Opinions please: Forgiven for future sins?

[michael_legna]

michael_legna, so are you saying that if we sin and forget to confess it then we loss salvation?

It is not an issue of forgetting or about losing salvation.

First the issue of forgetting - it is not about remembering it is always an issue of intent.  Sin is not sin unless we intend it to be (that is why running over someone in a car accidentally is not a sin) and it is not repentance if we do not feel repentant.  Therefore to asnwer you question - If we sin and are not repentant of that sin then we risk throwing away the free gift.

Now the issue of losing salvation - Salvation is not something you have presently - it is something that is determined at the end of our life to see if we have truly accept Christ in all His roles (not just as sacrificial lamb but as shepherd too among other roles).  That is why we have to pick up our cross DAILY and follow Him {Luke 9:23}.  We must obey the Gospel {2 Thes 1:8 and 1 Peter 4:17} and endure {Matt 24:13 and Mark 4:17} and how well we did that in properly accepting the free gift can only be determined at the end of our life.

[Evangelist]

Now the issue of losing salvation - Salvation is not something you have presently - it is something that is determined at the end of our life to see if we have truly accept Christ in all His roles (not just as sacrificial lamb but as shepherd too among other roles).  That is why we have to pick up our cross DAILY and follow Him {Luke 9:23}.  We must obey the Gospel {2 Thes 1:8 and 1 Peter 4:17} and endure {Matt 24:13 and Mark 4:17} and how well we did that in properly accepting the free gift can only be determined at the end of our life.

1Jo 1:8   If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9   If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10   If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1Jo 2:12   I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1Jo 5:13   These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have (echo, possess, hold, have....present (now) active (involved with it) indicative (simple statement of fact)  eternal (aionios, eternal, forever, age to age, never ending) life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Observations:

John says that sin is sin, and intent is not part of the determination as to what constitutes sin. That is why ALL men are concluded under sin, as Paul points out in
Rom 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

John also points out that if we confess those sins that we do continually commit, we are forgiving of those sins, and our fellowship with God is restored.

Failure to confess sins breaks fellowship, which means we become rather useless to Him....it does not mean that we are thrown in the trash heap and have the gift of salvation taken away, as Paul makes clear in
1Cr 5:1   It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Cr 5:2   And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Cr 5:3   For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
1Cr 5:4   In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 5:5   To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 John also emphatically points out that the purpose for his writing is so that the readers will KNOW and UNDERSTAND that they have eternal life. By phrasing it in the tenses noted he makes it very clear that it is something they NOW possess, not something they MIGHT possess in the future...if they do this, or that properly.

 And Jesus says,
Jhn 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath (echo, present, active, indicative) everlasting life.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Either a free gift is free (requiring nothing in return), or it is neither free, or a gift.

We pick up our cross daily, because we desire to please Him, not because we have to to hold on to that which He has given....freely.
We obey the Gospel because we desire to please Him, and that Gospel is that HE died for us so that we don't have to....HE delivered those who believe in Him from the consequences of sin (death).
We endure, because we know that HE is with us to strengthen us, to hold us up when we are weak, to lift us up when we fall, and to chastise us with the washing of the water of the Word when we fail.

We love Him....because He FIRST loved us.  

[I_Believe]

But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, "Don't harm yourself, for we are all here!" He called for lights and sprang in, and, fell down trembling before Paul and Silas, and brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." They spoke the word of the Lord to him, and to all who were in his house. He took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes, and was immediately baptized, he and all his household. He brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his household, having believed in God. (Act 16:28-34)

He asked what he must do to be saved. They did not say [hey buddy you can start by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ then you must do this list of things else you won't finish it.]  They said "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved".  "He...rejoiced greatly, with all his household, having believed in God".

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luk 18:10-14)

But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, not by works of righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior; that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This saying is faithful, and concerning these things I desire that you affirm confidently, so that those who have believed God may be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men; (Tit 3:4-8)

Here he tells what our works are not and what they are.

Our works of righteousness are not a means of salvation but they are good and profitable to men.

[michael_legna]

But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, "Don't harm yourself, for we are all here!" He called for lights and sprang in, and, fell down trembling before Paul and Silas, and brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." They spoke the word of the Lord to him, and to all who were in his house. He took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes, and was immediately baptized, he and all his household. He brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his household, having believed in God. (Act 16:28-34)

The question here is of course what constitutes "believing in".  Is it just believing that a carpenter named Jesus lived?  is it believing that He was God?  Is it believing that He died for our sins?  Or do we have to believe His entire message as well?  You seem to imply that simply believing in Him in His role as sacrificial lamb is enough - that we are free to ignore Him in His role as shepherd - that we do not have to follow Him.  I do not accept that limited approach to the meaning of "believing in" Him.

