Terrible Question.

[Mr. 5020]

Christians with homosexuality on there minds?  i wonder if the the homosexuals spend as much time thinking and tallking about christians?  


If i wrote a book   " what GOD has done for me" i doubt it would sell  much in the  christian book stores. . .

If i wrote a book    " the  sexy dirty sins of my life"  but i could sell a  bunch  in the  christian book stores.

Unfortunately, probably true.

[ollie]

Hm, well, I'm thinking we might be a little off topic here.

You are right. Previous posts gone.

Good to see you back, Ollie.

Thank you.

5020 is right.  Sinning leaves you open to Satan's attacks.

Sinning is giving in to Satan. An action or thought completed. The attack is first, then the battle, then either victory or defeat. The victory is through Christ, the defeat through not Christ.

 

You no longer have that protective covering, grebe.

The attacks come from Satan but God never allows more temptation to His than what they can handle. The protection come from being in adherence to God's will and then He will keep you safe through Jesus Christ.

Let's see, but on the question of sinning, "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.  And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments." I John 2:1-3

The rest of that chapter might be good here to read too.

And here it is:

John 2:4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 5.  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 7.  Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
 8.  Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 9.  He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
 10.  He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
 11.  But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
 12.  I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
 13.  I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
 14.  I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
 15. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
 16.  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 17.  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
 18.  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 19.  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
 20.  But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
 21.  I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
 22.  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 23.  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
 24.  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
 25.  And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
 26.  These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
 27.  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 28.  And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
 29.  If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.


Ollie

[Mr. 5020]

Sinning is giving in to Satan. An action or thought completed. The attack is first, then the battle, then either victory or defeat. The victory is through Christ, the defeat through not Christ.

James 1:13-15 says that we sin because we are enticed by our own desires, not by Satan.

The attacks come from Satan but God never allows more temptation to His than what they can handle. The protection come from being in adherence to God's will and then He will keep you safe through Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I understand the point you were making here, Ollie.  Would you explain a little for me?

[ollie]

Ollie--Sinning is giving in to Satan. An action or thought completed. The attack is first, then the battle, then either victory or defeat. The victory is through Christ, the defeat through not Christ.

5020--James 1:13-15 says that we sin because we are enticed by our own desires, not by Satan.

 1 John 3:8.  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Ollie--The attacks come from Satan but God never allows more temptation to His than what they can handle. The protection come from being in adherence to God's will and then He will keep you safe through Jesus Christ.

5020--I'm not sure I understand the point you were making here, Ollie.  Would you explain a little for me?

1 Corinthians 10:13.  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hebrews 2:17.  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
 18.  For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


 James 1:12.  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
 13.  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 14.  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
 15.  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
 16.  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
 17.  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
 18.  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 19.  Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
 20.  For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
 21.  Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
 22.  But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
 23.  For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
 24.  For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
 25.  But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

[Mr. 5020]

1 John 3:8.  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Good point, but I was not saying that you would not be of the devil.  I was stating that the devil is not the reason for sinning.

Quote:
5020--I'm not sure I understand the point you were making here, Ollie.  Would you explain a little for me?

 
1 Corinthians 10:13.  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hebrews 2:17.  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18.  For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


James 1:12.  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13.  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14.  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15.  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16.  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17.  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18.  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19.  Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20.  For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21.  Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22.  But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23.  For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24.  For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25.  But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

I understood what you said, and the Bible verses therein.  I didn't get your point!

[Reba]

BEWARE  THE POST BELOW IS 100% CUT AND PASTE
    READ AT YOUR OWN RISK  



Because we live in an age of tolerance where almost anything goes, openly questioning or criticizing other people's belief systems can quickly get you labeled as judgmental, narrow-minded, bigoted, hateful, and even ignorant. With regard to Christianity, Matthew 7:1 is often quoted (or should I say "misquoted") as discouraging Christians from putting other religious teachings and practices to the test: "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

This interpretation of Scripture, however, is simply mistaken. The Bible clearly speaks out not against passing judgment in general, but against rendering inaccurate and unfair judgments (John 7:24). In 1 Corinthians 2:15 Paul tells us that Christians are called to make "judgments about all things." Our judgment, though, should not be based on what God has not revealed; but rather, on what He has revealed (v. 13).

 
God's revealed Word, the Bible, tells us that Jesus Christ is the only way we can possibly reach God and that there's no alternate route (Acts 4:12). It stands to reason, therefore, that other beliefs offering alleged alternate pathways to God only lead to dead-ends. And if we as Christians really want to follow our Lord's teaching to love our neighbors, we can't escape our responsibility to warn them about spiritually destructive roads paved by non-Christian belief systems (Prov. 14:12). True love and compassion should move believers to sound warning cries, even in the face of opposition, to avert countless lives from heading toward eternal separation from God.

