Papal Address Confirming Evolution

[Royo]

Amen Tom.
What you have said is the sign of one who truly loves God, and knows that we "see through a glass darkly."
Let me also admit that my 'devoutness' sometimes causes me to speak more 'boldly' than perhaps I should. I don't THINK I'm wrong in the truth I share, but that doesn't mean I CAN'T be wrong.
Thank you for your words, and for being who you are.
Your brother and friend, Roy.

[Tibby]

Oh, Heidi, Heidi. My question is, why did it take you 9-10 pages to finally admit you did at one time agree? You could have said it 9 pages earlier, and saved you self a lot of trouble. What took you do long? You could have said it in the first post you made, and saves us some time and trouble. So, why did it take you so long?

What did we say that distorted your words? The only distorting going on around here is the distorting of Catholic Doctrine.

BEP- religion is a touchy issue. To admit someone else is right is to admit you are wrong, and to admit you are wrong is like saying the life you have lived is a lie. It may not be true, but you can’t help but feel such way. Thanks for sharing.

[Heidi]

Ah, Tibby, I said that i used to believe the Catholic doctrine three times on page 10. It goes to show me that you either don't read all the posts or you distort my words. You could have read them and saved us some time and trouble.

I don't believe i've distorted the fact that the pope is called the Holy Father, or the "Hail Mary's" are said after confession, or that the Saints are prayed to, or that the pope is adorned in magnificent attire, or that there are more sacriments than Jesus asked of us, or that we are saved by baptism, or that there are venial and mortal sins, or that there is more hierarchy than is scripturally required, and on and on. Those are facts. None of those things are scriptural. They are man made and some contradict Christ's words, the person who is supposedly head of the church. No, I don't like what the catholics deem as important. I have also said that I'm sure there are some born again Christians in the church. I just don't agree with the doctrine.

In order to see what's true, one does have to look at the fact that they might be wrong. That's what i was telling Atheist when i said that all of us Christians were once unbelivers. In order to seek the truth, we had to admit that we could be wrong. That is when we found the answers. My feelings about the Catholic church have changed so i don't mind admitting when I am wrong. I would love to be wrong about them now, but there are too many things that keep re-enforcing the belief that they are too worldly to be passing on Christ's message. Maybe I'll change my mind again some day. But right now, I disagree with their doctrine.

[sunodino]

You could say, that all of us have a little repentance due about how we have tried earnestly to present our views but in some cases, (especially my own) that there was plenty of "snide" to go around.  BEP you snapped me back into reality of how I am expected to fellowship with my fellow Christians, not put them down!  Isn't that what Satan wants, a house divided! Thanks for your wisdom!

What could be as poetic, beautiful, precious and right but this(?)

Roman 14[/u]
5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7  For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10  But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

James 1[/u]
19  Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20  For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21  Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22  But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23  For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24  For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25  But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26  If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27  Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

[ebia]

I don't believe i've distorted the fact that the pope is called the Holy Father,

Maybe not, but you've tried to distort the significance of the phrase.

or the "Hail Mary's" are said after confession, or that the Saints are prayed to,
Depends what you mean by the word "pray".  Catholics tend to use the word differently to protestants.

or that the pope is adorned in magnificent attire, or that there are more sacriments than Jesus asked of us,

Jesus, as far as I know, never used the word sacriment at all.

 

or that we are saved by baptism, or that there are venial and mortal sins, or that there is more hierarchy than is scripturally required, and on and on.

Required is not the same as helpful, and scripture does not prohib hierarchy.

Those are facts.

Dear, oh dear.

None of those things are scriptural.

You haven't demonstrated a single thing to be unscriptural.  And you haven't demonstrated much understanding, however much you may claim it.

They are man made and some contradict Christ's words, the person who is supposedly head of the church.

More proof by assertion.

No, I don't like what the catholics deem as important.

This is the real crux of it, I suspect.  You don't like it, so it must be wrong.

In order to see what's true, one does have to look at the fact that they might be wrong. That's what i was telling Atheist when i said that all of us Christians were once unbelivers. In order to seek the truth, we had to admit that we could be wrong. That is when we found the answers. My feelings about the Catholic church have changed so i don't mind admitting when I am wrong. I would love to be wrong about them now, but there are too many things that keep re-enforcing the belief that they are too worldly to be passing on Christ's message.

If the Catholic church is so poor at passing on the message, but is still many times bigger than all the other churches put together, it doesn't say much for the rest of us.

Maybe I'll change my mind again some day. But right now, I disagree with their doctrine.