He asked what he must do to be saved. They did not say [hey buddy you can start by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ then you must do this list of things else you won't finish it.]  They said "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved".  "He...rejoiced greatly, with all his household, having believed in God".

Its funny though that when the same question was asked of Jesus that is exactly what he did - thus showing that "believing in" Him meant more than mere mental assent.

Matt 19:16-24  And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.  He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,   Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?   Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.  But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.   Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.   And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Christ does give the man a list - fulfill the commandments - and Christ taught us how - through love we fulfill the spirit of the law.  If faith is all we need then why is harder for a rich man to get to heaven?  Is it harder for a rich man to have faith?  The manb made doctrine of faith alone makes no sense.

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luk 18:10-14)

Look at how salvation was decided in this case - by works.  The one who humbled himself was saved.  Humbling ones self is an act of mortification or works.  It is not an issue of faith.

But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, not by works of righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior; that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This saying is faithful, and concerning these things I desire that you affirm confidently, so that those who have believed God may be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men; (Tit 3:4-8)

Here he tells what our works are not and what they are.

Our works of righteousness are not a means of salvation but they are good and profitable to men.

Yes this verse says works are good and profitable to men but it does not say that is all they are.   You are reading into the verse what you want to see.  Works are not a means to salvation - only grace is that.  Not even faith is a means to salvation, but works and faith together are a means to accepting the free gift.


Above you gave three references that seem on the surface at least to support your position but you pull them out of context with the rest of scripture which clearly shows that works are part of the acceptance of the free gift of salvation.  Three verse references certainly tell only art of the story.  Anyone can find three or even more references within the scriptures to prove almost any doctrine.  The true test is can you find interpretations for the rest of the scriptures so that they too fit your doctrine.

For a start trying interpreting the following verses to fit your doctrine.  

Do the Will of the Father
Matt 7:21, Rom 2:13
Love God and Mankind
Luke 10:25-28, Mat 25:31-46
Keep the Commandments
Mat 19:16-17, Mar 10:17-19, Mat 5:19-29, 1John 3:15, Luke 18:18-22  
Repent   
2Co 7:10
Eat His Body and Drink His Blood
John 6:54  
Be Humble
Matt 5:3, Luke 18:9-14  
Suffer Persecution for Righteousness
Matt 5:10  
Lose Attachment to Our Earthly Life
Matt 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33, John 12:25, Mar 10:28-30  
Follow Christ
John 10:27-28  
Live a Godly Life
2Peter 2:6, Rom 8:1  
Be Converted
Mat 18:3-4, Mat 19:14, James 5:20, 1John 3:20-21  
Emulate the Saints
Rom 11:14  
Obey the Gospel
1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 4:17-18, 2 Thes 1:8, Heb 5:9, James 1:21
Control Our Words
Matt 12:37  
Endure or Continue
Matt 10:22, Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13, 1 Tim 2:15, 1Ti 4:16, Rom 2:7  
Work Out Our Salvation
1 Tim 6:12, 1Ti 6:19, Phi 2:12  
Be Baptized
1 Peter 3:20-21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5     

They all specifically link works to salvation.  If your doctrine is correct and works are not related to salvation then what is the proper interpretation of these verses?

[nChrist]

Evangelist & I_Believe,

AMEN BROTHERS!!

Absolute assurance of Salvation is not something satan wants men to have. Doubt and confusion is what satan wants, and far too many people assist him.

YES!!!, we can have absolute, 100% assurance of Salvation. Jesus Christ paid the price in full on the Cross in our stead. This GIFT is PERFECT and PRICELESS. It is a LOVE GIFT from Almighty God that nobody can earn or pay for. FAITH ALONE in the ONE who shed HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD for us is the only WAY to accept this PERFECT GIFT. The PERFECT GIFT AND SACRIFICE is none other than JESUS CHRIST, OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR. There is no other way.

Here's the beautiful part:

Men are BORN AGAIN and possess SALVATION the very moment that they accept JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOUR.