Let's realize that when we call teachings into question, it's only because we're concerned about the eternal destinies of people. Let's also keep in mind that Scripture doesn't command us to simply rail against false teachings; rather, it encourages us to offer biblical reasons with gentleness and respect (1 Pet. 3:15). Always remember that when it comes to personal relationships, tolerance is a virtue; but when it comes to truth, tolerance is a travesty.

 Hank Hanegraaff

[Symphony]

This thread began last Aug 15:

In the Time-Life series on WWII published in the early 1980s, there are photographs at the beginning of one volume showing the Nazi occupation of Denmark, which happened rapidly(overnight, I believe).  One full page photo shows a German soldier, on a city street, accosting and interrogating a young woman in a leapard skin coat clutching her purse, with a scared ten year old boy looking up at the soldier,  standing under her arm.  They both are obviously in shock, a very upsetting interruption to what probably was a routine walk to the store.

An accompanying caption mentions one newspaper publisher who dared to publish contradictory material about the Nazis; it says that when they returned him to the village he refused to speak about what they had done to him.

The Nazis started out originally as "brown shirts", years before--no weapons.  Just uniforms, social clubs, indoctrination, camps, outings--even good works.

When we as Christians, in the public market places, see two men(or two women) holding hands, or kissing, etc., or an otherwise obvious, open display, should we challenge??

Should we ask them first if they are homosexuals, and then tell them what they are doing is wrong?

Or, as perhaps there in Denmark,  should we wait until they are everywhere, and they have control of everything--the courts, the schools, the marketplace?

When there is an open display in the local grocery, for instance, do we confront??

Is the grocer then liable to which??  Will you be allowed in the store again, if you are viewed as causing an altercation??

Will the grocer ask you to leave?  Or will he ask the gays to leave??

If it's a small town, will you be allowed in other grocery stores, if word gets around?  Will you be able to eat?

If you don't challenge, will you be "complicit", allowing then later on the exact same scenario to occur as happened there in Denmark some 65 years ago?  If you wait until they are everywhere, will you dare to speak out then?  Would that woman have dared to say anything?--the soldier is the one with the guns, the authority, the power.
_____________________________


This is  now six months later.  Looking back, perhaps the above is reactionary, or knee-jerk.

To my thinking though, it seems even more critical that when it presents itself in my domain--that is, where I live and work, I will have to challenge.  That will mean--ultimately, compromising those in my charge, those responsibilities--in effect, putting any in  my own "circle", at risk.  

Maybe the six months has been good, but it's surprising to me that it has taken me this long just to *start* to get used to the idea, much less actually be getting used to it.

But I'm thinking it might be possible to arrange my own circumstances, not so much in a way to preserve them--which of course is the very human tendency, but perhaps to just rearrange them so that risks are reduced, and so that losses you sustain--in terms of either criminal liability, or civil liability(lawsuits), will only make sense with our general "higher calling", as Christians, to hold nothing dear to our hearts(save the Lord Jesus...).

I'm having difficulty imagining that I can in anyway ignore public homosexuality, where I live and work, without saying something.  And I realize now, that the attorneys, the civil attorneys, if not the criminal(prosecuting)ones, will likely be attracted like flies.

Pray that I will do this with love, and glory to the Lord Jesus...

In Jesus' Name

[Symphony]

Likely it will be charges of "discrimination".

Listening to state politicians, they, or some of them, are sounding particularly adamant, about not "discriminating"(yet strangely, they exercise the freedom to "discriminate" in their choice of their "partner", over and against all other "partners" in the world...).

Even the conservatives, so-called, are careful to qualify their statements, not meaning to "discriminate".

It's like trying not to offend the Brownshirts of 1930s Germany.

OH, we mustn't offend them.  Oh, we mustn't offend them.


And then, what do you have?  You have Nazis.

And then, you don't dare offend them.

"Offer yourselves up, a living sacrifice..."

[JudgeNot]

Symph,
Having not joined C-Unite until the end of ’03, this is the first I’ve seen of this thread.  I think it was a good subject six months ago, and I think it is still a good subject, and perhaps even more “in the news” today, in light of Massachusetts and San Francisco’s “First Homosexual Marriage License” (just yesterday).  

Yes, we are on the verge of being fined, or even jailed!, for speaking out against a sinful act.  (It is already so in Canada and if (when) the UN takes over it will be world law written into the new one-world religion – they will call it a heresy.)  And – it doesn’t matter how many times we speak truth and say we are speaking against the sin, not the sinner.  For the radical homosexual (those who wish to shove their lifestyle down our throats) their complete identity is their sexuality, not their personality.  When their identity is a sexual one rather than a personality (personally being one with Christ) they are abhorrent to God (in my opinion).

Something I posted in another thread on another day – from a Christian Pastor who lived through Hitler’s atrocities:

When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church — and there was nobody left to be concerned.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

We should NOT forget this lesson.  It is already evident that this time ‘they’ are coming for Christians FIRST.   Openly proclaiming Christ’s message may be as important now as it was in AD 34.

