stand against it. If you chose to be a man or woman of conviction, God says you will suffer persecution (2 Tim. 3:12). Unfortunately, most of the persecution will come from those that claim to be Christians who are so worldly that they even make the pagans blush.

        “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will  serve  the LORD.” (Josh 24:15)

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[Willowbirch]

Thank you, Pilgrim! Although I do not agree on every point in your articles, I appreciate your devotion and wisdom. You are a seeker and teacher of truth.

[Tibby]

   How Is getting insurance showing you have no faith? Isn’t is possible that God was the one who gave you this one time only deal? Faith doesn’t protect you from getting harmed. The faith is that God will take care of you when bad things happen. And he doesn’t NEED lights and fireworks and smoke and magic to get you out of trouble. He can do things like give you shocking high tax return, or get you a great deal on insurance, for just 2 examples.

   Let me break it down for you. It’s like this, you can’t run away from everything the Pagans did. Pagans breathed, drank water, and ate. You know, Christmas is rooted in Paganism, so is Halloween. You know what else is rooted in Paganism? Modern English. The Characters we use, Pagans made them. Polytheistic, idol worshiping, human sacrificing Pagans. And then the Bisexual Heathen’s of the Greek culture took them and formed them into roughly the same letters we see today, and then the Romans, and then the Pagans of Gaul and Great Briton. And the Modern English language, a Pagan language, with countless additions from other Pagan languages. It is a synergism of countless Pagans Languages.
   Hey, Satan uses something that appeals to us (like communication) and lures us into using it. Our speech is laced with Paganism. Oh, we are raised with this language, like we are raised with Christmas. No one tells us the evil, Pagan roots of the spoken and written language, do they? The church has lied to us. So, we must let such things cause us to stumble. We have to stop speaking and writing the English Language. Not to convenient, is it?
   In today’s pluralistic mindset, you can call yourself a Christian and still embrace the pagan languages of old. In many of today’s so-called evangelical churches Non-Christian activities run rampant in such things as bibles written with the characters of Pagans, and sermons in English. To speak this language ignorantly is one thing, but to continue in using it after you have received the truth about it is quite another. Paul received the Lord’s mercy for his great sin of persecuting the church because he did it in ignorance (1 Tim. 1:12-17).Can you imagine what would have happened to Paul had he continued persecuting the church after the Lord Jesus revealed to him that he was really persecuting the very God he claimed to serve?*
        What blasphemy it is for those claiming to be Christians to use a language that belongs to the devil. Where are the “true men of conviction” in the church today? Why are they not opposing such wickedness? Do they think that God has said in vain, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]” (Eph. 5:11) or that he really didn’t mean it in regards to speaking a language made by Pagans or writing is with the characters made by the Bisexual, womanizing drunkards of Ancient Greece? I can hear the excuses of those without true convictions already saying, “But how will we talk to each other”, "everybody else is doing it,” “I have Christian liberty to speak in any chosen language,” “it doesn’t mean the same things to me as it does the pagans,” “my family won’t understand me if I start speaking Hebrew,” “my wife feels strongly about speaking English, she flunked out of French in High School,” and you can go on and on. But God is not looking for excuses; He’s looking for men who will be men and that will stand firm upon His Word without compromise, not those without convictions that find it convenient for their own personal gain to ignore and disobey His Word.
   Unless not using English is to inconvenient. Then I’ve sure God will understand if you Compromise. Listen very carefully, and try not to miss the point this time. Satan can not take anything for his own. The only way he gets things is if we give it to him. That includes the language we speak and the days we exchange presents and give candy to children. Satan can no more own a day then you can own the wind. You can say “I just turned the fan on, I control the wind” and believe it all you want, but the wind, the air, the rocks, the trees, the land, the days, the nights, and the language all belongs to God.






*Paul received forgiveness for his sins because he asked God to forgive him, because Jesus died on the Cross for his sins. Pre-mutated sin is a whole other issue.
**I’m going to pretend like I didn’t read the distorted views of Catholicism in these well-written, but poorly thought out posts. Lets try and keep this thread on the topic of Holidays.  

