The Truth About God

[Shiro]

Petro:

If you are calling me dishonest, allow me to refer you to a previous post of mine:

Think of the true example of God/Jesus this way:

The fullness of God can be seen as a body.

My hands are quite different from my feet, but they are still me. Just the same, there are differences between God the Father and Jesus Christ, but they are still fully god.

Jesus is still both fully God and fully man (he'd have to be, to pay for all mankind's sin).

I don't deny Jesus's deity, and that excerpt alone should set that fact in stone for you, if anything does at all.

No hate here, I just think you overlooked something.

[Petro]

Petro:

If you are calling me dishonest, allow me to refer you to a previous post of mine:

Think of the true example of God/Jesus this way:

The fullness of God can be seen as a body.

My hands are quite different from my feet, but they are still me. Just the same, there are differences between God the Father and Jesus Christ, but they are still fully god.

Jesus is still both fully God and fully man (he'd have to be, to pay for all mankind's sin).

I don't deny Jesus's deity, and that excerpt alone should set that fact in stone for you, if anything does at all.

No hate here, I just think you overlooked something.

shiro,

My apologies, I had to go back, and re read your previous post, I see, my mistake, !=, makes me unacquainted with  programing, I see what you meant.

Anyhow I am glad you have come to the living God, and recognize only what God can make men see and understand.

A Christiansunite forums member mailed me a JW, greek interlinear, and it is a fine tool to draw out the truth of the scriptures, when discussing them with JWs, the watchtower  only  butchered the obvious verses, but there are many verses which have not been touched, they have been very helpful in my ministerty to JWs, I have spoken to quite a few, and have been able to point out the descrepencies, since the Interlinear states, in the prefix, that the NWT is a "word for word" translation of the Greek language.

Their Interlinear is true to any other Greek-English Interlinear, and the fact that it has the NWT in the margins, is what allows for point out the errors,  The best one is 1969 edition, it is a pruple book.

I woulkd be insterested how you came to realize that they were teaching error.

So, I beg your forgiveness, My mistake..

In Christ,

 Petro

[Shiro]

I forget. It's almost like God told me "You know that JW thing? Bad idea. Read your NIV and check out what's wrong with that methodology."

Also, I failed to find the birthday thing, or the xmas thing in the bible, or even *their* bible. Ironically, the biggest recoiling I had to JW-ism was because of the whole birthday/xmas thing, even before the idea to contrast the JW thing with the bible.

[Allinall]

I strongly disagree with KJV-only theology, but I'm sure we're all in agreement that the NWT != a good bible translation.

Shiro,

Have you tried the ESV?  It is quickly becoming my favorite.  As for disagreeing with the KJV-only mindset...AMEN brother!  

[AngelicMan]

To All,
God became Man and Man became God in one Person. That Jehovah God became Man, and Man became God in one Person, that Jehovah the Creator of the universe descended and assumed a Human that He might redeem and save men, and that the Lord by the acts of redemption united Himself to the Father, and the Father united Himself to Him, thus reciprocally and mutually.

From that reciprocal union it is very evident that God became Man and Man became God in one Person; and from the union of the two as being a union like that of soul and body, the same conclusion follows.

That this is in accordance with the faith of the church at this day, as derived from the Athanasian Creed, may be seen above; that it is also in accordance with the faith of the Evangelical churches may be seen in that chief of their orthodox books, called the Formula Concordi where it is firmly established, both from Sacred Scripture and from the Fathers, as also by rational arguments, that the human nature of Christ was exalted to Divine majesty, omnipotence and omnipresence, and that in Christ Man is God, and God is Man.

 Moreover, it has been shown in this present chapter that Jehovah God as to His Human is called in the Word "Jehovah," "Jehovah God," "Jehovah of Hosts," and "the God of Israel." Therefore Paul says:
 That in Jesus Christ dwelleth all the fullness of Divinity bodily (Col. 2:9).
 
And John:
That Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the true God and eternal life (1 John 5:20).

That "the Son of God" means strictly His Human may be seen above. Furthermore, Jehovah God calls both Himself and Him Lord; for we read:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at My right hand (Ps. 110:1).

And in Isaiah:
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; whose name is God, the Father of Eternity (9:6).

The Lord as to His Human is also meant by "the Son" in David:
I will declare the decree, Jehovah said unto me, Thou art My Son, this day I have begotten Thee. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way (Ps. 2:7, 12).

Here no Son from eternity is meant, but the Son born in the world; for this is a prophecy about the Lord who was to come.

Consequently it is called a "decree" which Jehovah declared to David; and in the same Psalm it is said previously:
I have anointed my King upon Zion (verse 6);
and further on:
I will give to Him the nations for an inheritance (verse .

Therefore "this day" does not mean from eternity, but in time; for with Jehovah the future is present.
 
Harry

[suzie]

I believe Angelicman is United Pentecostal or  United Apostolic.  These groups deny the doctrine of the Trinity and  believe there is one person in the Godhead who took three consecutive forms or modes. First there was the Father who then became the Son who then became the Holy Spirit. I believe it is called Modal Monarchianism or something along that line.....I dont know a whole lot about them though. Anyone else know?

[Bronzesnake]

AngelicMan....
Why are you avoiding the question?
What Bible are you reading?

Also, who died on the cross?

You call yourself "angelic"...satan was an angel wasn't he?

[GodsWordisTruth]

Sometimes people come to attack the Christian faith and aren't seeking to learn the truth, but rather to promote false teachings. Sometimes people have been deceived by false teachings and want to bring others to what they believe is truth. Modalism is a false teaching.

There is one God who has eternally existed as three persons.

The Father is a Person: We can have fellowship with Him, 1 John 1:3; He knows, Matthew 6:6-8; He teaches, Matthew 16:17; He loves, John 16:27; He is a witness, John 8:18; He has a will, John 5:30.

The Son is a Person: We can have fellowship with Him, 1 John 1:3; He knows, Matthew 11:27; He teaches, John 1:18, Rev. 2:18; He loves, Romans 8:35, Gal. 2:20; He is a witness, John 8:18; He has a will, John 5:30; He can be grieved, John 11:35.

The Holy Spirit is a Person: We can have fellowship with Him, Philippians 2:1, 2 Cor. 13:14; He knows, 1 Cor. 2:11; He teaches, Luke 12:12, 1 Cor. 2:13; He loves, Rom. 15:30; He is a witness, Acts 20:23, Rom. 8:16; He has a will, 1 Cor. 12:11; He can be grieved, Eph. 4:30.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are personally distinct from one another.

They are able to send or be sent by one another(John 3:17, 10:36, 14:23-26, 15:26, 16:7).

Speak to each other:(John 17:1-26, Rom. 8:26-27, Hebrews 1:7-8) and about each other(Matt. 17:5, Mark 1:11, John 8:13-18).

The Father and Son love and honor each other(John 3:35, 5:20, 14:31).

Please read John 1 : 1.

John 1
1   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This verse tells us that not only was the Son God, but He was also with God.

Later Jesus said, in John 20:17, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Clearly the Father is separate from the Son.

Other passages of Scripture confirm that the Father and the Son are not the same Person -- for example, the Son prays to the Father in Matthew 26:39, calls on his Father as a second witness in addition to himself in John 8:16-18, and sits down with his Father on his throne in Revelation 3:21.

The Scriptures also reveal the existence of a third Divine Person: the Holy Spirit. As Jesus spoke with his disciples in John, chapters 14-16, he made it quite clear that the Holy Spirit was not the same Person as himself and not the same Person as the Father. In these chapters, the Holy Spirit is revealed to be personally distinct from the Father and from the Son.

[AngelicMan]

I believe Angelicman is United Pentecostal or  United Apostolic.  These groups deny the doctrine of the Trinity and  believe there is one person in the Godhead who took three consecutive forms or modes. First there was the Father who then became the Son who then became the Holy Spirit. I believe it is called Modal Monarchianism or something along that line.....I dont know a whole lot about them though. Anyone else know?

No. I am not a United Pentecostal or United Apostolic. I am member of the New Church. My church doctrine is base on the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg.

I don't believe the trinity as the way the Christians today believe it.

The Lord Himself is the Holy Spirit:

The Lord promise that the Disciples would receive the Holy Spirit was fulfilled in part after His resurrection when He commissioned His disciples.

"He breathed on them, and said to them,"Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20.22)

The same phrase could be translated, "Receive the Holy Breath." Of course, the breath of Jesus was symbolic of all His words, and of all His activity and life, of His own Spirit.

"The Holy Spirit" is the best translation here, but the point is that the disciples were not to think of the Holy Spirit as the influence of some third Person, but as the influence of Jesus Christ Himself.