Yours in Him,
JN

[cris]

Unfortunately, problems need to be nipped in the bud.  I'm not really sure just how much any of us can do.  These people know right from wrong but they choose to justify their wrongdoing.  I think (by now) the majority know the bible view.  Look at the one church (E) who's accepted the openly gay pastor!   They've changed the interpretation of the bible in ref. to what it has to say about homosexuality.  I read their website a little over a year ago and was just flabbergasted.  If I can find it again, and anyone wants to read it, let me know and I'll post the address.  It was quite interesting to say the least.

Don't know if any of you know but over 50 years ago adultery was considered a punishable crime.  Today it's a crime or "unhealthy" NOT to fornicate.  Can you imagine living in the 1800's and being able to see into the future?  What will the year 2100 bring? A bit frightening to think about it.  Sometimes I think if the book of Revelation warned us about these things, I'm not sure there's too much we can do.  PLEASE don't berate me on this one because I'm not saying we should do nothing --  which brings to mind another good subject  --  MARTYRS, which, I think I'll start a new post on.

God help us, guide and direct us.  Show us what you would have us do in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Symphony]

Thank you, JudgeNot.  I think i've heard of Niemoller--seen his picture, I believe.


Yes, Chris,  I see what you mean.  


We need to be walking in the Spirit at all times--to know when to "fold'm, and when to hold'm".  

[Early57]

The question was asked and then it has gotten off track.

Let me give it a shot.

Jesus was walking through town and saw Merchants all around the city.  He never condemns them; I would be more inclined to think that Jesus bought stuff from them from time to time for his personal needs.  But when Jesus walks into the temple and sees these same merchants defiling the House of God, He rips them up and down, turns their tables over and beats them till they scatter from the House of God.  Jesus was very Loving, But his Love was Directed at His Father and His Fathers House.


My opinion;  I will not confront a queer in the store for Holding hands, I will not stay around them and if I have a little one with me of reasonable age of understanding I will instruct that little one as to the nature of that or any sin.  If I see a Homo making a run for any office in our Gov. I will stand against them by my Vote.   But when I see a Homo taking the pulpit or any place of leadership in the church,I will act and attempt to drive them out.  The only open place for any open sinner is the "sit quitely" spot or the Alter of Repentance.  

Any sinner is welcome to come to Church, only repentant sinners who have come to Christ and have been raised up from the Dead and have proven themselves to be true may become a Teacher/ Pastor Etc Those who have forsaken sin.


Well there you have it. MYOPINION.
early57

[sincereheart]

Ah Early57, it's so good to see you again!

Jesus was walking through town and saw Merchants all around the city.  He never condemns them; I would be more inclined to think that Jesus bought stuff from them from time to time for his personal needs.  But when Jesus walks into the temple and sees these same merchants defiling the House of God, He rips them up and down, turns their tables over and beats them till they scatter from the House of God.  Jesus was very Loving, But his Love was Directed at His Father and His Fathers House.

 

[Symphony]

Yes, welcome back, Early.  


Yes, Jesus came not to condemn the world(John 3:17).  That is true.

Maybe like someone said recently:  Which hill do you want to die on?

At some point the wrongness has to be challenged, or rebuked, or exposed.  With a cost, I suppose.  

But true, the risk is that you will be wrong yourself, or that you will do it wrongly.  

My "thesis" is that there are still some young people out there who're looking to the "adults" of this world to say something--just to say something.  Even if they aren't looking for it, by virtue of their youth alone, and their inexperience to this wild and crazy world, they at least deserve it??


Many "adults" are saying little, if anything.  Many of them/us, care only for our own security.   The homosexuals are instinctively picking up on this "insecurity", and exploiting it.

And we are failing our young people miserably.

The gay thing is blatantly wrong.  They aren't here, incidentally, about homosexuality, at all(I'll pick this up on separate thread).

I'm thinking I will prefer to die on this hill.  If I have the "courage", which of course only God can give??

In Jesus' Name...

[Symphony]

Perhaps, ebia, if we're allowed to still be "human" even as we are Christians?

Yes, Jesus came not to condemn the world(John 3:17).  That is true.

Which hill do you want to die on?

At some point the wrongness has to be challenged, or rebuked, or exposed.  With a cost, I suppose.  

But true, the risk is that you will be wrong yourself, or that you will do it wrongly.  

My "thesis" is that there are still some young people out there who're looking to the "adults" of this world to say something--just to say something.  Even if they aren't looking for it, by virtue of their youth alone, and their inexperience to this wild and crazy world, they at least deserve some clarification??


Many "adults" are saying little, if anything.  Many of them/us, care only for our own security.   The homosexuals are instinctively picking up on this "insecurity", and exploiting it.

And we are failing our young people miserably.

The gay thing is blatantly wrong.  They aren't here, incidentally, about homosexuality, at all(I'll pick this up on separate thread).

I'm thinking I will prefer to die on this hill.  If I have the "courage", which of course only God can give??

In Jesus' Name...