King James Version 100% pure

[Sammi]

The argument that new versions leave so much out .....

There are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts available that also vary in wording and in amount of text.

All of this arguing lends to even more division. It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else. That they are the only ones saved and the only ones that are following the word of God. This sounds very much like many cults.

Hi Roger, Yes, there are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that vary in wording and amount of text.  The question is: Do we have a complete, inerrant and infallible Book around today in any language that IS NOW the pure words of God?

You apparently do not know, or care, or believe such a Book exists.

As for your false allegations that we KJB believers think we are better than anyone else or the only ones saved, this is totally untrue.  I know full well I am a wretched sinner who deserves hell for my many sins.  If I know anything of truth, it is by the sovereign grace of God.  Neither I nor the vast majority of KJB believers I know of think that we are the only ones saved.  Have I said anything at all to imply otherwise?  No.  Then why do you come up with such silly accusations against us?


Roger, the only great difference between the King James Bible believer and a multiple choice, "No Bible is inspired or inerrant", Bible of the Month Club member like yourself is that we believe there really is an inspired and inerrant Book on this earth and you do not.  You can still be a saved child of God using an inferiour bible version that is not inerrant and is perverted in many ways.  Salvation is not the issue.  The Inspiration, inerrancy and preservation of the words of God is the issue, and on this you and I disagree.  But please, don't overstate your case and try to make yourself out to be some kind of martyr for the cause of "any version will do" and make the Bible believer out to be some kind of a cultist just because he believes The Bible is inerrant when you do not.

Will

Here are some interesting reads   :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King-James-Only_Movement
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/kjvo.htm
http://www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm#questions
http://www.kjvonly.org/

[nChrist]

Sammi,

I did some research on this topic recently and was absolutely shocked. The Internet is full of false and ridiculous statements from King James "Only-ists". The ones I hate the worst is the gist - All other Bible Translations are works of the devil. The Internet is loaded with statements like this, and it's all based on a completely false and impossible to defend group of thoughts about the KJV.

YES! - Many of the KJV Only-ists rise to cult level. Many are good soldiers of King James, but NOT JESUS CHRIST! It's impossible for them to answer the most simple questions, as the most simple questions prove what they are saying is false. I asked a few of those simple questions here, and not a single one was answered.

I have no problem in saying that the KJV is an excellent translation and maybe the best, but it is JUST a translation. Many have carried this to the extreme and have actually made the KJV an idol. At the very least, the KJV Only-ists preach King James and have no time to preach JESUS CHRIST. The KJV Only-ist is their doctrine, their only doctrine, and this doctrine is harming God's work around the world. In this regard, I would echo the gist of what the Apostle Paul said - I would rather know nothing except Christ and Him Crucified.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Peter 1:3-5 ASV  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Sammi]

Sammi,

I did some research on this topic recently and was absolutely shocked. The Internet is full of false and ridiculous statements from King James "Only-ists". The ones I hate the worst is the gist - All other Bible Translations are works of the devil. The Internet is loaded with statements like this, and it's all based on a completely false and impossible to defend group of thoughts about the KJV.

YES! - Many of the KJV Only-ists rise to cult level. Many are good soldiers of King James, but NOT JESUS CHRIST! It's impossible for them to answer the most simple questions, as the most simple questions prove what they are saying is false. I asked a few of those simple questions here, and not a single one was answered.

I have no problem in saying that the KJV is an excellent translation and maybe the best, but it is JUST a translation. Many have carried this to the extreme and have actually made the KJV an idol. At the very least, the KJV Only-ists preach King James and have no time to preach JESUS CHRIST. The KJV Only-ist is their doctrine, their only doctrine, and this doctrine is harming God's work around the world. In this regard, I would echo the gist of what the Apostle Paul said - I would rather know nothing except Christ and Him Crucified.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Peter 1:3-5 ASV  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The links I put up are the opposing side of KJV onlyists, not saying that KJV is wrong, but asks a lot of questions that I'm sure you yourself asked that couldn't be answered. And from what I saw, the KJV has it's own problems. Mmhm...... The only thing that seems to be inerrant, is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To say that KJV is the perfect word of God is dangerous in my very humble opinion.

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen Sammi and blackeyedpeas,

To say that KJV is the perfect word of God is dangerous in my very humble opinion.

