ALLAH IS NOT GOD...

[Heidi]

Ebia, if the Muslims and the Jews are worshiping the same God, then, as Jesus says; "Because you are unable to understand what i say, you belong to your father, the devil and you want to carry out your father's desires." Since Jesus said that he is the only way to god, then according to him, the afther of anyone who does not worship him is the devil. This makes complete sense to me because who else are we worshiping if we are not worshiping the true God?

[Tibby]

I answered both my friend...

Q) Does it really bother you THAT much?
A) No

Q) Does it really matter all that much?

A) This is a forum, we discuss things here.

Bronzesnake.

Both questions are yes or no questions. You have not answered the last question till you give a yes or no.

If you think this is about Muslins being saved, then none of you have any idea what Ebia is trying to say. Personally, I do not think that Ebia’s argument is really all that hard for you to grasp. Show me one quote of Ebia’s that says Muslims are going to be saved.

[JudgeNot]

Ebia says:

So there aren't three different Gods (there can't be, anyway, there is only one God).  There isn't one correct God and two totally incorrect "God concepts" - that would require a change in God between David's time and that of modern Jews.  There is one God, and at least two groups have some incorrect information about Him.  I have no doubt that the Christian information is the more accurate, but you can't reasonably claim the Muslims worship a different [false] God without claiming that David did too, which I'm sure you wouldn't wish to do.

At last!  You stated your case!  (Did it hurt getting that tooth pulled??)  
Why didn’t you put it that way to begin with?  (If I may quote Reba: “Sheesh!”)  

I am in agreement that Isaac, Ismael and David worshipped the same God figure at some point in history.  
However I think the argument you are finding here is that the decedents of Ismael have bastardized their god figure to the point he no longer resembles the God we worship.  Soooooo – they are actually no longer worshiping the same deity.  In fact I will go out on a limb here and say Islam’s god no longer resembles the God of the Jews (obviously, since Islam believes Jews are less than human).  

One last counter-barb (if I may):

Seems to me there is good precedent in replying to a question with a question;
's good job you never asked Christ a question.

Hopefully you aren't comparing yourself (and your ability to debate to whatever degree that may be) to Jesus.  
I know Jesus.  
You ain't him.  

[JudgeNot]

Islam does NOT regard the Jews as less than human.  The Koran goes as far as to call us all (Muslims, Jews and Christians) "people of the book".

I stand corrected.  You are right - it is the modern-day muslim people that regard Jews as sub-human.
 

[AdeptusLux]

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to say that from my Yahshuan (Christian) viewpoint, I agree allah isn't YHWH (God). YHWH has a Son named Yahshua (Jesus). Muslims say Yahshua isn't the Messiah . Therefore the muslim allah is not YHWH . From what I understand, allah is an ancient "moon god" that contacted mohammed from among several hundred supposed deities they worshipped at that time.

[Tibby]

Actually, the Moon God theory is just an urban legend.

Judgenot, no, you are confusing them with the white Christians who think Jews are sub-human. Don’t worry, I can see how you would confuse the two.

[nChrist]

WHEW!!

Well, whoever they are, they wish to exterminate every living Jew in Israel. I guess they can call themselves whatever they wish and claim beliefs of whatever they wish. It's no longer a secret that their schools all over the world teach that Americans must be exterminated also. The secret is out - all of this is done under the religious banner of Islam and has been for many years.

I'm sure there are various versions of Islam, and some might not wish to kill innocent women and children. Regardless, none of them have Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour, so the argument about Allah is moot. AND, REGARDLESS, they will be coming for Israel and for us - whoever they are. We will either bring it to them, or they will bring it to us. Some won't believe this until a few more things happen, but all will know soon.

Here's the big secret - All Biblical prophesy will come to pass, and nothing can stop it. It will happen, and when it does Christians should be deeply concerned about whether they shared the Good News of Jesus Christ or hid.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

[Sower]

I don't believe that the god that Islam worships is the same God Christians worship.  The differences are too pronounced.  Christians worship Jesus Christ as God.  If you believe the Islam god is the same - show me the similarities.

It goes far beyond that. The "god" of Islam has taken the revealation of the God of the Bible and turned it on it's head. The Koran makes Ishmael the child of promise, not Isaac. It also makes Mohammed the final "Prophet", not Christ. It also denies the Gospel truth that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. According to the Koran, God cannot have a Son, therefore the New Testament is declared to be false. All the OT truths are also falsified.

Lest we forget, the angel "Gabriel" is said to have appeared to Mohammed to bring down the revelation of the Koran, and establish it as God's final word to mankind. The false prophet Joseph Smith also clamied that "Gabriel" came to to him with the new revelation of the book of Mormon, to add to the Bible which seemingly can now inadequate.  Why should we not therefore conclude that Satan came as a false "angel of light", claiming to be Gabriel, in order to controvert the Word of God through Mohammed and Smith?

Scripture says that "in these last days God has spoken unto us by His Son" (Heb. 1:1-3) who is the brightness of God's glory and the express image of His person. The last book in the Bible is "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:1) and the apostle John sealed that book as the end of all revelation (Rev. 22:18,19). These truths are trampled on by the Koran.

IN LIGHT OF ALL THIS, CHRISTIANS SHOULD CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOD OF ISLAM IS SATAN, WHO REJECTS BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON.  HE ALSO WISHES TO SEE EVERY JEW EXTERMINATED. ISLAM IS A RELIGION DIRECTLY OPPOSED TO CHRIST AND THE GOSPEL. THIS IS ANTICHRIST. LET'S MAKE NO MISTAKE.

[Brother Love]

IN LIGHT OF ALL THIS, CHRISTIANS SHOULD CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOD OF ISLAM IS SATAN, WHO REJECTS BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON.  HE ALSO WISHES TO SEE EVERY JEW EXTERMINATED. ISLAM IS A RELIGION DIRECTLY OPPOSED TO CHRIST AND THE GOSPEL. THIS IS ANTICHRIST. LET'S MAKE NO MISTAKE.


AMEN!!!

[JudgeNot]

You're a little vague, there, BL.
Tell us what you REALLY think.
 

[Bronzesnake]

ebia...

 

The above is all true, but the vast majority is in agreement with non-Christian and pre-Christian Jews, so unless you are prepared to claim that David worshiped a different God, then you can't claim Muslims do on this basis.

 That is a truly foolish argument ebia.
The God of David is the Christian God. The Old Testament prophesied that a saviour would come...guess who that would be ebia...ya, it's Jesus. The Old Testament also prophesied that His own ( Jews ) would reject Him, that He would eventually be crucified and be resurrected. The Christian God is the Jewish God, the scriptures prophesied it, and the scriptures are aligned with each other. Muslims do not believe in Jesus as God, so how can they be the same God, unless you don't believe Jesus is God?

The bible wasn't a book when John wrote that - infact almost certainly not all the books that make up the bible had even been written.  Of course, no one here is claiming the Koran to be correct where it disagrees with the bible, so all that is completely irrelevent anyway.

 That is conclusive proof that you haven't got a clue about when the scriptures were or weren't written. That's par for the course with you young lady.

 You really should do some serious studying before you make any more unsubstantiated claims my friend....Or, you could simple ask - there are many biblically educated people here ebia - they can tell you when the scriptures were written, as well as many, many other biblical truths which you seem to be so confused about.


Bronzesnake

[Bronzesnake]

sower...

 

IN LIGHT OF ALL THIS, CHRISTIANS SHOULD CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOD OF ISLAM IS SATAN, WHO REJECTS BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON.  HE ALSO WISHES TO SEE EVERY JEW EXTERMINATED. ISLAM IS A RELIGION DIRECTLY OPPOSED TO CHRIST AND THE GOSPEL. THIS IS ANTICHRIST. LET'S MAKE NO MISTAKE.

Exactly!

 When satan exclaims..."I am God" it won't be the Old or New testament God, which are one in the same. The scriptures depict a"god" who persecutes Christians and Jews, so how can a Christian God hunt down and destroy his own followers? It is going to be the false "Allah" that walks out of the temple and makes his false claim.

 In the following verse, satan makes war with Christians...therefore, he can not be coming as a false Jesus.

 Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 In this verse, God warns the Jews to run to the hills! Apparently this false god also hates Jews!

 Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:  

 Allah is the false god that satan will pretend to be.

Bronzesnake.

[Bronzesnake]

Bronzesnake quote...

The God of David is the Christian God. The Old Testament prophesied that a saviour would come...guess who that would be ebia...ya, it's Jesus. The Old Testament also prophesied that His own ( Jews ) would reject Him, that He would eventually be crucified and be resurrected. The Christian God is the Jewish God, the scriptures prophesied it, and the scriptures are aligned with each other. Muslims do not believe in Jesus as God, so how can they be the same God, unless you don't believe Jesus is God?
 
ebia reply...

