IS YOUR BIBLE THE RIGHT ONE?

[Saved_4ever]

Let me in on it Joel, what are you trying to say?

I'm saying that the KJV itself proves that it is not the Only translation we should use as Christians.  

And I don't believe the KJV is even the best.  The Textus Receptus is simply not as accurate (partially because at the time it was compiled, there were not as many manuscripts available from which to translate as there are today) as the Critical Text.  

I would agree that some modern "translations" should be avoided.  But that doesn't mean they all should.  Some are better than the KJV in many ways.  And trying to stick to the old English words in a world where no one speaks like that doesn't make sense.  

Joel

I don't feel like arguing over this too much however.... The "newer" texts found are iffy and found in undesirable places as well.  I'm not interested in texts found and used by the unsaved.  Text that are little or barley "used" (as in though they are old they have not been "used").  As we all should know any good bible believing person wears out his bible from much use.  As my Pastor likes to say often "Dirty bible = clean heart, Clean bible = dirty heart".  So ancient unused texts are shady at best to me.  There are many arguments on both sides about the texus receptus verses the modern texts in both how they were written and preserved etc.

And trying to stick to the old English words in a world where no one speaks like that doesn't make sense.

The old english of the KJV is when english was really at it's best and most defined.  By that I mean that I mean things were not as all inclusive as the language is now which makes it quite easy to play the ambiguous card on meaning and hence "interpretation" which is the biggest excuse for shaky and unknowledgable or even worse man pleasing "christians".

If taking time to learn the LORD's word and the english of the KJV is silly well.... that's your opinion.  I find it worth my time to learn it and in fact it's not very difficult for some of the lower levels of readers.  The LORD's word is worth my time to study and read and taking that little extra to understand superior english is worth it as well.  As I've said many times before I had to study even older english than the KJV in school and children have used it for centuries.  Stop being lazy.

The KJV is simply the best.  

[Brother Love]

"TWO"Thumbs UP Saved_4ever





 

[Brother Love]

What You Do With The Book

I consider myself very fortunate to be outside the mainstream denominational system.  It allows freedom from the bondage of church doctrine and eliminates the pressure to be a good church member.  Being an outsider allows one to look past the fluff of Sunday school lesson books and daily devotional material.  Unfortunately, this type of material is the focal point of most churches since it substitutes the meat of the Word with the milk of their own doctrine.  Keeping the flock ignorant of Biblical truth is the best way to fill the pews on Sunday morning and bring in enough money to build another building.

The fastest way to be asked to leave a church is to get into the Bible and start asking questions.  If you don’t believe that is true, then try one of these:  Challenge your Baptist preacher on the practice of altar calls and water baptism.  Tell your Pentecostal preacher that speaking in tongues should no longer be practiced.  Show your Methodist preacher that your marching orders are not found in the so-called "great commission" (Matthew 28:19-20).  Inform a Mormon elder that he must close the Book of Mormon if he wants to learn truth.  Tell your Catholic priest that confessing your sins to him or teaching about purgatory is not based on scripture.  Church leaders love feeding milk to their flock.  If you make it widely known that you want more in your Christian life, you will be labeled as a troublemaker.  The good news is that this is something you should strive to do.  You want to be outside the denominational system.  Paul tells us in Romans 16:17-18 to mark them and avoid them.

Recently, in one of our small Bible study gatherings the man teaching the class made a simple, but profound statement.  He said, "What you do for God is what you do with this book".  He was referring to the King James Bible he was holding in his hand. God has given us his perfect word.  Anything we do of value in God’s name has to be grounded in Biblical truth.  If we want to know God’s will, forget about the commentaries and religious books that clutter up your bookshelves and dive straight into the Word of God.  If you sincerely seek truth and knowledge, and are willing to believe what you read, God will give it to you.  Knowledge belongs to God and to whom he gives it.

The bottom line is to get in the book.  It would do us all good to make a sincere effort to study the Bible daily and be thankful for everything God shows us.  God tells us in 2 Timothy 2:15 to "study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".  God wants you in the book.  Everything we need to know about God is in the Bible.  We will all be judged by what we do with this book.  The Bible both saves and condemns.  Those that accept the plan of salvation outlined in the writings of the Apostle Paul will be saved and have their works judged based on the foundation laid by Paul (1 Corinthians 3:10-15).  If you choose to cling to church doctrine instead of truth, your works will burn at the judgment seat of Christ.   The Bible will condemn far more than it saves.  The multitudes that reject this salvation are condemned to eternal damnation.

A Bible probably sits in your house on a bookshelf or table.  It is surely closed much more often than it is opened.  What will you do with this book?  That is the question that each person has to answer for himself.  There is nothing that you can do for God that is independent of this book.  God wants you to study his word and to share his wonderful gospel with others.

[Shammu]

What You Do With The Book

I consider myself very fortunate to be outside the mainstream denominational system.  It allows freedom from the bondage of church doctrine and eliminates the pressure to be a good church member.  Being an outsider allows one to look past the fluff of Sunday school lesson books and daily devotional material.  Unfortunately, this type of material is the focal point of most churches since it substitutes the meat of the Word with the milk of their own doctrine.  Keeping the flock ignorant of Biblical truth is the best way to fill the pews on Sunday morning and bring in enough money to build another building.

The fastest way to be asked to leave a church is to get into the Bible and start asking questions.  If you don’t believe that is true, then try one of these:  Challenge your Baptist preacher on the practice of altar calls and water baptism.  Tell your Pentecostal preacher that speaking in tongues should no longer be practiced.  Show your Methodist preacher that your marching orders are not found in the so-called "great commission" (Matthew 28:19-20).  Inform a Mormon elder that he must close the Book of Mormon if he wants to learn truth.  Tell your Catholic priest that confessing your sins to him or teaching about purgatory is not based on scripture.  Church leaders love feeding milk to their flock.  If you make it widely known that you want more in your Christian life, you will be labeled as a troublemaker.  The good news is that this is something you should strive to do.  You want to be outside the denominational system.  Paul tells us in Romans 16:17-18 to mark them and avoid them.

Wonderful point, Brother Love.

As I belong to a small church, that applys only Bibble doctrine to the lessons. We learn, only what is in scripture. What a wonderful way God has with words. So simple, yet so refined.

Resting with the Lord.
Bob

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen.

[Pilgrim]

Let me in on it Joel, what are you trying to say?

I'm saying that the KJV itself proves that it is not the Only translation we should use as Christians.  

And I don't believe the KJV is even the best.  The Textus Receptus is simply not as accurate (partially because at the time it was compiled, there were not as many manuscripts available from which to translate as there are today) as the Critical Text.  

I would agree that some modern "translations" should be avoided.  But that doesn't mean they all should.  Some are better than the KJV in many ways.  And trying to stick to the old English words in a world where no one speaks like that doesn't make sense.  

Joel

I don't feel like arguing over this too much however.... The "newer" texts found are iffy and found in undesirable places as well.  I'm not interested in texts found and used by the unsaved.  Text that are little or barley "used" (as in though they are old they have not been "used").  As we all should know any good bible believing person wears out his bible from much use.  As my Pastor likes to say often "Dirty bible = clean heart, Clean bible = dirty heart".  So ancient unused texts are shady at best to me.  There are many arguments on both sides about the texus receptus verses the modern texts in both how they were written and preserved etc.

And trying to stick to the old English words in a world where no one speaks like that doesn't make sense.

The old english of the KJV is when english was really at it's best and most defined.  By that I mean that I mean things were not as all inclusive as the language is now which makes it quite easy to play the ambiguous card on meaning and hence "interpretation" which is the biggest excuse for shaky and unknowledgable or even worse man pleasing "christians".

If taking time to learn the LORD's word and the english of the KJV is silly well.... that's your opinion.  I find it worth my time to learn it and in fact it's not very difficult for some of the lower levels of readers.  The LORD's word is worth my time to study and read and taking that little extra to understand superior english is worth it as well.  As I've said many times before I had to study even older english than the KJV in school and children have used it for centuries.  Stop being lazy.

The KJV is simply the best.  

KJV Bible verses in conflict with each other.

2Ch 22:2  Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.

2Ki 8:26  Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.
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2Ch 36:9  Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

2Ki 24:8  Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
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2Ch 2:2  And Solomon told out threescore and ten thousand men to bear burdens, and fourscore thousand to hew in the mountain, and three thousand and six hundred to oversee them.

2Ch 2:17  And Solomon numbered all the strangers that were in the land of Israel, after the numbering wherewith David his father had numbered them; and they were found an hundred and fifty thousand and three thousand and six hundred.
2Ch 2:18  And he set threescore and ten thousand of them to be bearers of burdens, and fourscore thousand to be hewers in the mountain, and three thousand and six hundred overseers to set the people a work.