This is indeed true. To say that it is the inerrant word of God causes people to look at it closely and point out the mistakes in it. Then when they see the mistakes there is the thought that that God lies. WE ALL KNOW THAT GOD CANNOT LIE!

THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND PRAISE GOD HE WILL RETURN FOR US ONE DAY!!

[brandplucked]

gotcha104,

As for your false allegations that we KJB believers think we are better than anyone else or the only ones saved, this is totally untrue.

I did not make any false accusations. I said, "It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else."  Note the word impression. It shows your lack of comprehension of written words and causes you to make false accusations.

There is no sense in my discussing this any further with someone that cannot understand the simple meaning of such simple written words.

In Christ,

Hi Roger, what you said was this:

There are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts available that also vary in wording and in amount of text.
All of this arguing lends to even more division. It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else. That they are the only ones saved and the only ones that are following the word of God. This sounds very much like many cults."

Roger, apparently this is the "impression" that you yourself share, and you directly imply that we Bible believers are an exclusive cult of some kind.

Roger, are you aware that your arguments are very much like those a non-Christian would use when discussing the Christian faith?  He would say very much the same things you are.

"Just because you Christians think that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way of salvation, you think you are better than everybody else, and you are the only ones who are saved.  You are just a cult."

To a non-believer the true Christian will always seem like he is setting himself up as exclusive, better than others, and the only ones who are saved.  Truth always divides, and those who are on wrong side of Truth will slander and debase those who have it.

The simple fact regarding the issue of the Inerrancy of the Bible is this.  I believe the King James Bible is the providentially preserved pure words of God and you do not believe such a thing exists.

I am by no means saying or implying you are not a true child of God.  I believe you are redeemed by the same blood of the Lamb that I am; but I believe The Book is 100% true, and I can tell anyone what it is called and where they can get a copy;  you do not.

Will K

[brandplucked]

Micah 5:2
    2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
       though you are small among the clans of Judah,
       out of you will come for me
       one who will be ruler over Israel,
       whose ORIGINS [c] are from of old,
       from ancient times. [d]
Footnote of online NIV:
Micah 5:2 Or from days of eternity

footnote of mine at home:
5:2 In contrast to the dire prediction of v. 1, Micah shifts to a positive note. Ephrathah. The region in which Bethlehem was located(see Ru 1:2: 4:11: 1Sa 17:12).ruler.Ultimately Christ, who will rule (see note on 4:8)for God the Father. ORIGINS....from of old. HIS BEGINNINGS were much earlier than His human birth(see Jn 8:58). FROM ANCIENT TIMES. Within history(cf. 2Sa 7:12-16: Isa9:6-7: Am 9:11),and even from Eternity(see NIV text note).


Acts 13:33

 " 'You are my Son;
      today I have become your Father.'[c] 34The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
   " 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.'[d] 35So it is stated elsewhere:
   " 'You will not let your Holy One see decay.'[e]

footnote:
Or have begotten you
cross reference: Psalm 2:7 : 7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
       He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ;
       today I have become your Father. [e]


I am not falsely accusing "the Bible believer" of anything. I am a Bible believer also, I just choose to read the NIV TRANSLATION of THE BIBLE.

Hi Sammi, you still have the same problem with the NIV.  It still speaks of the ORIGINS of Christ as from ancient times, and the problem exists in the TEXT of the NIV in Acts 13:33 that says: "Today I have become your Father".  The NIV teaches that Christ had origins or a beginning at some time in the past, and it teaches that there was a certain day before which God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The Jesus Christ portrayed in the NIV is a created being, rather than the eternal and everlasting Son of God who has always existed.

Use your NIV if you wish, but it is a bogus bible.

Will K

[Sammi]

Micah 5:2
    2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
       though you are small among the clans of Judah,
       out of you will come for me
       one who will be ruler over Israel,
       whose ORIGINS [c] are from of old,
       from ancient times. [d]
Footnote of online NIV:
Micah 5:2 Or from days of eternity

footnote of mine at home:
5:2 In contrast to the dire prediction of v. 1, Micah shifts to a positive note. Ephrathah. The region in which Bethlehem was located(see Ru 1:2: 4:11: 1Sa 17:12).ruler.Ultimately Christ, who will rule (see note on 4:8)for God the Father. ORIGINS....from of old. HIS BEGINNINGS were much earlier than His human birth(see Jn 8:58). FROM ANCIENT TIMES. Within history(cf. 2Sa 7:12-16: Isa9:6-7: Am 9:11),and even from Eternity(see NIV text note).


