Mark of the Beast Technology here!

[Jesusinme]

Hi Folks this is certainly a good topic for discussion.
This has bothered me for years. I believe thats a serious threat to Christians. Do you think this technology will be forced on unwilling citizens?

 I hope I am not flamed for this but I have believed for a long time that walmart is part of this whole big plan. It has put untold numbers companies out of business. It destroys the small business owner and ultimately we will have no choices where to buy anything!
It will be a lot easier to control citizen buying if there are only a certain number of corporations.

That has been going on for hundreds of years my friend. There are a lot more aggressive companies than Wallmart.
Maybe you should just get another job. (just kidding - sorry, I had to do it)

As far as your question..."Do you think this technology will be forced on unwilling citizens?" The Bible says saved Christians will be raptured (you may or may not agree with the rapture) long before the mark of the beast comes into effect. Those who accept the mark "willingly" are doomed to Hell. Those who refuse the mark, are beheaded.

Bronzesnake

Hahahaha Bronzesnake
seriously though I believe in the rapture but ya know what that is but a scant number 144,000 I love the Lord, but I feel not as worthy as some I know, and probably many more I don't
So I guess...................Off With My Head

[JudgeNot]

Bronzesnake said:

I can't find a posts where the antichrist takes his own mark.

2nd Timothy said:

I must have missed the post where the Antichrist would take his own mark

As how I got the impression the antichrist would take his own mark, DreamWeaver said: “As I reported in another thread, about a month ago, Prince Charles already has a chip inbedded.”   Then Bronzesnake said in the followup post: “Charles isn't a Jew, how can he be the antichrist?”

That exchange is the basis for both of my questions.  

PS: - it seems I got the impression that the anitchrist would be of Romanic descent from Hal Lindsey's 'Late Great Planet Earth' - I'm still trying to pin that one down - forgive me my memory losses - that happens to us ol'-farts.  

[Evangelist]

Also; I was taught that the antichrist (not just any antichrist – there are many – but THE antichrist) would be of Romanic descent.  I read here that he will be a Jew.  Can a Jew be of Romanic descent?

Pay close attention to:
Dan 11:24   He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

This is another description of the anti-christ....notice the reference to "do which his fathers have not done, nor his father's fathers...". Also, the first line about entering peaceable upon the "fattest" places is a reference about being able to enter into areas that are reserved for "high-ranking" Jews ONLY.

If you look carefully at Jewish history, you'll notice that even though many of the kings were abominable and turned against God, not once did any of them "scatter (the people) among the prey...", or intentionally turn the Hebrews over to another country or people for destruction.

I vote for the a/c being Jewish, and for the false prophet to be a reconstituted "high priest" in the rebuilt temple.

[Bronzesnake]

Also; I was taught that the antichrist (not just any antichrist – there are many – but THE antichrist) would be of Romanic descent.  I read here that he will be a Jew.  Can a Jew be of Romanic descent?

Pay close attention to:
Dan 11:24   He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

This is another description of the anti-christ....notice the reference to "do which his fathers have not done, nor his father's fathers...". Also, the first line about entering peaceable upon the "fattest" places is a reference about being able to enter into areas that are reserved for "high-ranking" Jews ONLY.

If you look carefully at Jewish history, you'll notice that even though many of the kings were abominable and turned against God, not once did any of them "scatter (the people) among the prey...", or intentionally turn the Hebrews over to another country or people for destruction.

I vote for the a/c being Jewish, and for the false prophet to be a reconstituted "high priest" in the rebuilt temple.

 You do, of course know where the Islamic faith had it's beginnings?

Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.  

Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.  

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Gen 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

 The antichrist will be of Jewish descent. However, that doesn't mean he will show himself as Jesus.

 Consider the following two verses...

  In the following verse, satan makes war with Christians...therefore, he can not be coming as a false Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

In this verse, God warns the Jews to run to the hills! Apparently this false god also hates Jews!

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 These two verses seem to rule out the antichrist appearing as Jesus. The idea that he could appear as the Islamic "Allah" fits much better. He is of the proper decent, and we all know what the Islamic attitude is toward Jews and Christians.

Bronzesnake.

[Bronzesnake]

Hi Folks this is certainly a good topic for discussion.
This has bothered me for years. I believe thats a serious threat to Christians. Do you think this technology will be forced on unwilling citizens?

