Public Education

[LadyKay4JC]

Do you know what's staggering to me, Symphany? I read a statistic that stated 80% of Federal employees children attended:

homeschool or private school

academically. What does it say when the government wants private or homeschool/tutors? Sure, there's security reasons, I'm sure... but it IS a thought, is it not?

[ebia]

If the public system has equiped you to homeschool competently, it's done pretty well.  If not, ....

Or it could be a matter of learning from the mistakes of public schooling.  

Doesn't matter - as long as one learns, the system is successful.

If you are able to devote more time to learning to teach each topic than the kids need to spend learning it, then fine.

*snorts*
The joy of learning something new along with your child is priceless! Wonderful for bonding and definitely shows your child that you're never too old to learn!  

Absolutely, school teachers learn from and alongside their classes too, but if one expects one's children to spend, say 20 hours a week learning, then that leaves you to spend, say, 30 hours a week learning.  Plus whatever other learning you may need to do in your life.  If you can afford that, unpaid, that's quite a luxury.

ebia,
Have you ever taught or attended public school in the US?

No - I teach in a Catholic school in Australia, and I've taught in public schools here.

I accept that US public schools have far from a great reputation internationally, but generally not for any of the reasons listed in this thread.

Have you ever homeschooled or been homeschooled?

No, but I've friends who do.

Have you ever been a professional school teacher, or trained as such?

[ebia]

My husband and I were both public schooled.
Because of what we learned in public schools, we have chosen to homeschool for now.

If the public system has equiped you to homeschool competently, it's done pretty well.  If not, ....

The public schools severly lacked in teaching many things. I grew up in the Bay Area, my husband grew up in rural MN.
History classes were ok, for the most part.
Goverment classes we learned to laugh at the right and were taught that the issues of the left were serious.

Hopefully things have moved on.  The early days of "citizenship" as a subject idea were pretty flaky, but I dare say the same was true when science, say, was first taught in schools.

English classes, books like Judy Blume's Wifey (which is a book that condones extra marital affairs) were allowed for book reports.

Allowed, or you were forced to read and agree with it?

Science taught the lies of evolution.

Whether you agree with it's conclusions or not, evolution is good science, and must be taught as such.  Anyone who doens't understand why it's good science certainly isn't qualified to teach science to anyone.

Math classes were ok.

Pleased to hear it.  

Planned Parenthood came to our Health classes on a regular basis.

I wonder how much time was actually spent on it.  Our perceptions can be very misleading as to what we spent our time on at school.

As far as not being qualified to teach certain subjects.....
I didn't know how to potty train a child until I actually had to. We got through potty training between the ages of 2 and 3 so I think we can get through just about anything else.

Which show's how much you know.

I know enough to know that I've been a mom for 18 years and I'm no where near an expert.

Being a mum is no less a difficult job than being a teacher, but it isn't the same job.

Different children learn at different rates. I know my children better than any teacher who has to deal with 20-30 of them at a time.

Of course.  Homeschooling certainly has some advantages, and that one is undeniable.

Then you should do everything in your power to avoid the public schools, private schools, homeschools, etc.
My pastor's wife is a teacher. She went to school to be a music teacher. She teaches music and English, yet English wasn't one of her strong points in college.

What you are good at, and what you can teach well, are not necessarly the same thing.

Nevertheless, I think it is one of the failings here is that teachers commonly teach way outside their area of training.  This is much less common in England.

Even so, she's still only paid to understand and try and keep up to date in two KLAs, not all of them (which you have to do).

She does a lot of learning as she is teaching.

Of course, any teacher does, but learning content as you go (reading one page ahead in the textbook, as we say) isn't the same as trying to teach a subject where you don't understand the issues.  When you teach maths, do you spend as much time reading up on how maths should be taught, what the issues for kids are, etc, as you spend actually teaching it?  And that's supposing that you know the content already.

[ebia]

I think I distrust them because of the bureaucratic aspect--people are just there to do "a job".  It's not a "love"--tho for younger teachers perhaps early on they have ideals.

Whatever a teacher may say, no-one just does it as "a job".  It's too much like hard work to do it if you're not getting something else out of it.

[ollie]

What ever happened to "reading, writing, and arithmetic." The proper teaching responsibility of public schools.

The three "rs", The golden rule and the hickory stick melody.

When did it become the public schools responsibility to teach moral behaviour? Is this a socialist concept?

 

[sincereheart]

from ollie: When did it become the public schools responsibility to teach moral behaviour?

The schools USED to teach morals... Check out any late 1800's and on texts and note the mention of God and right and wrong. It's all through them.

In the area I'm in, the bus picks the kids up at 6:30 a.m. and drops them back off at 4:30 p.m. That's 10 hours that the school system has the children in its care. Do you suggest that morals be ignored in the biggest part of the child's day?

[sincereheart]

from ebia: Doesn't matter - as long as one learns, the system is successful.

Kids learn through homeschooling. So the system is successful.  

Being a mum is no less a difficult job than being a teacher, but it isn't the same job.

Actually, being a mom is harder.  

What you are good at, and what you can teach well, are not necessarly the same thing.

Exactly! And just because a teacher is 'trained' in a certain subject matter, doesn't mean that they're good 'teachers' of the subject matter.

Of course, any teacher does, but learning content as you go (reading one page ahead in the textbook, as we say) isn't the same as trying to teach a subject where you don't understand the issues.  When you teach maths, do you spend as much time reading up on how maths should be taught, what the issues for kids are, etc, as you spend actually teaching it?  And that's supposing that you know the content already.

