King James Version 100% pure

[brandplucked]

I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment.

OK - I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment.  ;D

I must interject (again) in a debate that, due to egos and individual understanding, seems to never go away.
I generally stay out of translation discussions.  In my opinion the Word is so simple a baby must understand it – if not the Word is wasted.  That’s what I’ve been taught.  If any version of the Word reaches ears willing to hear – as long as that translation teaches that Jesus is God our Savior the Holy Spirit and through faith in Him we are saved - it is a valid translation.  
*AV and AV* - it seems to me you are turning the Holy Trinity into the wholly quadriplegic.  (Forgive the pun.)   ;D
The translated written Word, while holy, is no more holy than the ground Moses took his sandals off to walk on during a visit to Mt. Sinai.  If all is based on the written Word rather than the Trinity, then the Trinity is crippled.  
The Word is more than translated documents comprised of letters and prophecies.  The Word is the Word.  The Word is the God inspired oral testimony you heard in church last Sunday.  The Word is a Christian witnessing to a fellow commuter on a NY City bus.  The Word is on a message board in front of a community Church that makes a passerby visit and become saved.  The Word is what Jesus writes in our hearts every time we pray.  To limit the Word to a single written translation of letters is ludicrous to me.  
And in defense of Reba (though she can defend herself quite well, thank you):  When we attend a revival and the Spirit is renewed in our hearts and we jump for joy – the Word is certainly a tool God uses, but, again, it is the Word of testimony, the Word of history and the Word of wisdom that sends the Spirit into our hearts – not the Word from a single Bible translation.  
We are all born with particular gifts from God.  For some it is the gift of testimony, for some the gift of giving, for others the gift of teaching, or others the gift of helping.  It appears to me, *AV and AV*, that your gift may be one of studying and translating the written Word.  All I would ask is; please make sure that while you are exercising the gift God gave you that it doesn’t blind you to the Simple, Saving Word – the Word that a baby can understand.  
God Bless!!!!!!
Jim

Amen to that. I am kind of disheartened by this topic. I left a Church body that was preaching from the pulpit that anything other than the KJV was devil worship, and that we will be reading the KJV when we get to Heaven. They also did a whole lot of other things that are not Biblical, but I won't go that far into it. Oh, and they were Fundamental Baptist if that makes a difference. I found a Bible teaching Body instead of a Bible bashing Body. ;D

Hi saints, just a comment or two here.  It is not the King James Bible only people who are "bashing the Bible".  The King James Bible believers are the only ones who firmly declare and confess that God has in fact given us an inerrant Book.

All the polls clearly show that belief in an inerrant Bible is rapidly declining here in America.  This is a no brainer.  It is all the modern version promoters who, when cornered about what they really believe, are the ones who are denying that The Bible (any Bible) IS NOW the inerrant words of God.

All modern bible version contain proveable lies and false doctrines. All of them.  Christians today are the most Biblically ignorant generation of believers this country has ever seen.  The "cream of the crop" that go to Bible colleges and seminaries are woefully ignorant of the Bible basics, and most Christians today read or study the Bible very little.

The church is shifing to a New Age mysticism and the idea that "What may be true for me is not necessarily truth for you."

The Book tells us very clearly that there will be a falling away from the faith in the last days before the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is happening now and no one is going to stop it.

All those who do not believe the King James Bible is the inerrant words of God, thinks that no bible and no text is the inspired, complete and inerrant words of God.  Once you begin to hold this view (that there is no inspired and inerrant Bible on this earth), there remains only the slippery slope into full blown apostasy.

Will K

[Sammi]

Thank you, but I will stick to my NIV. Despite what KJV only people suggest, I am not a Satan worshipper. My Bible is not taking away the Deity of Jesus, He is God in my Bible and says so over and over. If a person chooses to read the KJV, so be it, but don't try to tell me that I worship Satan by reading my translation. I do no such thing. That is a really great way to discourage potential believers or new believers, and I think it is very wrong. There are such things as fanatics and I have seen them first-hand, it's not pretty.    

[nChrist]

Thank you, but I will stick to my NIV. Despite what KJV only people suggest, I am not a Satan worshipper. My Bible is not taking away the Deity of Jesus, He is God in my Bible and says so over and over. If a person chooses to read the KJV, so be it, but don't try to tell me that I worship Satan by reading my translation. I do no such thing. That is a really great way to discourage potential believers or new believers, and I think it is very wrong. There are such things as fanatics and I have seen them first-hand, it's not pretty.    