Acts 13:33

 " 'You are my Son;
      today I have become your Father.'[c] 34The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
   " 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.'[d] 35So it is stated elsewhere:
   " 'You will not let your Holy One see decay.'[e]

footnote:
Or have begotten you
cross reference: Psalm 2:7 : 7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
       He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ;
       today I have become your Father. [e]


I am not falsely accusing "the Bible believer" of anything. I am a Bible believer also, I just choose to read the NIV TRANSLATION of THE BIBLE.

Hi Sammi, you still have the same problem with the NIV.  It still speaks of the ORIGINS of Christ as from ancient times, and the problem exists in the TEXT of the NIV in Acts 13:33 that says: "Today I have become your Father".  The NIV teaches that Christ had origins or a beginning at some time in the past, and it teaches that there was a certain day before which God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The Jesus Christ portrayed in the NIV is a created being, rather than the eternal and everlasting Son of God who has always existed.

Use your NIV if you wish, but it is a bogus bible.

Will K

That is just your opinion, and you are allowed an opinion. My WORD is alive and in me, not just on some paper. Say what you want, but the KJV is not the perfect word of God, the perfect word of God is the Son of God, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Worship your Bible if you must, but I will worship Christ.

PS, I put some links a few posts back that debunk your "theories" on the KJV being the inerrant word of God. It isn't inerrant as man is errant and can make mistakes in translation. It is your preference to read it, but please don't call it inerrant or perfect, because it isn't.

[brandplucked]

Hi Sammi, you still have the same problem with the NIV.  It still speaks of the ORIGINS of Christ as from ancient times, and the problem exists in the TEXT of the NIV in Acts 13:33 that says: "Today I have become your Father".  The NIV teaches that Christ had origins or a beginning at some time in the past, and it teaches that there was a certain day before which God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The Jesus Christ portrayed in the NIV is a created being, rather than the eternal and everlasting Son of God who has always existed.

Use your NIV if you wish, but it is a bogus bible.

Will K

That is just your opinion, and you are allowed an opinion. My WORD is alive and in me, not just on some paper. Say what you want, but the KJV is not the perfect word of God, the perfect word of God is the Son of God, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Worship your Bible if you must, but I will worship Christ. ;)

PS, I put some links a few posts back that debunk your "theories" on the KJV being the inerrant word of God. It isn't inerrant as man is errant and can make mistakes in translation. It is your preference to read it, but please don't call it inerrant or perfect, because it isn't.

Hi Sammi, it is unfortunate that you don't care to take the time to refute my arguments about the clear NIV theological blunders (heresy), but instead rail against the KJB or any bible as being inerrant.  This has been my contention all along.  You modern versionists do not believe any Bible or any text is the inerrant word of God.  Welcome to the ever expanding Bible of the Month Club.  

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

2 Timothy 4:3-4

Will K

[Bronzesnake]

Hi Sammi, you still have the same problem with the NIV.  It still speaks of the ORIGINS of Christ as from ancient times, and the problem exists in the TEXT of the NIV in Acts 13:33 that says: "Today I have become your Father".  The NIV teaches that Christ had origins or a beginning at some time in the past, and it teaches that there was a certain day before which God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The Jesus Christ portrayed in the NIV is a created being, rather than the eternal and everlasting Son of God who has always existed.

 I guess if you're going to leave your brain on your night table, verses such as the one you pointed out could seriously confuse you. These type of arguments are used by non believers to attack Christianity all the time. If you read the entire bible, you can actually put things in their proper context.

 As far as the NIV portraying Jesus as a created being -

 NIV John 1:1-5

1)In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2)He was with God in the beginning.

3)Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4)In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5)The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

 It's pretty clear about who Jesus is my friend.

[PeterAV]

[quote author=blackeyedpeas .....It's impossible for them to answer the most simple questions, as the most simple questions prove what they are saying is false. I asked a few of those simple questions here, and not a single one was answered......

I have no problem in saying that the KJV is an excellent translation and maybe the best, but it is JUST a translation. Many have carried this to the extreme and have actually made the KJV an idol. At the very least, the KJV Only-ists preach King James and have no time to preach JESUS CHRIST..
Love In Christ,
Tom

*******
I understand where you are coming from.But you will find what you accuse of the KJVers,with the whateverist do also.
You will find "certain" fellows on both sides.

I know of no KJVer that takes his KJV and sets up an altar to it.We simply are defending the Holy Bible is all.You can read your other versions,it is still a free world out there.But we are simply showing that the KJV is the "VERY" words of God.Perfect,and without proven error.And we expose the lies of the Christian hallways and classrooms that would usurp God's words With their own Arbitrary choices against what God said.Just like Eve,being tempted of the Devil.She failed and wanted to be a god.That way she could be her own final authority and be the arbiter against God's own words.

The same thing is happening today.The modern versions are using corrupted manuscripts,so the versions become corrupted themselves.Many are good,godly men and with good intentions.And a few have recanted,knowing of the ridicule they would receive.

The opposite is the case about preaching Jesus/verses KJV.
I have only preached on the KJV once.All the other times were for salvation or growth of some sort for the glory of God.

Maybe you are talking about posting?Just look at the numbers of people that read this thread,and you will see that it is indeed a very important topic in the eyes of many.As it should be.

[Sammi]

[quote author=blackeyedpeas .....It's impossible for them to answer the most simple questions, as the most simple questions prove what they are saying is false. I asked a few of those simple questions here, and not a single one was answered......

I have no problem in saying that the KJV is an excellent translation and maybe the best, but it is JUST a translation. Many have carried this to the extreme and have actually made the KJV an idol. At the very least, the KJV Only-ists preach King James and have no time to preach JESUS CHRIST..
Love In Christ,
Tom

*******
I understand where you are coming from.But you will find what you accuse of the KJVers,with the whateverist do also.
You will find "certain" fellows on both sides.

I know of no KJVer that takes his KJV and sets up an altar to it.We simply are defending the Holy Bible is all.You can read your other versions,it is still a free world out there.But we are simply showing that the KJV is the "VERY" words of God.Perfect,and without proven error.And we expose the lies of the Christian hallways and classrooms that would usurp God's words With their own Arbitrary choices against what God said.Just like Eve,being tempted of the Devil.She failed and wanted to be a god.That way she could be her own final authority and be the arbiter against God's own words.

The same thing is happening today.The modern versions are using corrupted manuscripts,so the versions become corrupted themselves.Many are good,godly men and with good intentions.And a few have recanted,knowing of the ridicule they would receive.

The opposite is the case about preaching Jesus/verses KJV.
I have only preached on the KJV once.All the other times were for salvation or growth of some sort for the glory of God.

Maybe you are talking about posting?Just look at the numbers of people that read this thread,and you will see that it is indeed a very important topic in the eyes of many.As it should be.

And you KJVonlyists are causing other Christians to have to defend THEIR Bibles from YOU. To say that KJV is the VERY words of God and is perfect and without proven error is not only dangerous it is a lie. And KJVonlyists are causing extreme damage to new and non-believers. My first Bible was given to me by my parents when I was a liitle girl, and it was KJV. When I was about 23 I was given an NIV Bible by a very good friend and I could read and understand the WORD OF GOD  much easier and was blessed immensely by being able to pray, open my Bible and understand it. To tell people who choose to read other than KJV that they are watered down, or Satanic or any other garbage is just that . Garbage. It does tend to start sounding cultish and should stop.

I am not saying that the KJV is wrong or inferior, but it is not inerrant nor without flaw. I choose NIV because I understand it better, you choose KJV because you say any other is the work of the devil.
 And by the way, you don't have to put up an altar to worship something.
I am quite tired of people who are supposed to be Christians, telling other Christians that the Bible they read is inferior or Satanic, just because it's not KJV. Is God also English since His "only" word is in old English?

Sorry if I sound angry, but I am.

[Shammu]

Brother Sammi, that is why, I orgionally locked this thread. Tempers were flaring, name calling, ect., ect.

Everyone needs to calm down some. This is the only warning I will give this thread, this time. As I only check this thread every few days. Because the discussion can play only tune. Some start to beat on one another, that will not happen this time.

Something everyone needs to know. Every Bible has flaws, unless you have studied classical greek, or hebrew. Something I am starting to learn right now. Yes, There are mistakes in the KJV, as well. For example, Gen 32:30 states, "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."  However, John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."  Both statements cannot be true.  Either there is an error of fact, or an error of translation.  In either case, there is an error. And if there is an error, then infallibility of the Bible (in this case the King James Version) is falsified.  A typical defense used here is to look up the meaning of the original Hebrew/Greek, read that one of the words can have multiple meanings, and then pick the meaning that seems to break the contradiction. So as you can see, all Bibles have mistakes.

Resting in the Lords arms.
Bob

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

[PeterAV]

Sammi,The reason you are really angry,is that you cannot find any errors in the Holy Bible.And that exposes you and shakes your opinionated foundations.Ours is not based upon opinion at all,but simple faith in God's word,and conviction that is is indeed that;God's word.
We dare to believe God and take God at his word.He said he would preserve his word,and he has.The perfect KJV.It has 99% of the manuscript evidence supporting it.But all of the other modern versions have corrupted manuscripts pumped out by heretics,like Jerome.
Jerome said in his preface,as the pope asked him to "CHANGE" the text to support the Catholic churches doctrines.
"I'm going to be exposed,for there is already many true Latin Bibles out there and I will undoubtedly be branded an Heretic."

Then there is Origen.The Alexandrian himself.His Hexapla,the fifth collumn is the LXX which is 200 AD,not bc like Alexandrians like to promote.Plus all of his ugly doctrines were rampant.He taugh baptismal Regeneration and Purgatory.
He did more to corrupt christianity than almost any other person.Plus he would switch OT readings to match New Testament readings.That way he could claim that his LXX is more accurate than the Original Hebrew.Ya,right.

Even today,there are scholars pumping the praises of Origen.
Such great clairity of doctrines,[hack,choke,spitoowie].

These wonderful doctrines were

No physical resurrection
Universal salvation
Salvation by works
Mystical kiss
Baptismal regeneration
Postmillenialism
Calling a pastor,"PRIEST"

Then we have Eusebius that made all of these corruptions socially acceptable at the bidding of Constantine.

And finally we have Westcott and Hort resurrecting this bunk and Changing the Bible in thousands of places.They hated God's word.Many articles have already exposed their corruptions of the manuscripts and the English Bible.

And this is the foundation of almost every modern version out there.Totally unreliable.But go ahead,you can use it.It is a free world out there still.

Allow the conviction of the Holy Ghost to convince you that God's word is final.Not man's.
That is what all of the versions and lexIOCONs are about.Making themselves the Final authority.But they all disagree.So they continue in their multiple versions and accept the less,the husks,instead of going back to the father and his perfect word.

[PeterAV]

Here is a typical King James site that shows the two lines of Bibles.
The true line that the KJV comes from.
The fake corrupted line that the modern versions come from.
*******
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/kjcontra.htm

PeterAV

[SelahJoy]

hey brothers and sisters, can I add to this very long thread?

the debate is very interesting and it teaches me supporting evidence for my beliefs, and as i have been reading, it seems to me that to debate a point using offense leaves us outside the fulfillment of Jesus' request, that we be unified the way He and the Father are.  i have always been touched by the fact that Jesus even prayed for unity in John 17.  it seems important to me to see that our Lord cared so much about unity that he made sure His prayerful request got preserved for us to read.  (my favorite chapters in all the Bible are John 14-17 cuz those are Jesus' very words.  they tell us in a nutshell---of His love, purpose, and our instructions.)  i take a stand in hopes of always giving Jesus His heart's desire.  i am sure that each of you do too.  i mean, if He were standing in our home right now asking us to show compassion to everyone in this thread, i'm sure when we look into His eyes and see His miraculous love, and when we hear His voice that sounds like rushing water, we would be moved to compassion for every person.   all versions of the Bible ask us to be unified.  no matter what my point of view is, i pray to have one mind in Christ Jesus with each of you.  i hope you pray to have one mind in Christ Jesus with me because just think, that makes our God unified with us!

the Bible is an ancient book with hope.  hope to know the mysterious God who died for you and me.  hope to have more faith to believe in the one true God who then rose from the dead.  hope we get to live with Him forever, and hope we pray for each other letting the Holy Spirit in.

as for my opinion?  i read the NKJV.  read the NIV when I was a baby Christian (6 years ago).  grew up reading the KJV.  now, i am willing to compare and contrast any Bible (at least once), all the while asking the Holy Spirit for guidance.  what i really want is to learn the original languages of Greek and Hebrew, salted with a healthy dose of cultural, historical understanding so i can consider the context in which the writer wrote.
 
love ya, and am wondering what you think?
selahjoy*