Am I Going to Heaven ?

[suzie]

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8–9)

Grace is all that God is free to do for mankind on the basis of the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Faith is a nonmeritorious system of perception based on confidence in the authority, veracity, and ability of God to provide salvation. Grace is the gift of salvation; faith is the means. The object of faith, our Lord Jesus Christ, has all the merit. As Jesus Christ hung between heaven and earth, God the Father imputed our sins to Him and judged them.
He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross. (1 Pet. 2:24a)
Jesus Christ paid the penalty of sin and spiritual death. He became our substitute.
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf [as our substitute], that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)
Because of the work of Jesus Christ, salvation is available to everyone.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved," (Acts 16:31a)

Can a baby believe? I dont know, can it?
If two people attend church and one is saved and the other isnt, it isnt about who is better. It is about one who hears the Gospel and repents, believing in Jesus. God gives us salvation as a gift. We dont earn it, or deserve it. But we are saved by faith through grace. God calls all of us, but not all will come to know Him as Lord and Savior.

[Left Coast]

suzie
He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross. (1 Pet. 2:24a)
Jesus Christ paid the penalty of sin and spiritual death. He became our substitute.
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf [as our substitute], that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

I agree with you on all of the above statements.

Because of the work of Jesus Christ, salvation is available to everyone.

Neither your salvation plan nor mine makes salvation available to every one.
By your gospel salvation is dependent on believing. All sorts of people have lived on this earth and have never heard of Jesus. Therefore it is impossible for them to believe.
Paul said:
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

By my gospel Jesus only paid for the sins of those who would become saved. Once the price was paid it can never be paid again. So if He paid for everyone’s sin  then even those who do not accept Him would not have to go to hell. That is not possible.
We must be born again before we can truly believe.

John 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus also stated that believing was because of Gods work:
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The problem is the heart. Mans heart is unable to truly believe. Mans heart is totally corrupt. We become saved when God gives us a new heart.

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Hebrews 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Can a baby believe? I dont know, can it?

I’ve raised four children - NO.
That is the problem with a gospel where believing is a requirement. Babies cannot be saved with such a gospel.
On the other hand if it is God who does the saving then babies can become saved, in fact John the Baptist was saved while he was still in the womb.
Luke 1:41  And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

[lizmom]

Just my 2 cents:
I think we are saved by grace of God, who causes us to believe, so that we can be saved. It's kind of thinking in a circle, but I don't think we can ever fully grasp the meaning of our salvation (till we get to heaven). God knew we were going to be saved before we were born, so it was His doing, not ours. However, He has said numerous times to believe and be saved. It's a paradox, but God doesn't contradict Himself. It's no easier to understand salvation than it is to understand the Trinity. My preacher used to say we were always saved, we are fully saved, and we will be saved. Past, present, and future. Something to think about.

[Brother Love]

"Salvation So Simple”
Psalms 3:8
By – Connie Spivey
http://www.voy.com/24596/10.html

Salvation is so simple but to a lot of people it is hard to understand, so they can’t believe salvation is free for them! They don’t realize that they can be saved, just by believing. They feel like they should do something to save themselves. In other words pride always believes that everyone has something good in him or her. Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him (Christ) the iniquity of us all. But John 5:24 says Verily, Verily, I say unto you, he that hearth my word and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation: but is passed from death unto life. That verse says to us we cannot do anything to help save ourselves! Isaiah 64:6, but we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind have taken us away. I am not comparing us with monkeys at all, just making an illustration. I understand the way they capture monkeys in Africa; they put something that the monkey likes to eat in a jar that is large enough at the top so they can put their hand into the jar. But it will not come back through the top of the jar! So the monkey will not let go of the food, so he holds on to it! That way, they are trapped and all they have to do is let go of it and pull out their hand. But the jars are fastened down so they capture them and they loose their freedom. That is the way a lot of people are, they will not let go of their own works and so they are trapped by the Devil, and hang on to their works instead of being set free. They can trust the Lord for their free Salvation by accepting the work that Christ did on the Cross-when He died for their sins. He paid the sin debt and it cost God His son, but it is free and did not cost us anything!

Good message Brother, thanks for posting it

Brother Love

[Brother Love]

Just my 2 cents:
I think we are saved by grace of God, who causes us to believe, so that we can be saved. It's kind of thinking in a circle, but I don't think we can ever fully grasp the meaning of our salvation (till we get to heaven). God knew we were going to be saved before we were born, so it was His doing, not ours. However, He has said numerous times to believe and be saved. It's a paradox, but God doesn't contradict Himself. It's no easier to understand salvation than it is to understand the Trinity. My preacher used to say we were always saved, we are fully saved, and we will be saved. Past, present, and future. Something to think about.