In that same moment, they are BAPTIZED AND SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Yes, the Seal of the Holy Spirit on the heart of the believer sets this child apart as belonging to Jesus Christ. No power in the universe can separate or remove this child from Jesus Christ. In plain terms, this child is a purchased possession of Jesus Christ and belongs to Jesus Christ forever.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[I_Believe]

michael,

He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." He said to him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder.' 'You shall not commit adultery.' 'You shall not steal.' 'You shall not offer false testimony.' 'Honor your father and mother.' And, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' " The young man said to him, "All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sad, for he was one who had great possessions. Jesus said to his disciples, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty. (Mat 19:17-23)


It is fairly obvious that the context was to show the young man his lack in regards to the Law.  This was not a list for salvation.  The Law was a tutor until the Gospel was fulfilled in Christ.


For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. (Jam 2:10)

Look at how salvation was decided in this case - by works.  The one who humbled himself was saved.  Humbling ones self is an act of mortification or works.  It is not an issue of faith.

You missed the whole point/context of the scripture.  It clearly contrasts works with faith.  One knew Christ was the only way and that he was without strength or merit.  The other thought he has some merit through his works.

[michael_legna]

michael,

He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." He said to him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder.' 'You shall not commit adultery.' 'You shall not steal.' 'You shall not offer false testimony.' 'Honor your father and mother.' And, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' " The young man said to him, "All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sad, for he was one who had great possessions. Jesus said to his disciples, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty. (Mat 19:17-23)


It is fairly obvious that the context was to show the young man his lack in regards to the Law.  This was not a list for salvation.  

A lot of Protestants try to pass this "Jesus was just being sarcastic" interpretation off on those who do not deeply study the scriptures but it does not fly with anyone who knows the rest of the scriptures where Christ tells us again and again to keep His commandments and that the law is not to pass away.

The Law was a tutor until the Gospel was fulfilled in Christ.

Yes and fulfilled by us too.  Christ taught is that we must fulfill the law through love.

Let us look at a parallel account of this event.

Mar 12:32-34  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:   And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.  And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

We see that in this version Christ can in no way be saying what you claim he is saying.  Jesus is plainly saying that if you love God and love your neighbor (thus fulfilling the spirit of the law) you are not far from salvation.  How is that possible if salvation is a free gift?  Because this is how Christ taught us is the proper way to accept the free gift.  

If we are dead to the law then why did Christ tell us that if we love Him keep the commandments of that law?  John 14:15

It is because what we are dead to is the letter of the law not the spirit of the law.

Your version just doesn't hold water.

For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. (Jam 2:10)

Yes this again applies to attempting to legalistically trying to fulfill the letter of the law in an effort to merit salvation.  That is why it refers to points of the law.  But when you fulfill the spirit of the law through love there are no points to try to legalistically follow or literally adhere to, so it is possible to fulfill the spirit of the law without worrying about legalism.

Look at how salvation was decided in this case - by works.  The one who humbled himself was saved.  Humbling ones self is an act of mortification or works.  It is not an issue of faith.

You missed the whole point/context of the scripture.  It clearly contrasts works with faith.  One knew Christ was the only way and that he was without strength or merit.  The other thought he has some merit through his works.

That is an interesting claim but I notice that you never show any analysis of the verse to back up this strange interpretation.  Not that I am surprised by this approach as you always do this - claim something but cannot show it from the verse you say it comes from.  If you want people to accept this interpretation of yours trying showing specific items from within the verse and how they relate to your doctrine.  

I also noticed you just ignored the verses I listed that specifically refer to works relating to salvation.  Why is that?  Is it possible that you cannot fit these verses into your doctrine?

Maybe you missed them and weren't just ignoring God's word.  I will post them again for you just so you have another chance to show us how they fit your doctrine.

Do the Will of the Father
Matt 7:21, Rom 2:13
Love God and Mankind
Luke 10:25-28, Mat 25:31-46
Keep the Commandments
Mat 19:16-17, Mar 10:17-19, Mat 5:19-29, 1John 3:15, Luke 18:18-22  
Repent  
2Co 7:10
Eat His Body and Drink His Blood
John 6:54  
Be Humble
Matt 5:3, Luke 18:9-14  
Suffer Persecution for Righteousness
Matt 5:10  
Lose Attachment to Our Earthly Life
Matt 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33, John 12:25, Mar 10:28-30  
Follow Christ
John 10:27-28  
Live a Godly Life
2Peter 2:6, Rom 8:1  
Be Converted
Mat 18:3-4, Mat 19:14, James 5:20, 1John 3:20-21  
Emulate the Saints
Rom 11:14  
Obey the Gospel
1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 4:17-18, 2 Thes 1:8, Heb 5:9, James 1:21
Control Our Words
Matt 12:37  
Endure or Continue
Matt 10:22, Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13, 1 Tim 2:15, 1Ti 4:16, Rom 2:7  
Work Out Our Salvation
1 Tim 6:12, 1Ti 6:19, Phi 2:12  
Be Baptized
1 Peter 3:20-21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5  

[Brother Love]

michael,

He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." He said to him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder.' 'You shall not commit adultery.' 'You shall not steal.' 'You shall not offer false testimony.' 'Honor your father and mother.' And, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' " The young man said to him, "All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sad, for he was one who had great possessions. Jesus said to his disciples, "Most certainly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty. (Mat 19:17-23)


It is fairly obvious that the context was to show the young man his lack in regards to the Law.  This was not a list for salvation.  