So modern, non-christian jews don't worship the same God.  Were the Jews of Christ's time who didn't recognise him worshiping the same God?

 God the Father is the same God ebia, and you know it. Why play these games young lady? Are you really a Christian, or do you simply enjoy an argument? Perhaps you are a J.W., that would explain your difficulty in believing the Old Testament God is the exact same God of the New Testament. This is basic fundamentals here ebia.

Jesus was rejected by the Jews ebia. You do understand the Trinity don't you? I'm not so sure you do, because if you did, you wouldn't be questioning the fact that the Old Testament God is the Christian God. The Muslims reject Jesus, therefore they do not worship the same God - Jesus is God - Muslims don't worship Him. Why can't you grasp that ebia?

Here are some Old Testament scriptures in regard to the Jews rejecting Jesus ebia.

Psalms 69:4  Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal.

Psalm 69:8  I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother's sons;

Isaiah 6:10  Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

Isaiah 29:13  The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.

Isaiah 53:3  He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 63:1-6  Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? "It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save." 2 Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress? 3 "I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. 4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come. 5 I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm worked salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me. 6 I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground."


Bronzesnake Quote...
That is conclusive proof that you haven't got a clue about when the scriptures were or weren't written. That's par for the course with you young lady.

ebia response...

I can't prove it, but the most widely accepted dates for biblical authorship don't put Revelations at the end of the list.  It wasn't put at the end of the canon because it was the last to be written, but because it was the last to be decided to be included, and because that's where it fits.

 Wrong! All you have to do is ask ebia, you don't need to keep guessing. There are many good people here who will gladly set you straight on the dates.

ebia quote...

Thats, still only part of the story - how can "this book" refer to the whole bible, when the whole bible wouldn't be a book for another couple of hundred years?

ebia!   The bible is not just some book that a bunch of dusty old men decided to throw together one day. You haven't got the slightest idea of how soon after Jesus actually lived, and walked the earth that the gospels or Acts were written - it was no where near "couple of hundred years"
There is solid evidence that the gospels were written as early as 40 A.D. and John was one of the original twelve decipals. There is also great evidence that portions of Acts were written within four years after the resurrection!
Just ask ebia, and the proof will be provided!

Bronzesnake Quote...
Allah is the false god that satan will pretend to be.
 
ebia reply...

You've been told before - Allah is just the arabic word for God.  Arabic Christians worship Allah.  If you mean the Muslim idea of God then say so.  Or do you think that all non-English speaking people worship different Gods?

 You know full well what I mean ebia, quit with the childish games my friend.

 As far as your comment..."Or do you think that all non-English speaking people worship different Gods?" I find that offensive, as it implies racism. If anyone worships any god besides the Judeo/Christian God, then they don't worship the same God. Why is this so difficult for you to get a grip of ebia?

Bronzesnake.

[Sower]

ebia...

 

The above is all true, but the vast majority is in agreement with non-Christian and pre-Christian Jews, so unless you are prepared to claim that David worshiped a different God, then you can't claim Muslims do on this basis.

 That is a truly foolish argument ebia.

Ebia is simply trying to pick a fight for the sake of doing so. So you're right. Her arguments are foolish, and her attitude leaves much to be desired. Ebia, I could show you chapter and verse in the Koran to back up everything stated, but won't waste my time trying to convince you. Those with discernment know the truth.

[Bronzesnake]

ebia...

 If the Islamic God and the Christian God are one and the same, then why don't you prove it by denying Jesus as God, and only worship as a Muslim. After all, if they are the same you won't have to worry about losing your eternal salvation right ebia. You better go out right now and buy a prayer carpet, oh ya, don't forget to face Mecca when you pray to Allah, that's important.

ebia quote...

I'm just trying to get a consistant straight answer out of you.  The Muslim concept of God, and the "non-Christian" Jewish concept of God are virtually identical (if anything, the Muslim concept is closer to the Christian one than the Jewish one is), yet you accept that the Jewish God is the same as the Christian God, and insist that Muslim God is different.  That is simply not consistant.  Perhaps if you actually answered these questions with straight answer:

 I can no longer take you with any degree of seriousness ebia. I'm convinced you are not Christian, and you are here strictly as an antagonist. Your quote (above) has exposed you as a fake my friend.

 You had me going for a while there though.

You will not lure me in again, but I'm sure you'll try.

Bye...

Bronzesnake.