Hello Sammi,

After over 50 years of using the KJV, I recently changed to another translation for the very reasons you note.  I have no desire to be associated with something as destructive as this is, and I'm quite happy with my new translation. Besides, THE BIBLE is in Hebrew and Greek, and I speak and read in English. The KJV is nothing more than just a good translation.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 2:2-5 ASV  For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.  And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.  And my speech and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:  that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Sammi]

Thanks blackeyedpeas, I think this sort of topic is becoming divisive in the body of Christ and maybe that is Satans whole purpose, to cause us to war among ourselves so as to take our minds and hearts away from the truly important things and fight amongst each other. It sure doesn't show much good to the unbelievers when we as Christians are fighting amongst ourselves over which version of the word to read and not read. I have had several unbelievers mention how ridiculous we seem over this issue, and if we can fight amongst ourselves over our own Gods word, then why should they get caught up in that? Very sad..........

[nChrist]

Sammi,

I agree, but I think that you understated the problem. The KJV-Only-ist cult problem HAS ALREADY been divisive for a long time. It is my firm opinion that their radical statements - like translations other than the KJV are works of the devil, etc. have damaged God's Work beyond measure. I had no idea how bad this problem was until just recently. Their statements are obviously false and without logic at all, so the result is hypocrisy and confusion.

The real irony lies in the fact that most of the KJV-Only-ists have a one track mind and do nothing except glorify a man's book and tear down others that are all being used by God. Another irony is their lack of knowledge about God's message and their preaching of NOTHING except the glory of King James and his translators. So, not only do they neglect the real work that needs to be done, they harm those who ARE doing the real work. The real work doesn't involve King James at all - RATHER THE KING OF KINGS - OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR - JESUS CHRIST - AND THE CROSS!

So, after considerable prayer, I decided to discard King James and the problems associated with it to expend all of my energy in serving ONLY OUR LIVING LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 3:14-21 ASV  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man;  that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; to the end that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be strong to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye may be filled unto all the fulness of God.  Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all generations for ever and ever. Amen.

[Sammi]

Amen blackeyedpeas! What is so ironic about what a lot of the ones who say the KJV is the only version and all others are devils tranlations, is that they can and do twist the words and doctrines just as easily from the KJV as they can in the other versions. I've seen and heard it done, like I said it's not pretty.I don't believe the NIV that I read is the only translation, it's just the one I prefer, I can read it and study it and get what I need from it without being confused by archaic words that I don't understand. I want to worship and learn about my Lord, I can do that with my NIV just fine.

[brandplucked]

Thank you, but I will stick to my NIV. Despite what KJV only people suggest, I am not a Satan worshipper. My Bible is not taking away the Deity of Jesus, He is God in my Bible and says so over and over. If a person chooses to read the KJV, so be it, but don't try to tell me that I worship Satan by reading my translation. I do no such thing. That is a really great way to discourage potential believers or new believers, and I think it is very wrong. There are such things as fanatics and I have seen them first-hand, it's not pretty.  :-\  

Hi Sammi, no one here who is a KJB onlyist is saying you are worshipping Satan.  I never said this nor even implied it.  However I do believe Satan's fingerprints can be seen in the NIV, but this does not mean that you are worshipping Satan at all.  You are perhaps being deceived by the devil in that you no longer believe any Bible on earth is now the inerrant words of God, but you are not worshipping him.

I have never denied that a person can get saved and be a true Christian even is he or she uses an inferiour bible version.  The gospel of salvation through Christ is still in even the worst of bible versions out there.

As for the deity of Christ in the NIV, I believe it is greatly weakened in many verses.  1 John 5:7 "The Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one" is missing from the NIV.

Likewise that "GOD was manifest in the flesh" has been seriously changed in the NIV of 1 Timothy 3:16.

And perhaps more seriously, the NIV tells us that the Son of God had "origins..from ancient times" in Micah 5:2 and in Acts 13:33 the NIV teaches there was a day when God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The NIV frequently rejects all Hebrew readings in the Old Testament, and omits literally thousands upon thousands of Hebrew and Greek words - about 64,000 of them.  But you are free to read anything you want to.  No one is forcing you to use the true Holy Bible.  

May I point out to you that it is the modern versionists who are the ones who are openly telling other Christians that "No Bible is inerrant"; "All versions have errors", and it is the modern versionists who are claiming that there is no inspired and inerrant Bible on this planet.


God said He would send a famine of hearing the words of God.  See Amos 8:11-12.  If you chose to feed on a very unhealthy diet of watered down and inferiour bible versions, go right ahead.  But do not falsely accuse the Bible believer of saying that you are worshipping Satan.  We never said this.

Will K

[brandplucked]

Hello Sammi,

After over 50 years of using the KJV, I recently changed to another translation for the very reasons you note.  I have no desire to be associated with something as destructive as this is, and I'm quite happy with my new translation. Besides, THE BIBLE is in Hebrew and Greek, and I speak and read in English. The KJV is nothing more than just a good translation.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Tom, it is obvious that you do not believe any Bible or any text is now the inerrant words of God.  This has been my point all along.  When you tell us: "THE BIBLE is in Hebrew and Greek, and I speak and read in English" - you are in effect telling us that you do not have an inerrant Bible.  

There is no "The Hebrew and The Greek", but rather several variations of Hebrew texts and literally thousands of texual variations in "THE Greek".  In essence, you have identified NOTHING as being "The Bible".

Even if we accept the Hebrew readings (and I certainly do), then why do such versions as the NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV and Holman Standard all frequently reject the Hebrew readings?

Apparently you are now going with the ASV.  Do you think the ASV IS the inerrant words of God?  Of course not.  

Again, like Sammi, you are free to do whatever you want to with the Bible version issue.  Truth always divides.  As the church slips more and more into shallowness and apostasy, and most pastors no longer believe any Bible is now the inerrant words of God, for my part, by the grace of God, I will continue to stand for the truth that God has kept His promises and has preserved His words in a Book here on this earth.  It is the Authorized King James Holy Bible, and none other.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Will K

[Sammi]

Thank you, but I will stick to my NIV. Despite what KJV only people suggest, I am not a Satan worshipper. My Bible is not taking away the Deity of Jesus, He is God in my Bible and says so over and over. If a person chooses to read the KJV, so be it, but don't try to tell me that I worship Satan by reading my translation. I do no such thing. That is a really great way to discourage potential believers or new believers, and I think it is very wrong. There are such things as fanatics and I have seen them first-hand, it's not pretty.    

Hi Sammi, no one here who is a KJB onlyist is saying you are worshipping Satan.  I never said this nor even implied it.  However I do believe Satan's fingerprints can be seen in the NIV, but this does not mean that you are worshipping Satan at all.  You are perhaps being deceived by the devil in that you no longer believe any Bible on earth is now the inerrant words of God, but you are not worshipping him.

I have never denied that a person can get saved and be a true Christian even is he or she uses an inferiour bible version.  The gospel of salvation through Christ is still in even the worst of bible versions out there.

As for the deity of Christ in the NIV, I believe it is greatly weakened in many verses.  1 John 5:7 "The Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one" is missing from the NIV.

Likewise that "GOD was manifest in the flesh" has been seriously changed in the NIV of 1 Timothy 3:16.

And perhaps more seriously, the NIV tells us that the Son of God had "origins..from ancient times" in Micah 5:2 and in Acts 13:33 the NIV teaches there was a day when God was not the Father of the Son of God.

The NIV frequently rejects all Hebrew readings in the Old Testament, and omits literally thousands upon thousands of Hebrew and Greek words - about 64,000 of them.  But you are free to read anything you want to.  No one is forcing you to use the true Holy Bible.  

May I point out to you that it is the modern versionists who are the ones who are openly telling other Christians that "No Bible is inerrant"; "All versions have errors", and it is the modern versionists who are claiming that there is no inspired and inerrant Bible on this planet.


God said He would send a famine of hearing the words of God.  See Amos 8:11-12.  If you chose to feed on a very unhealthy diet of watered down and inferiour bible versions, go right ahead.  But do not falsely accuse the Bible believer of saying that you are worshipping Satan.  We never said this.

Will K

I have had KJV onlyists saying that exact thing. Here is the NIV version of 1 John 5:7-8 and the footnote from the online NIV:

   6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.




Here's the footnote on the online NIV Bible:
1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)


1 Timothy 3:16
16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
   He[c] appeared in a body,[d]
      was vindicated by the Spirit,
   was seen by angels,
      was preached among the nations,
   was believed on in the world,
      was taken up in glory.


Footnote from online NIV
1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God
1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the flesh

cross reference for mine at home:
John 1:14:
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Micah 5:2
    2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
       though you are small among the clans of Judah,
       out of you will come for me
       one who will be ruler over Israel,
       whose origins [c] are from of old,
       from ancient times. [d]
Footnote of online NIV:
Micah 5:2 Or from days of eternity

footnote of mine at home:
5:2 In contrast to the dire prediction of v. 1, Micah shifts to a positive note. Ephrathah. The region in which Bethlehem was located(see Ru 1:2: 4:11: 1Sa 17:12).ruler.Ultimately Christ, who will rule (see note on 4:8)for God the Father. origins....from of old. His beginnings were much earlier than His human birth(see Jn 8:58).from ancient times. Within history(cf. 2Sa 7:12-16: Isa9:6-7: Am 9:11),and even from Eternity(see NIV text note).