A lot of Protestants try to pass this "Jesus was just being sarcastic" interpretation off on those who do not deeply study the scriptures but it does not fly with anyone who knows the rest of the scriptures where Christ tells us again and again to keep His commandments and that the law is not to pass away.

The Law was a tutor until the Gospel was fulfilled in Christ.

Yes and fulfilled by us too.  Christ taught is that we must fulfill the law through love.

Let us look at a parallel account of this event.

Mar 12:32-34  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:   And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.  And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

We see that in this version Christ can in no way be saying what you claim he is saying.  Jesus is plainly saying that if you love God and love your neighbor (thus fulfilling the spirit of the law) you are not far from salvation.  How is that possible if salvation is a free gift?  Because this is how Christ taught us is the proper way to accept the free gift.  

If we are dead to the law then why did Christ tell us that if we love Him keep the commandments of that law?  John 14:15

It is because what we are dead to is the letter of the law not the spirit of the law.

Your version just doesn't hold water.

For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. (Jam 2:10)

Yes this again applies to attempting to legalistically trying to fulfill the letter of the law in an effort to merit salvation.  That is why it refers to points of the law.  But when you fulfill the spirit of the law through love there are no points to try to legalistically follow or literally adhere to, so it is possible to fulfill the spirit of the law without worrying about legalism.

Look at how salvation was decided in this case - by works.  The one who humbled himself was saved.  Humbling ones self is an act of mortification or works.  It is not an issue of faith.

You missed the whole point/context of the scripture.  It clearly contrasts works with faith.  One knew Christ was the only way and that he was without strength or merit.  The other thought he has some merit through his works.

That is an interesting claim but I notice that you never show any analysis of the verse to back up this strange interpretation.  Not that I am surprised by this approach as you always do this - claim something but cannot show it from the verse you say it comes from.  If you want people to accept this interpretation of yours trying showing specific items from within the verse and how they relate to your doctrine.  

I also noticed you just ignored the verses I listed that specifically refer to works relating to salvation.  Why is that?  Is it possible that you cannot fit these verses into your doctrine?

Maybe you missed them and weren't just ignoring God's word.  I will post them again for you just so you have another chance to show us how they fit your doctrine.

Do the Will of the Father
Matt 7:21, Rom 2:13
Love God and Mankind
Luke 10:25-28, Mat 25:31-46
Keep the Commandments
Mat 19:16-17, Mar 10:17-19, Mat 5:19-29, 1John 3:15, Luke 18:18-22  
Repent  
2Co 7:10
Eat His Body and Drink His Blood
John 6:54  
Be Humble
Matt 5:3, Luke 18:9-14  
Suffer Persecution for Righteousness
Matt 5:10  
Lose Attachment to Our Earthly Life
Matt 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33, John 12:25, Mar 10:28-30  
Follow Christ
John 10:27-28  
Live a Godly Life
2Peter 2:6, Rom 8:1  
Be Converted
Mat 18:3-4, Mat 19:14, James 5:20, 1John 3:20-21  
Emulate the Saints
Rom 11:14  
Obey the Gospel
1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 4:17-18, 2 Thes 1:8, Heb 5:9, James 1:21
Control Our Words
Matt 12:37  
Endure or Continue
Matt 10:22, Matt 24:13, Mark 13:13, 1 Tim 2:15, 1Ti 4:16, Rom 2:7  
Work Out Our Salvation
1 Tim 6:12, 1Ti 6:19, Phi 2:12  
Be Baptized
1 Peter 3:20-21, Mark 16:16, John 3:5  

 

[sincereheart]

Luke 7:46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

[I_Believe]

I also noticed you just ignored the verses I listed that specifically refer to works relating to salvation.  Why is that?  Is it possible that you cannot fit these verses into your doctrine?

So your are slack and don't post the verses or, "show any analysis of the verse to back up this strange interpretation" then act snide that one has not done your work for you or has not refuted a claim that, by using your own standard, you have not even attempted to prove.