[Pilgrim]

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Christ-mass”

     “Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus  saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.  For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”     Jeremiah 10:1-4


        It may come as a surprise to many that the origin of Christmas actually predates the birth of Jesus Christ by hundreds of years.  Perhaps it comes as an even greater surprise that the origin of Christmas is rooted in heathen religions and beliefs, and not the Word of God.  This is easily verified with just a little research, research that amazingly few are willing to do. Personally I have examined many encyclopedias, newspaper articles, the internet, and pagan as well as Christian sources.  All the resources that I have studied trace the origin of Christmas back to heathen religions and beliefs well before the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

        Did you realize that no one knows on what day the Lord Jesus was born.  You can search the Bible from cover to cover and you will not find from its pages what day the Lord Jesus was born.  In fact the Bible tells us that the shepherds were keeping watch over their flock by night at the time the Lord Jesus was born indicating mild weather, certainly not the dead of winter (Luke 2:6-8).  It was the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century A.D. who chose December 25 as the day to celebrate the birth of Christ.  It chose December 25 because it was the time that the heathen were celebrating Natalis Solis Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun.  Instead of condemning the idolatrous festivities and practices of the heathen, the Church of Rome absorbed them and “Christianized” them.  Instead of celebrating the birth of the god’s of the heathen’s they now would celebrate the birth of Jesus.  Instead of SUN worship they now would have SON worship.  The Roman Catholic Church called December 25 “Christmas” which means, “the Mass of Christ”. Almost all of the heathens customs and forms of celebrating were retained by the Church and given different meanings (see The Two Babylons, by Hislop).  Thus the Roman Church allowed the heathen to continue their idolatrous ways under the guise of celebrating Christ’s birthday with the Church of Rome’s blessings.

        Our opening text clearly exhorts, “Learn not the way of the heathen”. What is the way of the heathen here? They take a tree from the forest, they deck it with gold and silver, and they fasten so it doesn’t move. Sounds very much like the Christmas tree wouldn’t you agree? It amazes me that people calling themselves  Christians take part in this without any indication from the Scriptures that it was preformed at Christ birth or afterwards. The Gospels, Acts, the Epistles and Revelation give neither example nor teaching on which to found such a celebration. Does no one wonder where, then, such celebrations came from? Why, unbelievers do the same thing with no regard to Christ at all! How can Christians supposedly be worshiping Christ through this, while at the same time unbelievers are celebrating with no reverence to HIM at all? You must ask yourself in the light of our Scripture, who’s right and who’s wrong? After all what does a pine tree have to do with Christ birth?  Nowhere in the Scriptures do we read of God’s people embracing the way of the heathen with God’s blessing. Whenever God’s people adopt the ways of the heathen it eventually brings God’s judgment upon them. In the book of Colossians we read the following warning.

     “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”  Colossians 2:8

        Friends, one of Satan’s greatest tools of deceptions is his ability to transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:13-15).  It is by this means that he seeks to deceive the Christian.  Christmas is apparently one of his greatest deceptions ever, since it is so widely accepted and defended, and people seem to be held captive by it in spite of its lack of Biblical support.  This is a strange phenomenon! Surely if Christmas was of God it would easily stand the test of Scripture, but it does not.  With just a little research an unbiased person who is a seeker of truth would clearly see that Christmas is a lie based upon “the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”  This is abundantly clear when one learns that Christmas and almost all of its trimmings predate the birth of Christ by hundreds of years.  We would do well to heed the warning of Colossians 2:8 and BEWARE least we become SPOILED by the vain deceit of Christmas.

        John 4:24 says “God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”  How can we even pretended to honor and worship God in participating in Christmas when it is based in vain deceit rather than truth?  John 4:24 says that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. There is no room for compromise here, no matter how well meaning or sincere one may be in their participation in Christmas.  Where is the Biblical doctrine of Christmas celebrating? There is none! Christmas fails the test of Scripture.

        Many professing Christians have already been spoiled by the vain deceit of Christmas. This is evidenced by the fact that they refuse to allow God’s Word to judge their participation in the idolatrous practices of Christmas.  On this subject, apparently, the Bible does not matter. It appears that their minds are made up and they don’t want to be confused by the facts. To them Christmas is like a sacred cow, not to be touched or criticized by anyone, even the Lord!  How sad and grieved the Lord must be over this. Not once in the Scriptures do we find the Lord reflecting on HIS birth. Instead we find HIM consistently pointing to the future to the salvation that He would secure for human beings by dying on the cross as the perfect Substitute. No, we don’t find a commandment to remember HIS birth but we do find the commandment to remember HIS death (1Cor.11:24-26).  How much better we would be if we would heed the will of God that we find in the book of Romans.

     “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and  perfect, will of God.”    Romans 12:1-2

         It is God’s will and command that we do not conform to this world.  Christmas is “after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ”, and therefore we should obey the Scriptures and not conform to the world’s customs.  You see, when one participates in Christmas he is doing just the opposite of what God commands in this verse.  Instead of conforming to this world God wants us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  This happens as we study the scriptures and learn from them how to live our lives in a way that pleases God.  God wants us to be able to prove what His GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT will is.  We should do this so that we can apply God’s will to our lives and live in a way that is more pleasing to Him, because we love Him who first loved us.

        Dear friend my purpose in writing these words is not to cause trouble with you.  I know first hand how controversial this subject is with those that have a strong traditional and emotional attachment to the practices of Christmas, especially those who regard Christmas as an untouchable matter, like a sacred cow.  I write knowing that there are those that want to honor God in all their ways and are not aware of the deceptions of Christmas.  I pray that God will use these words to enlighten them to the dangers of Christmas and move them to a closer walk with God.  Christianity is about following Christ (Luke 9:23), and to do that the Lord said one must “deny self, and take up his cross...” not his Christmas tree!

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[Tibby]

1. We know.

2. We don’t care.

3 The Catholic Church didn’t begin Christmas to allowed the heathen to continue their idolatrous ways under the guise of celebrating Christ’s birthday with the Church of Rome’s blessings. It is just the opposite. The heathens where going to celebrate there holidays no matter what, so the Church Declared it a Church holiday, so they would have to come to church on those day, to deter them from celebrating the Holiday.  

4. You are still speaking English and using these Characters, and you have yet to address why this compromise is ok and others aren’t. So as far as I’m concerned, you are not following what you rant, and that negates your argument about not following the ways of the heathen.

[Pilgrim]

Quote from Tibby,

“4. You are still speaking English and using these Characters, and you have yet to address why this compromise is ok and others aren’t. So as far as I’m concerned, you are not following what you rant, and that negates your argument about not following the ways of the heathen.”

Your reasoning is seriously flawed. I have heard silly illogical statements like yours above many times. They seem to always come from those who want to muddle the truth so they can justify having fellowship with darkness. The attitude is “My mind is already made up, please don’t confuse me with the facts.”

Your flawed reasoning goes something like this.

Pagans breath air and Christians breath the same air, therefore it is ok to celebrate pagan holidays.

Pagans speak languages and Christians speak languages, therefore it is ok to celebrate pagan holidays.

Sadly, many people in today’s world are so simple minded that they accept this flawed thinking and go about excusing abominable customs and traditions of man thinking all the time that somehow God will be pleased with their wicked ways.

Because Christians and pagans breath air doesn’t mean I can do anything the pagans do. When it comes to worship and truth God is very clear on how one must worship Him. I cannot take the things of Satan and baptizes them in Christian terminology and give new meanings to traditions and customs then offer them to God. This would be abominable and a great offense to a Holy God. Why in the World would one even think for a moment that God would want something that was dedicate to Satan renamed and offered to Him.

Because pagans breath air doesn’t make it wrong for Christians to breath air. Yet, if I breathed air the same way, and for the same purpose, that pagans do in their religion and worship then it would be wrong for me to imitate them. Some pagans use specific breathing techniques for the purpose of attaining an altered state of consciousness or what I would call a demonic trance.  The same is true of the days of the week, just because they are named after pagan gods doesn’t make it wrong to use them to identify each day of the week. Yet, if I would use the religious customs and practices of these pagans to their gods and incorporate them in the worship of the true God like what is done at Christmas then it would be wrong and abominable before God.

Pilgrim

[Tibby]

You thing twisting my words with inductive logic is going to do anything? Oh wow, logic that conflicts, BIG shocker. You still have not answered my question.

The air example is an overdone example. It is just a little thing I like to say when people behave as you do. It gets there attention. It is meant to be a weak joke to lighten the mood so people don’t start getting angry, which his often the case in these kinds of debates. It takes a lot of guts of not get a joke, and they say those who do are "simple minded."

You focused way to much on this joke and not to much on the issue of the language. Why is that? I think you CAN’T answer it. Just admit it. There IS no answer by your logic. You see, your reasoning goes something like this:

Christmas was created by Pagans, so we cannot celebrate Christmas

So, by your logic, it is a safe to say that:

English was created by Pagans, so we cannot speak or write English

Tell me how this is flawed? The English language question is one I think is reasonable. Christmas came from Pagans, so did the English Language. The Characters we type with are also a pagan creation. God made air, but Pagans where the first to write ABCDEFG and they where the first to party on Christmas day.

So, please, explain to me how speaking English and celebrating Christmas are any different. Both are creations of evil, sinful cultures.

[Romans8_1]

Sorry to hit and run, but I'm not looking to join another thread.  I just wanted to point out something for consideration.  If it works for you, then great.

Isn't there something in the NT about eating meat sacrificed to idols or something.  It says (if I remember correctly), that it's really ok, because we're not under law.  As long as we are not concentrating in the idol part, but are just eating then we're ok (also as long as we are not being a stumbling block to our brother).

What I get from this, is that motive can play a big role.  We cannot go around all the time looking in our culture at who makes "what" and what was the original 'intent' on something in particular.  I frankly don't have the time, and don't care.  If God convicts me to stop doing something ... I stop.  and Vice-versa.  I celebrate the birth of Christ.  I know full well how it started ... and I don't care.  It doesn't mean that to me.  Yes, I have a tree and we decorate it as a family.  My tree holds no identification of Christ.  I recognize that.  We pass out presents and I really don't identify it with the 3 wise men.  There are several things I do, because it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.  I enjoy the special time with my family.  But, I hold that day very reverently.  I am absolutely aware that Christ was not born on this day.  I don't care.  This is simply the day I have set apart to celebrate His birth.  Yes, I celebrate it.  It was a miracle.  It was my personal Savior taking on the body of man and I am eternally gratefull.  It is simply a day I have set aside to remember what He had to give up to become man and for me to thank Him for doing this to me.  Yeah, I do a lot of other stuff on the side, but I know full well what this day represents.

Was it a pagan holiday?  I don't care.  Are their pagan symbols in this holiday?  I don't care.  It does not mean that to me.  I see Christ.  My eyes are on Him.  I celebrate Him everyday of my life.  This just happens to be one where I throw a physical celebration in a different format.  I'm ok with it.

I have prayed about this, and I do not feel convicted to stop it.  If you feel convicted, then you should stop.  If you feel convicted to tell others, then you should.  But you should fully recognize the not everyone is being convicted to stop celebrating Christmas and this does not mean that we are not Christians.  

Let's not break fellowship over this and recognize that we are at different places in our walk.  

Grace and Peace and Love to you.

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

All seven of our current names for days of the week are each dedicated to a different pagan god. If one checks into why the days are called Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, you will find the pagan roots of the day and the god or goddess that day is dedicated to. However, if a Christian gets up each morning and worships Almighty God instead, it's a moot issue. Some might be convicted to change the name of the day because of the known links to the devil, and I would say that's fine if they are convicted to do so.

Pilgrim, I don't make light of your message about Christmas, but I celebrate Jesus every day. I celebrate Jesus on all seven days of the week, not the pagan gods they were named for. I choose not to give the devil recognition or glory on a single one of the 365 days each year. All 365 days are simply another day the Almighty God has made, and all will be done to HIS GLORY in worship of HIM. There is no day or hour that belongs to the devil. If there was such a day or hour, I would worship Almighty God on that day and hour.

As far as I'm concerned Mon-Sun, Christmas, Easter, and all other days belong to Christ, and I worship Christ on those days. If the devil feels that he owns any of those days, I doubt he would appreciate what many Christians do on those days. I feel convicted to worship Christ on those days and will continue to do so. I don't think the name of the day makes a difference, rather what you do with that day. With Christmas, the GIFTS are blessings from God, and the day is dedicated to HIM.

Love In Christ,
Tom