 I hope I am not flamed for this but I have believed for a long time that walmart is part of this whole big plan. It has put untold numbers companies out of business. It destroys the small business owner and ultimately we will have no choices where to buy anything!
It will be a lot easier to control citizen buying if there are only a certain number of corporations.

That has been going on for hundreds of years my friend. There are a lot more aggressive companies than Wallmart.
Maybe you should just get another job. (just kidding - sorry, I had to do it)

As far as your question..."Do you think this technology will be forced on unwilling citizens?" The Bible says saved Christians will be raptured (you may or may not agree with the rapture) long before the mark of the beast comes into effect. Those who accept the mark "willingly" are doomed to Hell. Those who refuse the mark, are beheaded.

Bronzesnake

Hahahaha Bronzesnake
seriously though I believe in the rapture but ya know what that is but a scant number 144,000 I love the Lord, but I feel not as worthy as some I know, and probably many more I don't
So I guess...................Off With My Head

 Do you think the 144,000 from Revelation are raptured saints?
You must be a J.W. That teaching is not correct my friend. If you read the King James version of Revelation you will see the raptured saints standing in Heaven and their numbers were so great that "no man could number"

  Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;  

 The New World Translation is a false translation, which was proven in a Scottish court, when the leader of the translation team could not translate a simple verse of Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic. Yet, these were the very people in charge of translating the entire N.W.T. Bible.
 All one has to do is cross reference any bible with any of the original ancient manuscripts, in order to know whether the bible he is reading is legitimate or not. The N.W.T has been cross referenced, and has failed miserably.

 This is not intended to be an attack on you personally my friend. However, it is the truth.

Bronzesnake

[Jesusinme]

How embarrasing
 I wanted to edit this post or recall it, but did not know how.
I am new in the Lord and have read revelation. I also did bible study with 7th day adventists. (I am not a JW) I was baptized a catholic, and am Jewish. are you confused yet? I recall in my Bible study with my new church that rapture was a false teaching. I am learning a lot here and appreciate all of you for helping me grow in the Lord.Just to Clarify I belong to Jesus Christ and attend a bible believing church. I am hoping I grow fast in the Lord as we don't seem to have much time these days.
I will still let them lop off my head if it were to come down to it

[Bronzesnake]

How embarrasing
 I wanted to edit this post or recall it, but did not know how.
I am new in the Lord and have read revelation. I also did bible study with 7th day adventists. (I am not a JW) I was baptized a catholic, and am Jewish. are you confused yet? I recall in my Bible study with my new church that rapture was a false teaching. I am learning a lot here and appreciate all of you for helping me grow in the Lord.Just to Clarify I belong to Jesus Christ and attend a bible believing church. I am hoping I grow fast in the Lord as we don't seem to have much time these days.
I will still let them lop off my head if it were to come down to it

Amen my friend.

Bronzesnake

[twobombs]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040714/D83QQBP80.html

Chip Implanted in Mexico Judicial Workers

[Bronzesnake]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040714/D83QQBP80.html

Chip Implanted in Mexico Judicial Workers

 Ya, I saw that on the news last night. The technology is definitely here, and ready to go. A few extra bits of information and we have a chip which replaces cash, has a GPS locator, and all important information, such as drivers license, medical, police records..etc.

Bronzesnake

[Evangelist]

Bronze: (I hesitate to use the acronym   )

These two verses seem to rule out the antichrist appearing as Jesus. The idea that he could appear as the Islamic "Allah" fits much better. He is of the proper decent, and we all know what the Islamic attitude is toward Jews and Christians.

What about the verses from Daniel though? The fact that the Jewish people will be more than accomodating and accepting of the a/c, including allowing him to enter into places reserved only for Jews, would indicate that he couldn't be the "mahdi" the Islamists expect.

On my website I've got an article on Jewish eschatology...might be good to take a look at what the Jews themselves are expecting according to their tradition and teachings.

[Bronzesnake]

Bronze: (I hesitate to use the acronym   )

These two verses seem to rule out the antichrist appearing as Jesus. The idea that he could appear as the Islamic "Allah" fits much better. He is of the proper decent, and we all know what the Islamic attitude is toward Jews and Christians.

What about the verses from Daniel though? The fact that the Jewish people will be more than accomodating and accepting of the a/c, including allowing him to enter into places reserved only for Jews, would indicate that he couldn't be the "mahdi" the Islamists expect.

On my website I've got an article on Jewish eschatology...might be good to take a look at what the Jews themselves are expecting according to their tradition and teachings.

 Hello my friend. Thanks for not useing " the acronym"  

 I assume you are referring to...
 
 Dan 11:24   He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do [that] which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: [yea], and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

That verse doesn't tell us that the Jews were accommodating toward him - as a matter of fact the verses prior to Dan 11:24 seems to tell us he was not honored by the Jews - and that was deceitful - and obtained the kingdom by "flatteries".

Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.  

 Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.  


 Dan 11:23 And after the league [made] with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.  


 Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.  


Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:  but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].

 These verses make it clear that the Jews do not like him - and that he took the kingdom by deceitfull flatteries. "they shall pollute the sanctuary" "they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate"

 "The abomination that maketh desolate" is the beast...satan places his false christ (Allah?) in the temple.

 There are people who know this "god" is from satan, and try to convince others of the truth - and many of them shall be hunted down and murdered...

Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].  


 Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, [many] days.  


 Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

might be good to take a look at what the Jews themselves are expecting according to their tradition and teachings.

If these Jews really understood their bible, they would know that Jesus already came, and died on the cross 2,000 years ago. They would have read that He would be rejected by His own, and that should have made them wise - sadly, it didn't.

Mind you, the first Christians were Jews, who undoubtedly understood the prophecies about the Messiah. The Jews today do not recognize the New Testament, including Revelations - so they won't have a clue as to what's going to happen.

Bronzesnake


 

[JudgeNot]

Guys,
Call me old fashioned (everyone else does) but I can’t go along with implanted chip technology as being “the mark”.  Sure; I guess it could eventually keep you from ‘buying or selling’, but I believe “the mark of the beast” will have more significance – that of visible loyalty.  An implanted chip is not a visible mark.  
I kind of look at it as almost a form of advertisement; you know how so many people now days freely use themselves as walking billboards – “Nike – Just do it!”, “Tommy Hillfinger” (or whatever) and “Old Navy” – there is obviously something “cool” about it.  I tell my daughter over and over that they should be paying her to advertise products rather than her spending $40 on a sweatshirt to advertise for them.  (What an advertising coup that has become!)
I believe the mark will be similar.  If you aren’t readily displaying the mark on your forehead or the back of your hand, the masses will have been brainwashed not to sell to you or buy from you because you aren’t “one of them”.  You aren’t “cool”.  You are a hate monger because you haven’t taken the “love and peace” mark.  
To me, “the mark” has to be an obvious ‘statement’ to everyone you pass on the street.
Thoughts?

[Bronzesnake]

 Hello J.N.

 I think there's good evidence that it's a chip as opposed to a visible mark.
Look at the following verses - notice that the mark is in their right hand, or in their foreheads, as opposed to on their hands or foreheads.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:  


Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 The fact that no man can buy or sell, alludes to the probability that there will be a cashless society at that time. Scanning at the grocery store has been here for several years now, how much of a stretch is it to conceive of an implanted micro chip in our hands being scanned instead of a plastic card?

 Just think of the possible selling points for this...
It would cut down on a load of crime. It would virtually wipe out any black market, as well as tax evasion. No more corner store robberies, no more bank robberies. No running from the law, because they could find a criminal at any time, instantly. Is your child missing? We know exactly where he/she is, and we know who is with her. No more losing your drivers license, or your social insurance number. No more convicted child molesters lying their way into jobs which involve being around children...etc.

Bronzesnake

[twobombs]

Judgenot: Here in Holland at the Baja beachclub in Rotterdam it is
very cool and hip to have the subdermal chip and pay with it....

It is a sign in that you can pay with it; someone without the chip
cannot pay that way and is regarded as not (very) hip.

I will refrain to comment what else goes on in that and other
establishments, but the subdermalchip has landed here alright,
and is becoming more and more polular.

I recon its also the attitude and scene that comes with wearing
such a chip that makes it such a "success" here in Europe.

[Bronzesnake]

Judgenot: Here in Holland at the Baja beachclub in Rotterdam it is
very cool and hip to have the subdermal chip and pay with it....

It is a sign in that you can pay with it; someone without the chip
cannot pay that way and is regarded as not (very) hip.

I will refrain to comment what else goes on in that and other
establishments, but the subdermalchip has landed here alright,
and is becoming more and more polular.

I recon its also the attitude and scene that comes with wearing
such a chip that makes it such a "success" here in Europe.

 Wow! Are you serious T.B.?
That is astonishing, thanks for sharing that.

Bronzesnake.