There appears to be either a lack of maturity or at least insincere motivations for your posts.

For the benefit of others who may be misled by your post, I will soon post the scripture with other verses that show it's context within other related scripture.  Listing an account and it's parallel in the other Gospels may make your list appear larger but does nothing to prove your point.

[michael_legna]

I also noticed you just ignored the verses I listed that specifically refer to works relating to salvation.  Why is that?  Is it possible that you cannot fit these verses into your doctrine?

So your are slack and don't post the verses or, "show any analysis of the verse to back up this strange interpretation" then act snide that one has not done your work for you or has not refuted a claim that, by using your own standard, you have not even attempted to prove.

Is this just more nonsense to buy you time?  I did not include the verse because I had provided them many times before in the past so I assumed everyone had seen them before AND because it would take more room than one post would accomodate AND I expected you to be an adult enough to look them up for yourself.  But I will begin with my next post to provide the verses in their entirety so everyone can see what all the Protestant apologists on this forum have been ducking up to this point.

While you are right I did not provide an analysis, I did provide an interpretation of each, clearly showing how I see them fitting in my doctrine (which is more than you do most times).  It is much more valuable to have the verse reference and an interpretation (as I did) than the entire verse written out for you with no indication of what the person thinks they are implying by referencing it (as you normally do).  I will gladly provide an analysis once I can get anyone on these forums to even address these verses, as all anyone so far has done is ignore them as I suspected you were doing.

For the benefit of others who may be misled by your post, I will soon post the scripture with other verses that show it's context within other related scripture.  

I await your response, for I am eager to see how you can fit these clear verses into your doctrine of salvation by faith alone.

Listing an account and it's parallel in the other Gospels may make your list appear larger but does nothing to prove your point.

Then you don't understand the point of parallel accounts.  Do you think the Gospels were written by mere men who were not aware of the story already being told so they just repeated it?  NO!  The Gospels were written by the Holy Spirit who knew that the parallel accounts existed and so the purpose behind retelling the story is to not just to repeat it but it is to provide alternative views - to provide more illumination into the meaning - to help us better understand the full impact of an event.  So yes they do add to proving a point.

[michael_legna]

We have to do works to properly accept the gift of salvation.

PART 1

We have to do the will of the Father
Matt 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Rom 2:13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

We have to love God and mankind
Luke 10:25-28  And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?  He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?  And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.  And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Mat 25:31-46  When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:   And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:  And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.   Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:   For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:   Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.   Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

We have to keep the Commandments
Mat 19:16-17  And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
   
Mar 10:17-19  And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?   And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.  Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Mat 5:19-29  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1John 3:15  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Luke 18:18-22  And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?  And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.  Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.  And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.  Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

END OF PART 1

[michael_legna]

We have to do works to properly accept the gift of salvation.

PART 2

We have to repent   
2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

We have to eat His Body and drink His Blood
John 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

We have to be humble
Matt 5:3  Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 18:9-14  And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.  The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.  I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

We have to suffer persecution for righteousness if it comes upon us
Matt 5:10  Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
   
We have to lose attachment to our earthly life
Matt 16:25  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
   
Mark 8:35  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Luke 9:24  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
   
Luke 17:33  Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
   
John 12:25  He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Mar 10:28-30  Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.  And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

We have to follow Christ
John 10:27-28  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

We have to live a Godly Life
2Peter 2:6  And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We have to be converted
Mat 18:3-4  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.  Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:14  But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

James 5:20  Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1John 3:20-21  For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.  Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

END OF PART 2

[michael_legna]

We have to do works to properly accept the gift of salvation.

PART 3

We have to emulate the saints
Rom 11:14  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

We have to obey the Gospel
1 Peter 1:2  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 4:17-18  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 Thes 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Heb 5:9  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

James 1:21  Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

We have to control our words
Matt 12:37  For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

We have to endure or continue
Matt 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
   
Matt 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
   
Mark 13:13  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

1 Tim 2:15  Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

1Ti 4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Rom 2:7  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

We have to work out our salvation
1 Tim 6:12  Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1Ti 6:19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Phi 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

We have to be baptized
1 Peter 3:20-21  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.  The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
   
END OF PART 3
END

[sojourner]

Michael,

Very good effort and explanation. It is very difficult to get the protestant apologist to expain just how the texts they use support their view. Most cannot do it. They just repeat the verse as if the verse explains it. Often opposite of many other verses to the contrary. Such as these of 'works righteousness' verses you listed.

Good Luck.