When the Lord breathes His Life and Spirit into us it is He Himself who becomes present with us, not some other Person.

So if we ask the question, "Who is the Spirit?" The answer is clear: "The Lord is the Spirit." (2 Corinthians 3.17)

"Who is the Comforter?" "We have a Comforter... Jesus Christ." (1 John 2.1) Like a gentle breeze or a warm breath, Jesus Christ Holy Spirit surrounds and inspires all who are open to receive Him.

The Lord is the Holy Spirit because He alone is Holy
Harry[/b]

[AngelicMan]

 To All,
 The Divine Trinity is in the Lord. Christians were examined in the other life concerning the idea they had of one God, and it was found that they had an idea of three persons, which are three gods.

The Divine Trinity may be conceived  in one Divine Person, and as one God, but not in three Persons . God is one, in Person and in Essence.

The DivineTrinity is in one Divine Person.In the Lord, is the Divine itself, which is called the Father; the Divine Human, which is called the Son, and the Divine proceeding, which is called the Holy Spirit.The Divine Trinity is one . The Divine Trinity in the Lord is acknowledged in heaven.  

The Lord is one with the Father, He is the Divine itself, and the Divine Human. His Divine proceeding is also His Divine in heaven, which is called the Holy Spirit. The Lord is the one and only God.

God doesn't need to be three persons in order to be a Creator, Redeemer and Regenerator.
 
Harry

[GodsWordisTruth]

The Word was with God. That is the Son was with the Father.

(1) The Word was God. The Word had the character and nature of God; what God was, the Word was.

(2) The personal pronoun him is applied to the Word, indicating that the Word is a personal being.

(3) The  Word was with God. The term with indicates that the Word was not the same Person as the One with whom he was, One who is also referred to as God.

John 1:14, 17, and 18 further explain the identity of the Word:

“And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we have beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth . . . . For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

As we read the rest of the first chapter of John’s gospel, it begins to become clear that God in verse 1 is God the Father, and the Word who was with him is God the Son.

Other passages of Scripture confirm that the Father and the Son are not the same Person -- for example, the Son prays to the Father in Matthew 26:39, calls on his Father as a second witness in addition to himself in John 8:16-18, and sits down with his Father on his throne in Revelation 3:21.

The Scriptures also reveal the existence of a third Divine Person: the Holy Spirit. As Jesus spoke with his disciples in John 14-16, he made it quite clear that the Holy Spirit was not the same Person as himself and not the same Person as the Father. In these chapters, the Holy Spirit is revealed to be personally distinct from the Father and from the Son.


John 14:16: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.” Here Jesus says he will ask the Father to give his disciples another Comforter in addition to himself. This passage cannot be an example of the interaction of Jesus’ human nature and his Divine nature because there are three Divine Persons which are referred to.



John 15:26: “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.” This is another passage where three Persons are indicated. “From” is the translation of a Greek word that indicates that the place from which the Spirit of truth starts is alongside of and distinct from the One from whom he was sent -- that he is proceeding from a place at the Father’s side.

the Trinity doctrine affirms the truth of passages like Isaiah 44:24, John 10:30, and John 14:9 . . . and the truth of passages like John 1:1, 17:5, and Hebrews 1:1-9. Once the evidence has been thoroughly examined, it is the Trinity doctrine -- not Modalism -- that best defends the truth of all the Scriptures.

For further explanation, go here:

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a63.htm

May the Lord bless those who study His word---the Bible.

[AngelicMan]

From myself: "And the Word was with God." With God, means, in God,for truth is in good,and good is in truth, not a person with another.

 If you agree that the Father and Son were together when this Gospel by John was written, than the two must be one as soul and body of Jesus Christ.

One Person was seen by the Disciples, not two.The Lord saided in John 14:8, "He that hath seen Me Hath seen the Father." The Father was in the Lord as His soul.

 No one has seen the Father, but the Son who is in the bossom of the Father.

The Father is greater than the Son, meaning the Soul is greater than the Body since it directs it.

(1) The Word was God. The Word had the character and nature of God; what God was, the Word was.

From myself: This means there is only one God in whom is the Creator and the Word.

(2) The personal pronoun him is applied to the Word, indicating that the Word is a personal being.

From my self: There no such thing as a personal saviour. An invention made up by the Protestants, just like the three persons from eternity before creation was an invention by the Catholic church.A man made trinity from la la land.

 There only one Redeemer and Saviour.

Am I not Jehovah, and there is no God else beside Me? A just God and a Savior, there is none beside Me (Isa. 45:21, 22).

I am Jehovah; and beside Me there is no Savior (Isa. 43:11).
 
I am Jehovah thy God, and thou shalt acknowledge no God beside Me and there is no Savior beside Me (Hos. 13:4).

(3) The  Word was with God. The term with indicates that the Word was not the same Person as the One with whom he was, One who is also referred to as God.

From myself: Who ever taught you this has no understanding of the Word. The words "with God" means in God.

It is but little understood in the church why the Lord is called the Word. It is because "the Word" signifies Divine Truth or Divine Wisdom, and the Lord is Divine Truth itself or Divine Wisdom itself.

This is why He is called the Light, of which also it is said that it came into the world. As the Divine Wisdom and the Divine Love make  one in the Lord.

These two, Divine Wisdom and Divine Love have been one in Jehovah God for eternity, it is said, "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." "Life" is Divine love; and "light" is Divine wisdom.

It is this one that is meant by, "In the beginning the Word was with God, and God was the Word." "With God," means in God, for wisdom is in love, and love in wisdom.

The Divine Love and Divine Wisdom in Jehovah God is His Spirit, and the Spirit is what the person is. It does not mean a third person in the Old Testament.

Jehovah God is the Word made flesh, not a second person nor third a person,which you claim is the holy spirit.

 The Prophets spoke the Word from Jehovah God, not from the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit wasn't until Jesus was glorified.
Jesus Christ is Jehovah God the Creator in the Human.

Harry

[AngelicMan]

The Word was with God. That is the Son was with the Father.

Truth is in good,and good is in truth.

Harry

[AngelicMan]

The Word was with God. That is the Son was with the Father.

Truth is in good,and good is in truth. Jehovah God came into this world as Divine Truth, which is the Word,together with Divine Love.

This my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Jehovah God saying I am well please to have a Human Form. He put on this Human so He may redeem mankind. Jehovah God became one of us, a Man, a teacher, a leader of men. In the Word the Jehovah means "love" and the word God means "truth". In the book of Genesis the word God is used, because the six days of creation means six levels of regeneration.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :

Palingenesis \Pal`in*gen"e*sis\, Palingenesy \Pal`in*gen"e*sy\,
n. [Gr. ?; ? again + ? birth: cf. F. paling['e]n['e]sie. See
Genesis.]
1. A new birth; a re-creation; a regeneration; a continued
existence in different manner or form.A new person.Born again.
 
Harry

[AngelicMan]

Read this::::

According to Swedenborg the red dragon in Revelation means the Reformed Church or any other protestant church that accepts three gods and make the Lord two,and accept faith without charity as saving.Rev.12:3.

Rev.12:
Verse 3. "And another sign was seen in heaven," signifies revelation from the Lord concerning those who are against the New Church and its doctrine. "And behold a great red dragon," signifies those in the Church of the Reformed who make God three and the Lord two, and who separate charity from faith, and make faith alone as saving, and not charity at the same time. "Having seven heads," signifies insanity from the truths of the Word falsified and profaned. "And ten horns," signifies much power. "And upon his heads seven diadems," signifies all the truths of the Word falsified and profaned.

Romans 3:28), that "man is justified by faith without the works of the Law," was not rightly understood, because Paul by "the works of the Law" meant the works of the Mosaic law, which was for the Jews; which we also clearly see from his words to Peter; whom he rebuked for judaizing, when yet he knew that "no one is justified by the works of the Law" (Galatians 2:14-16); also, that he distinguishes between the law of faith and the law of works; and between Jews and Gentiles, or circumcision and uncircumcision, meaning by circumcision, Judaism, as everywhere else; and likewise from his summing up with these words:
Do we then abrogate the law through faith? Not so, but we establish the Law (Rom. 3:31).
 
He says all these things in one series (Romans 3:27-31); and he also says in the preceding chapter:
For not the hearers of the Law are justified by God, but the doers of the Law shall be justified (Rom. 3:13).

God will render to every man according to his deeds (Rom. 2:6).
 
We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, whether they be good or evil (2 Cor. 5:10).

Besides many other things from him; from which it is evident that Paul rejects faith without good works, equally with James (2:17-26).

Harry