You don't have to study up on the age levels that you will be teaching ala 'Materials and Methods' style when you KNOW your own child and how your child learns best. Those studies best serve strangers teaching others children. They can give you a general overview but not specifics pertaining to individual differences.

Have you ever been a professional school teacher, or trained as such?

Yes, to both questions. And I must (grudginly) admit that it took me a good full year to get that out of homeschooling!  

So you haven't taught or attended schools in the US? And you haven't homeschooled or been homeschooled?  
 

[ebia]

What ever happened to "reading, writing, and arithmetic." The proper teaching responsibility of public schools.

You should have learned those by the end of primary school (or whatever you call it over there).  Universal secondary education has allowed us to aim a bit higher than that.

When did it become the public schools responsibility to teach moral behaviour?

When kids stopped learning it elsewhere - and to a frightening extent, they have - the schools had to try and take over.

[ebia]

from ebia: Doesn't matter - as long as one learns, the system is successful.

Kids learn through homeschooling. So the system is successful.  

Absolutely.  Just pointing out the inconsistency in "I went to public school and learned nothing, so I'm going to teach my kids at home."

Being a mum is no less a difficult job than being a teacher, but it isn't the same job.

Actually, being a mom is harder.  

Quite possibly.

What you are good at, and what you can teach well, are not necessarly the same thing.

Exactly! And just because a teacher is 'trained' in a certain subject matter, doesn't mean that they're good 'teachers' of the subject matter.

Also true, but the training does weed out some who won't be good teachers.

You don't have to study up on the age levels that you will be teaching ala 'Materials and Methods' style when you KNOW your own child and how your child learns best. Those studies best serve strangers teaching others children. They can give you a general overview but not specifics pertaining to individual differences.

No - you don't need to know as broad a range as a classroom teacher should

Have you ever been a professional school teacher, or trained as such?

Yes, to both questions. And I must (grudginly) admit that it took me a good full year to get that out of homeschooling!  

Unless your training was spectacularly poor, I don't believe you aren't making use of what you learned, even if its just what to avoid.   Either way, that puts you way ahead of most homeschoolers.

I'm still highly skeptical that you can do as well in certain specialist subjects such as maths and science unless you have the appropriate background and understand of how kids learn (and don't learn) those subjects.

So you haven't taught or attended schools in the US? And you haven't homeschooled or been homeschooled?  

's what I said, isn't it?

[Symphony]

Do you know what's staggering to me, Symphany? I read a statistic that stated 80% of Federal employees children attended: Quote:
homeschool or private school
 
academically. What does it say when the government wants private or homeschool/tutors? Sure, there's security reasons, I'm sure... but it IS a thought, is it not?



This really fries my potatoes.    I heard of a big city public school principal who homeschools his own kids.  

And of state employees who homeschool theirs.

It really eats my shorts--if you'll pardon me.

   

I mean, give me a break!  It's like the Jews who trafficked with the Nazis in their Jewish brethren, to the death camps, or the Africans who sold their brethren into the slave trade!

This is where I start getting really profane.

   

[BUTCHA]

In my opinion, 'public' education is largely (not completely, but largely) indoctrination into the liberal-humanist politically correct platform.  As such, they have invaded the home in that they are attempting to teach their versions of morality.

Could you explain that a little more? What moral principles are being taught with which you don't agree?

She doesn't need to know how to put a condom on a cucumber, and our Pastor and I will teach her true morals as God has given us in His written word.

I've never heard of anyone doing that in Health class. It strikes me as being strangely hilarious, if you want to know the truth, as well as more than a little odd.

How old is your daughter, and does she attend public school?

yes in the liberal state of taxachusetts the gay state they teach how to put a condem on a cucumber, and at the high school 3 nights ago i watched with my own eyes at awards cerimonies 4 girls get awards for the best lovers of the gay alliance club they were 9th graders,.

the push libral views on politics and abortion , we reconize all religions customs and holidays except christian , they call it mult cultrial. oh when asked how you can do this the answer is oh we talk about santa clause.

yes all 5 of my children are in public schools , they are strong in thier faith and morals they also know when they are being tought wrong and they defend whats right.believe me we are well known myself and my wife , the school system doesnt like it when they see us, were in thier with issues quite often but are children are very high achievers and well behaved, so we do get the respect.
note to poor for rpivate schools with five children we refuse to have my wife work, she stays home. saveing our money for college

[ebia]

This really fries my potatoes.    I heard of a big city public school principal who homeschools his own kids.  

And of state employees who homeschool theirs.

It really eats my shorts--if you'll pardon me.

Why?

It's perfectly reasonable for a school principal to believe strongly in the availabilty of free public education for all, but knows he can't deliver as good an education for his kids as he can at home.

One doesn't have to take the view that everyone should be homeschooled or everyone should be public schooled.

As far as state employees - why should they even have to agree with every choice the state makes.  If that were a job requirement, NO-ONE could work for the state.

I mean, give me a break!  It's like the Jews who trafficked with the Nazis in their Jewish brethren, to the death camps, or the Africans who sold their brethren into the slave trade!

Maybe they don't see homeschooling as quite as evil as genocide or slavery,

[JudgeNot]

Ollie asked:

When did it become the public schools responsibility to teach moral behaviour?

When Socialists took over.

Is this a socialist concept?

Yup.

[His_child]

ebia- do you know any homeschoolers?

[ebia]

ebia- do you know any homeschoolers?

I believe I've already answered that:

Quote:
Have you ever homeschooled or been homeschooled?

 
No, but I've friends who do.