So far, you haven't demonstrated much understanding of their doctrine, so your disagreement doesn't count for a lot.

[ebia]

I may be going out on a limb here, but I would have to say that the "vast majority" of Catholics don't know why they are Catholics.

Since the majority of Catholics live in places like Brazil, I doubt anyone here as the faintest idea how well informed they are.

[Heidi]

Tibby, you seem to know more about the Catholic church than the bible. Do you even know what a sacriment is? Read Jesus's words very carefully. It is in them that you will find the truth. Not in a church. Out of curiousity, Tibby, when did you get saved?

[Saved_4ever]

Once again, Ebia, well said. Heidi, if you are set on not listening to our view point, don't accuse us of not listening to yours. I don’t know what you call it, but in the Catholic Church, we call that Hypocrisy. We hear what you are saying, but what you are saying isn’t true. It would be like if a Frenchman where to say “Americans are all dirty hippies who smoke weed.” It isn’t that we would not listen to him, it is just that what he has to say it totally false. Maybe there are a few Americans who are like that, but the vast majority aren’t.

Only minus the hippies really.

[sunodino]

It seems that nothing can break up this hair pulling, mud wrestling fight!  No wisdom from above, no fellowship of love.

There is a saying; Ignorance is bliss  (except when you have to continually read it on this web site)

Tibby, ebia, et al - SNIDErs -  ???This is not WWJD

Is 58:4  Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness:[/color]

Rom 1:29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate...,

Greek: 054. eris, er'-is; of uncert. affin.; a quarrel, i.e. (by impl.) wrangling:--contention, debate, strife, variance.

Prov 1:22  How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?[/color]

[Heidi]

Jesus said "I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword". That's not say that He wants us to drum up conflict, but  He had to stand up for what's true, even if it CAUSED conflict. Therefore I think it's imperative that each of us knows what we're fighting for. My biggest concern here is people's salvation. I believe that's done out of love. It might be considered tough love but I think Jesus was the master of tough love. But it is genuine love because it gives us the only lasting love. It causes father to go against son, mother against daughter, etc.

I personally do not think that the Catholic church emphsizes salvation more than it emphasizes works and deeds. Someone just told me that the Catholic church DISCOURAGES reading the bibe. It reminded me of when i went to the Catholic church. There were no bible in the pews and we were NEVER told to read it. How can one understnad christ's worda and form a [PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM if they don't understand, not only how to do it in the first place, but what His words mean? Right now i am concerned about Tibby's salvation. If she is saved, then there is no problem. But  she isn't, then my wish for her is that she receive it. If she isn't saved, it's not her fault. It is the teaching of the church that led her to believe she was. As i said before, I know many more catholics who admitted that they weren't saved until after they left the church, than people of any other denomination. There's something wrong here and i care enough about people's souls to search out why. I think there are some things more important than just to be quiet. As Christians, we HAVE to stand up for Him. But Jesus also said that we will be persecuted for it, so I expect that.

[Tibby]

Ah, Tibby, I said that i used to believe the Catholic doctrine three times on page 10. It goes to show me that you either don't read all the posts or you distort my words. You could have read them and saved us some time and trouble.

You also said you where leaving this thread like 10 times already, and you have yet to do that. Yes, you did say you agreed at one time on page 10 a few times. That was the point of my last post, genius. The point of my last post is summed up to: Yes, you have said you agreed with us, after 9-10 page of not agreeing. Why did it take so long? For the love of Pete, Heidi, don’t tell me to read yours post when you don’t bother to read mine. Do me a favor, promise NEVER to take a splinter out of my eye, ok?

I don't believe i've distorted the fact that the pope is called the Holy Father, or the "Hail Mary's" are said after confession, or that the Saints are prayed to, or that the pope is adorned in magnificent attire, or that there are more sacriments than Jesus asked of us, or that we are saved by baptism, or that there are venial and mortal sins, or that there is more hierarchy than is scripturally required, and on and on. Those are facts. None of those things are scriptural. They are man made and some contradict Christ's words, the person who is supposedly head of the church. No, I don't like what the catholics deem as important. I have also said that I'm sure there are some born again Christians in the church. I just don't agree with the doctrine.

I take back what I said, you don’t need to read my post. You need to spend all your extra time reading the scripture and the Catholic Catechism. What is your address? I’ll send you a copy of both.

In order to see what's true, one does have to look at the fact that they might be wrong. That's what i was telling Atheist when i said that all of us Christians were once unbelivers. In order to seek the truth, we had to admit that we could be wrong.