So, John 8:58:   58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
footnote for John 8:58: I am! A solemnly emphatic declaration echoing God's great affirmation in Ex 3:14(see vv. 24,28: see also note on 6:35). Jesus did not say "I was" but "I am", expressing the eternity of His being and His oneness with the Father(see 1:1).With this climactic statement Jesus concludes His speech that began with the related claim, "I am the light of the world".

Acts 13:33

 " 'You are my Son;
      today I have become your Father.'[c] 34The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
   " 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.'[d] 35So it is stated elsewhere:
   " 'You will not let your Holy One see decay.'[e]

footnote:
Or have begotten you
cross reference: Psalm 2:7 : 7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
       He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ;
       today I have become your Father. [e]


I am not falsely accusing "the Bible believer" of anything. I am a Bible believer also, I just choose to read the NIV TRANSLATION of THE BIBLE.  I have had a KJV only advocate say that I was worshipping Satan by reading the NIV,and this from his pulpit, and he also said that we would be reading the KJV when we get to Heaven, I want to know why we would do this when we will be in the PRESENCE of the WORD? I also did not say that ALL KJV onlyists said that I am worshipping Satan, but there are those that do.

[Shammu]

I use the KJV, though I have been noted for using, KJV, NIV, NASB, and ASV. I myself find it easier to understand KJV.

Everyone has a different view, how sad it would be if; we all were the same. We all worship the Lord, in our own ways. Who is to say, my way is the only way. Only Jesus Christ, can say that, not you, not me. I have noticed that, every single one of us worship our Lord differently. Yet the meaning comes our the same.

Resting in the Lords arms.
Bob

Nahum 1:7 The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in him,

[Soldier4Christ]

I prefer the KJV also. As I have said before it was my first reader. As for many denominations coming from reading the newer versions ....  Think a minute of how many denominations there are that only had the KJV for so many, many years.

The argument that new versions leave so much out .....

There are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts available that also vary in wording and in amount of text.

All of this arguing lends to even more division. It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else. That they are the only ones saved and the only ones that are following the word of God. This sounds very much like many cults.

As for things left out of some Bibles .....

There are many books that are mentioned in the Bible (yes even the KJV) as valid scripture yet they are not to be found in any Bible. Does this mean that the KJV is corrupt and we should throw it away, too?

There is the written word and there is The Inerrant Word. I will follow The Inerrant Word.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

This word spoken of here in these verses does not come to us in a book.

[Sammi]

I completely agree and say a huge Amen Pastor Roger.

[ForHisGlory]

Amen
I am a KJV girl myself, but I think that everyone is allowed his/her own choice in the matter.

[brandplucked]

The argument that new versions leave so much out .....

There are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts available that also vary in wording and in amount of text.

All of this arguing lends to even more division. It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else. That they are the only ones saved and the only ones that are following the word of God. This sounds very much like many cults.

Hi Roger, Yes, there are many Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that vary in wording and amount of text.  The question is: Do we have a complete, inerrant and infallible Book around today in any language that IS NOW the pure words of God?

You apparently do not know, or care, or believe such a Book exists.

As for your false allegations that we KJB believers think we are better than anyone else or the only ones saved, this is totally untrue.  I know full well I am a wretched sinner who deserves hell for my many sins.  If I know anything of truth, it is by the sovereign grace of God.  Neither I nor the vast majority of KJB believers I know of think that we are the only ones saved.  Have I said anything at all to imply otherwise?  No.  Then why do you come up with such silly accusations against us?


Roger, the only great difference between the King James Bible believer and a multiple choice, "No Bible is inspired or inerrant", Bible of the Month Club member like yourself is that we believe there really is an inspired and inerrant Book on this earth and you do not.  You can still be a saved child of God using an inferiour bible version that is not inerrant and is perverted in many ways.  Salvation is not the issue.  The Inspiration, inerrancy and preservation of the words of God is the issue, and on this you and I disagree.  But please, don't overstate your case and try to make yourself out to be some kind of martyr for the cause of "any version will do" and make the Bible believer out to be some kind of a cultist just because he believes The Bible is inerrant when you do not.

Will

[Soldier4Christ]

gotcha104,

As for your false allegations that we KJB believers think we are better than anyone else or the only ones saved, this is totally untrue.

I did not make any false accusations. I said, "It gives people the impression that KJV onlyist think they are better than anyone else."  Note the word impression. It shows your lack of comprehension of written words and causes you to make false accusations.

There is no sense in my discussing this any further with someone that cannot understand the simple meaning of such simple written words.

In Christ,