1Ki 5:15  And Solomon had threescore and ten thousand that bare burdens, and fourscore thousand hewers in the mountains;
1Ki 5:16  Beside the chief of Solomon's officers which were over the work, three thousand and three hundred, which ruled over the people that wrought in the work.
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2Sa 15:7  And it came to pass after forty years, that Absalom said unto the king, I pray thee, let me go and pay my vow, which I have vowed unto the LORD, in Hebron.

1Ki 2:10  So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
1Ki 2:11  And the days that David reigned over Israel were forty years: seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.
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Act 12:4  And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Easter is wrong the Greek word means passover.
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Act 19:37  For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.

Should read robbers of temples rather than robbers of Churches.

[Allinall]

Its about time Joel (Your starting to think) Joel do you have Eternal Life (OSAS)?

I'm not sure what you are getting at.  Yes I have eternal life, and I believe in the Perseverance of the Saints.  

I find it interesting, though, that you did not answer my argument, nor did you answer my previous argument in this thread.  

Joel

He won't...

  Your my favorite

Brother?  I must say that, while I disagree with you on virtually everything you tend to say, and think that you are without a doubt the most backward believer I've ever met, you still have one of the most solid basis' and understandings of God's saving grace and willingness to share that with others I've seen here.  With all that said...

I LOVE YOU BROTHER LOVE!!!! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
 

[Brother Love]

Its about time Joel (Your starting to think) Joel do you have Eternal Life (OSAS)?

I'm not sure what you are getting at.  Yes I have eternal life, and I believe in the Perseverance of the Saints.  

I find it interesting, though, that you did not answer my argument, nor did you answer my previous argument in this thread.  

Joel

He won't...

  Your my favorite

Brother?  I must say that, while I disagree with you on virtually everything you tend to say, and think that you are without a doubt the most backward believer I've ever met, you still have one of the most solid basis' and understandings of God's saving grace and willingness to share that with others I've seen here.  With all that said...

I LOVE YOU BROTHER LOVE!!!! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
 

Heavy Dude, thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[Bern]

Honestly, all this fuss about translations. I prefer the KJV for general reading and believe it to be the most accurate simply because it makes clear, points that, in other translations can be muddied. That doesn't mean we shouldn't use other translations. I have about 5 translations and look at them all when studying the Word.

Translation may be important to people in their posh middle class living rooms.. sipping tea while studying their bible.. but you try telling a street kid in a dope addicted New York jitterbugging gang that he must only read the KJV. Good luck with that one.

The Holy Spirit is not limited by us..He can speak to people via any means He chooses, one of the most powerful ways being us allowing Him to work through us and show Christs love to people. If people are truly trusting in God and relying on the Holy Spirit He will reveal the truth to them, no matter which translation they use.

Certain versions of the bible simply aren't translations.. like the street bible, or the message... i think they too perhaps have their place in street evangelism, though I wouldn't encourage someone to continue with them once they had become Christians. Just my 2 pence worth

[Melody]

Does the Holy Spirit have anything to do wth it?
Does it prick your heart as the sword of the Holy Spirit to lead you to faith in Jesus Christ and to love one another and to have no other Gods but Jehovah?
 Does it produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit in you?
Does it cause you to be watchful for the Lord's return and ready?
 Does it cause you to do good unto evil?
 Does it admonish and exhort you daily to assemble with fellow saints for the purpose of edifying and building one another up in the Lord?
 Does it make you want to sing and pray and shout praises to God and thank Him for His gift through Jesus Christ?
 Does it make you want to be with God where there will be no more pain or tears, or death or evil or bad?
 Does it make you want to lift holy hands to God and thank Him for all your daily physical blessings needed to sustain this life and also for all spiritual blessings in Christ now and to come?
Does it fill you with the love of God so much that you want to share this love with others?

If the answer is yes, you have the right Bible!

While I'm enjoying this whole debate, you've made a beautiful observation, Ollie.

[Melody]

I have several different versions of the Bible including the KJV so was interested in the differences noted in the very first post of this thread since the differences cause a change in meaning between the versions.

I know many people look at the Bible as the inerrant and infallible word of God and that the translations are divinely inspired.  I never have and look at is more as an inspirational book and a guide for living my life.  I do not interpret it literally.

My question is to those who believe the Bible is the infallible and inerrant word of God and that the translations are divinely inspired *and* who believe that the various versions each have their own merit and one is not necessarily better than the other.  Since some of these changes (see original post) change the meaning of the text, how do you reconcile that they are all the infallible word of God?  Don't you have to choose one as the correct book and one as incorrect because it's inaccurate?

I have a few more questions, but I'll do a new post.

[Brother Love]

EMPHASIS ON EVANGELISM


"...to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery" Eph. 3:9a

by Oscar Woodall

A MOST TREACHEROUS DOCTRINE

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ"

Galatians 1:6-12.

In my 33 years of assurance of salvation, my foremost desire has been to be a part of observing lost souls being saved and saints being encouraged in their faith in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

One of the doctrines proclaimed that brings most confusion to lost and saved people is the one that will agree in the inspiration and preservation of God*s infallible word regarding the doctrines of the virgin birth of the Lord Jesus Christ; his sinless life; his death, burial, and resurrection for the payment of our sins; his second coming to reign on earth; as well as other essential teachings of the faith; and then state that a person can be saved and subsequently lost. Having confessed these first positions, the one of eternal security (mentioned last) has a striking effect at the heart of the gospel of the grace of God.

A leading "Christian psychologist," broadcasting on many radio stations, openly admits that he believes a saved person can later be lost. He agrees with his party-line denomination that an individual can "will" to enter God*s family and then can "will" to get out of it. Do you think a person of this persuasion is a fellow believer in Christ? I would not! Why not? I know that NONE of my brothers or sisters in Christ are going to hell. Anyone who thinks they can get in and then back out of God*s family has one of two problems. Either they have not trusted in Christ and him alone, or they have been placed (or have placed themselves) under a law/performance system.

Our great comfort and task in training soldiers for spiritual warfare is the following assurances:

1. We cannot judge a man, however we can judge a message. "...The Lord knoweth them that are his..." 2 Tim. 2:19.

2. We should be suspiciously vigilant and anxiously concerned for others being deceived.

"Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another her gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him" 2Cor 11:1-4.

So BEWARE! May each of us who are saved saints of the Most High God develop and increase the ministry of "CAREFRONTATION." Aggressive personal soul winning is the order for today for us as the ambassadors for Christ. Interesting and exciting war stories will follow, not classroom or theoretical events, but front-line experiences.


Mr. Woodall lives near Orlando, Florida, with his wife, Dorothy. He is the founder of Eternal Life Ministries, and is active in personal evangelism everywhere he goes. He ministers the Word of God regularly in jails and prisions.

Posted By Brother Love

  <))><

[Melody]

BL,
Interesting post but I don't see that it answers my question as to how the Bible can be the inerrant and infallible word of God when the Bibles differ in their wording which seems to change meaning.  I'm not sure you can answer this since, if I understand your previous posts, you believe the KJV is the only accurate Bible.

Looking forward to responses.  Thanks.

[Marv]

Melody,

That is why we get to statement such as this about the Bible.

The Bible, including both Old and New Testaments as originally given, is the verbally and plenarily inspired Word of God and is free from error in the whole and in the part, and is therefore the final authoritative guide for faith and conduct.

While a KJVO person would hold up the KJV as the standard.  I hold that the originals were and are perfect and are the standard.

Many people have dedicated their lives to working diligently to make sure the translations we have are a close to the originals as possible.  We trap ourselves if we say every word of a translation is perfect because we end all need for futher scholarship.  The whole art and science of textual criticism is toward the goal of understanding written language such that we can be very sure about what the originals were like. Anyone that translates languages knows that it is really impossible to translate all the subtleties of one language into another.  But that doesn't mean we can't try.

When arguing translations, it is popular to take a verse here and a verse there and say either the text behind it is not the most likely to be correct, or that the translation job itself did not do the best job of rendering the meaning to the reader.  Those indeed are often valid criticisms of a particular translation.

That being said, very very seldom does a doctrine hang totally on one verse, and never in the foundational truths.

So do you have any examples of where doctrine is changed by a translation that was done by people sincerely trying to do a good job?  I don't include "translations" done specifically to hide truth, though even there it does tend to show through.  I won't say there aren't any (I haven't found them), but I do say there aren't any that can't be handled with a little study into the matter.  I am not asking for an example where its like these three words are left off a verse and so you can't tell this from that verse, I mean where the translation is so bad that a truth is lost from the translation.

Marv

[Melody]

<<I won't say there aren't any (I haven't found them), but I do say there aren't any that can't be handled with a little study into the matter.  I am not asking for an example where its like these three words are left off a verse and so you can't tell this from that verse, I mean where the translation is so bad that a truth is lost from the translation.>>

Ok....I think I see now.  So you're saying that the "doctrine" is inerrant and infallible....not that the text has to be word for word exact?