YES! Amen

Christ died"FOR"our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3) Past, Present and Future.

Brother Love

[Left Coast]

If you pick and choose verses of scripture you can come up with all sorts of gospels. Even reincarnationists use the bible.
Believing is a work. That is why Paul said people could not believe until they had hear about Jesus:

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Jesus said it was Gods work that we believe:

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

In other words it is up to God to save us and the result of our salvation is believing.

James 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devils believe, are they saved? Of course not.
We are commanded to believe:

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

If our salvation is based on our keeping Gods commandments then once again that would be a work.
And how about that idea of confessing with our mouth and believing in our heart:

Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For many people their entire belief that they are saved revolves around this verse of scripture. To truly believe we need a complete change of heart. This verse has a companion verse elsewhere to explain it:

Proverbs 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Notice that it is God that does the work.
This relationship between the two verses is similar to the relationship found in many verses of the bible. A good example is found in Deuteronomy 10:

Deuteronomy 10:16  Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Are we supposed to perform open heart surgery on ourselves? We can’t cut the sin nature out of our heart. Only God can do that, so he gives us the solution:  

Deuteronomy 30:6  And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

What is circumcision? It is keeping the commandments of God.

1 Corinthians 7:19  Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

In our pride we like to think we have some control over our destiny. There is a little bit of a control freak in all of us.
For those of you that believe salvation is based on our believing --- WHAT HAPPENS TO A BABY IF IT SHOULD HAPPEN TO DIE?

[Petro]

lizmom,

I see that we are on the same page, and thank you for your sharing..the truth of scripture.

Left Coast,

Thank you very much for sharing these scriptures, I have shared this herein many times over and over, to scoffers.

May I now add, one verse which will, hopefully make clear to some, that even to believein Jesus,  is given by God thru grace; otherwise how can anyone believe in what they have rejected all their lives.

Phil 1
29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

I makes the time spent sharing this very truth, not to be a waste of time, even if one understands, how helpless one is, before coming to faith in Christ.

It is questionable, if anyone that does not understands this truth, whether they have come to the truth.

Some even would claim they have and will save themselves and will keep themselves saved by keeping this commandment or that one.

I even had one person here, confront his helplessness, with rantings about not being able to play a part in  anything about his situation, thats how decevied the Evil one has people, even those claiming the name of the Lord.

Keep 'um coming. The truth will not be held back, when given in power by the Spirit.

God Bless,

Petro

[Petro]

As for, your question;

"WHAT HAPPENS TO A BABY IF IT SHOULD HAPPEN TO DIE? "

Such a question cannot be answered rationally by those who hold to a carnal belief system.

Their answer is simply baptize them; yet the Word of God, states emphatically,

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This is why it best not to even ask such a question.

We know, that the judge of all the earth will do what is right.

So that the answer to this lies with what God has done, and not what man does.


Blessings,

Petro

[Left Coast]

If believing is a requirement for salvation than all babies would go to hell. But they do not. David said he would see his son again, but his son could not come to him he would go to his son.

If salvation is a result of our believing I would like to know how babies become saved. Is there another salvation plan for babies and others who are incapable of believing.
I don't know why you would not want to ask that question.
I've had four children I hope some day in the not too distant future to have grandchildren. It eases a parents mind to know their baby wouldn't go to hell, if something should happen, just because the baby was to young to believe.
C.H.Spurgeon did not dodge the question:
"By election, by redemption, by regeneration, the child enters into glory, by the selfsame door by which every believer in Christ Jesus hopes to enter, and in no other way." (C.H.Spurgeon from the sermon Infant Salvation)
He not only didn't dodge the question he wrote an entire sermon about it.

[suzie]

That is interesting ..there are lots of sermons by lots of preachers that say lots of things.

However, that doesnt make them all right, does it?

Do babies sin? How do we become sinners?

[Petro]

That is interesting ..there are lots of sermons by lots of preachers that say lots of things.

However, that doesnt make them all right, does it?

Do babies sin? How do we become sinners?

Say suzie,

you wouldn't be the old she bear, would you??

You remind me of her posts, kind of tenaicious, and always ignoring what is written for her own edification.

She put forth her own ideas, kind of prided herself in being vociferous, as I remember claiming..

However they  never made them  right, either..


Sinners are born dead in sin.  I suppose you don't believe this scripture (not an idea) either.  (1 Cor 25:22)


Petro
 

[Petro]

Left Coast,

I like CH Spurgeon, and he certainly preached the true word.

The subject concerning babies and there death an salvation, is not within the realm of mans ability to comprehend, it certasinly is something Christians should leave at the feet of Him whom we have to with.

Since it is God who elects and predestinates, and it depends on His Sovreignty, we can only speculate, the fact is we can speak affirmitively of that which we understand, and that is, that they are born altogether in sin, there is no such thing as
"age of accountability" with God.

And since he is sovereign and brings his plan into fruition without consulting flesh and blood, whether He saves some or all, it is not something we should speculate on.

The fact is David, spoke of the child at;

2 Sam 12
23  But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

He never said he would see, the child, he simply spoke of the grave.

David did shed some light on this matter, when he said;

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psa 51:5


Believeing parents are a benefit to their children, for by their parents faith they are sanctified by the Lord, even the unbelieving wife or husband. (1 Cor 15:14)

Since the just live by faith, it is the faith of believeing parents in God's nature, that comforts them, they know and understand this matter is out of their hands, and is in the realm of God the judge of all the earth and Him alone.

I don't sidestep issues, I simply try to avoid, giving the impression to the unlearned that God kills babies, He doesn't, we know they are born dead because of Adams transgression.

Blessings, Petro

 

[Left Coast]

I’ve said this before I had four babies --- You bet they sin.
Think about this, is anger a sin, jealousy, greed, covetness, you know the sins babies do.
But don’t take my word for it, take a look at the bible.
Before we become saved we are counted among the wicked.

 Psalms 58:3  The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
 Psalms 58:4  Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Unfortunately we begin our life of sin as soon as we are born.
I feel that one of the greatest sins committed in churches is putting children in a nursery away from the saving word of God.

Romans 10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Jesus rebuked the disciples for not allowing the children to come close to Him.

Mark 10:13  And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
Mark 10:14  But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Gods kingdom is made up of all sorts of people, all ages, all colors, all levels mental ability, and both sexes.
John the Baptist was six months in the womb when Mary came to his home pregnant with the Lord. John leaped for joy, meaning he became saved.

Luke 1:41  And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

I don’t know where the idea came from that David was talking about the grave.
I always thought that he quit his fast and did not morn because he knew he would see his son in heaven.
David knew the gospel.
Psalms 51:14  Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

[suzie]

Babies are in the spiritual state of innocence because they don't know right from wrong.

We become sinners through breaking the Law (1 John 3:4).

Paul said, "I would not have come to know sin except through the Law" (Rom 7:7).

Romans 3:20: "For through the Law comes the knowledge of sin."

Romans 5:13: "For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no Law."

"To one who knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).

[Petro]

I’ve said this before I had four babies --- You bet they sin.
Think about this, is anger a sin, jealousy, greed, covetness, you know the sins babies do.
But don’t take my word for it, take a look at the bible.
Before we become saved we are counted among the wicked.

 Psalms 58:3  The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
 Psalms 58:4  Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Unfortunately we begin our life of sin as soon as we are born.
I feel that one of the greatest sins committed in churches is putting children in a nursery away from the saving word of God.

Romans 10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Jesus rebuked the disciples for not allowing the children to come close to Him.

Mark 10:13  And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
Mark 10:14  But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Gods kingdom is made up of all sorts of people, all ages, all colors, all levels mental ability, and both sexes.
John the Baptist was six months in the womb when Mary came to his home pregnant with the Lord. John leaped for joy, meaning he became saved.

Luke 1:41  And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

I don’t know where the idea came from that David was talking about the grave.
I always thought that he quit his fast and did not morn because he knew he would see his son in heaven.
David knew the gospel.
Psalms 51:14  Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

Left Coast,

I don't disagree with your position, I disagree with your  "thought that David quit his fast and did not morn because he knew he would see, his son in heaven"

You interject the word see, where it is not written so.

It is a good thought, but the fact is it is not clear, David, simply said "I will go to him, but he shall not return to me"

David certainly believed God, the child in my opinion was sanctified, this can be said for sure, he was innocent of his fathers sin, God had another reason for "striking the child".

I find it compelling that God doesn't kill people for no reason, if this child was indeed saved; Why did the Lord strike him, that he should die?? (2 Sam 12:13-15,

It is clear the Lord struck him, because of David's trangression.  It is preplexing..I must say.

Was the blood (which ran through the childs veins from  David) of the child what counted for the remission of Davids sin??

There is a bigger story here, after this baby's death, Solomon was born to both David and Bathsheba, who goes on to inherit the throne, whom the Lord will re establish on the earth during His millenial reign.

This little story, reminds me of the story of Esau and Jacob, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.(Rom 9:13)

Isaac believed God, and yet, here God hated one and loved the other, before either had done good or bad.

It is a mystery, to me...

Petro