What about creeping salvation?

That is when we found the answers. My feelings about the Catholic church have changed so i don't mind admitting when I am wrong. I would love to be wrong about them now…

Well, in that case, I have some good news for you…

Tibby, you seem to know more about the Catholic church than the bible. Do you even know what a sacriment is? Read Jesus's words very carefully. It is in them that you will find the truth. Not in a church. Out of curiousity, Tibby, when did you get saved?

I was raised in a Christian home, you know the story.

Tibby, ebia, et al - SNIDErs -  ???This is not WWJD

Oh no? He had no problem telling people they were a brood of Viper. He happily throw out those who cheapened his temple with a whip. You want a peaceful role model, go for Gandhi. This is Jesus we are talking about. The man who was so intense about what he believed that he sweat blood. This is the man who never said a word while he was brutally whipped! What would Jesus do? Jesus would die for the worlds sins! DO NOT Tell me to do what Jesus would do until you have died on the cross for the world, ok? If you don’t like this “war” that is taking place, then don’t be a party to it, don’t post on this thread.

Jesus said "I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword". That's not say that He wants us to drum up conflict, but  He had to stand up for what's true, even if it CAUSED conflict. Therefore I think it's imperative that each of us knows what we're fighting for. My biggest concern here is people's salvation. I believe that's done out of love. It might be considered tough love but I think Jesus was the master of tough love. But it is genuine love because it gives us the only lasting love. It causes father to go against son, mother against daughter, etc.

I’m just going to point out this post was a dead post until you got a hold of it, Heidi. You used SPAM of all things to attack their sisters and brothers in Christ. Way to keep the Peace, Heidi!

I personally do not think that the Catholic church emphsizes salvation more than it emphasizes works and deeds. Someone just told me that the Catholic church DISCOURAGES reading the bibe. It reminded me of when i went to the Catholic church. There were no bible in the pews and we were NEVER told to read it. How can one understnad christ's worda and form a [PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM if they don't understand, not only how to do it in the first place, but what His words mean? Right now i am concerned about Tibby's salvation. If she is saved, then there is no problem. But  she isn't, then my wish for her is that she receive it. If she isn't saved, it's not her fault. It is the teaching of the church that led her to believe she was. As i said before, I know many more catholics who admitted that they weren't saved until after they left the church, than people of any other denomination. There's something wrong here and i care enough about people's souls to search out why. I think there are some things more important than just to be quiet. As Christians, we HAVE to stand up for Him. But Jesus also said that we will be persecuted for it, so I expect that.

You call this persecution? Making a Martyr out of your self, uh? You are not standing up for what you believe, you are attacking what WE believe. WE are the ones standing up what we believe. You are not a victim here, you brought this upon your self.

As for the Catholic church Discouraging the bible, I’d suggest you not believe everything someone tells you. Why should there be bibles in the pews? First of my, my church doesn’t have pews, we have linking chairs with on pockets on the back. Where do you want US to keep Bibles? Secondly, It isn’t scriptural for us to have bibles in the pews. It isn’t scriptural for us to have pews! Thirdly, the Preacher READS the bible verse to you, anyways. And Finally, why are you so lazy that you can’t drag your own copy up to church? I don’t know about you, Heidi, but I would rather have my copy at church.

[Heidi]

No, I don't know the story. I got news for you, Tibby, being raised in a Christian home is not going to save you. Read scripture. You have to have a PERSONAL relationship with Christ. That means that there is no intercessor like the church. Jesus said in John, 17:3, "Eternal life is this; that you know the one true God and His son, Jesus Christ." Anyone can know ABOUT Christ, even Osama Bin Laden. But KNOWING Him on a personal level is the only thing that will get you to heaven. Jesus said in Matthew, 7: 21--23, "Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name, and in your name did we not drive our demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will say to them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!" Jesus is talking about "professed" believers who don't KNOW Him. Until you have a heart change, Tibby, you are not born again. It is like night and day.

You need to ask HIM,  not the pope, or a priest, to forgive you for your sins and ask Him into your life. Then when you receive the Holy Spirit, you will be born again. I have sensed from your posts that you are not born again which is why i asked. I could be wrong, but your answer to my question convinces me all the more that you are not. At any rate, what have you got to lose to ask Him?  

[Knox]

Boy, I really think this thread is about worn out.

[Jabez]

do Catholics still use the confession box?If so why?

[Knox]

do Catholics still use the confession box?If so why?

Here is a link to an article from the Catholic Encyclopedia that will answer your question.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm