Kicked out of church!

[Shylynne]

I think it is a disgrace how many pastors and Christians let sin into the church.

If pastors and christians (ahem!) did`nt let sinners into the church the building would be empty!

Let him that is without sin...


A pastor has no God given right to excommunicate a "sinner" regardless of the sin, last time I looked, fear and unbelief were right up there amoung the worst of them just to name a few...a pastor does have the right...and may I say responsibility to SHEPARD the flock...this pastor should have got down on his knees with this couple instead of climbing on his pedestal.
Praying for and with one another, Godly  appealing to two people who live together outside of marriage to separate until the time comes they can be married, urging those living in bondage to sin to repent and turn away from their sin, this is God`s way, and  aught to be the way of every man, woman and child presuming to speak for HIM!

[JudgeNot]

Shylynne said

If pastors and christians (ahem!) did`nt let sinners into the church the building would be empty!

Yep.  Pretty much sums it up.

[Willowbirch]

If pastors and christians (ahem!) did`nt let sinners into the church the building would be empty!

1 John 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

A pastor has no God given right to excommunicate a "sinner" regardless of the sin.

2 Thess. 3:6 "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he receieved of us."
3:14-15 "And if any man not obey our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."
Titus 3:10-11 "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

I don't know the exact events that lead up to Allamedo's "excommunication", and therefore it would be difficult to choose whether I would be on his or the pastor's side. The pastor could certainly have been more encouraging, more loving; but again, I don't know to what extent he tried to encourage and love, so I really can't say.   Any news on your fiance's divorce yet?

[sincereheart]

I'm confused....

You were asked to not even come to that particular church building?  

I can understand if they were talking about you not becoming members of that church building/denomination....

But I don't understand them not wanting you to come and hear The Word.  

[Neo]

As they say in Massachusetts -

"Man, that Pastah was wicked retahded."

I don't agree with his decision at all.

Again, just my two cents.


...Maybe "wicked retahded" is rather harsh, but hey, keep in mind that I have a sense of humor, and I do kid around sometimes.

Last time I was around, people forgot that.  

[allamedo]

I'm confused....

You were asked to not even come to that particular church building?  

I can understand if they were talking about you not becoming members of that church building/denomination....

But I don't understand them not wanting you to come and hear The Word.  

Yes we were asked not to come through the doors. We never asked or tried to become members of the church. So, to answer your question, we are not permitted in the building at all, and that includes our 8 year old daughter too!

[Tibby]

Well, Sapph, different sins call for different reactions. Paul made it clear about what should be done to theses involved in Sexual Immorality. Shylynne, who said the Pastor can’t throw someone out of his church? This happened in the bible many times.

I think you both are looking at it wrong. Biblically, when people commit certain sins over an extended period of time, Paul commanded us to “throw them to Satan.” You are right, the Pastors job is to Sheppard his flock, and if he sees something that could harm his flock, someone committing a sin that could hurt the rest of the church, and does nothing, what then? I don’t think either of you understand the massive pressure a leader has on his shoulder! If you could only be a fly on the wall of your pastors day, I think you would understand. It isn’t all rainbows and sunshine. A true leader had a “burden” for the people, and the word “burden” is the best way to describe it. God has felt right to place these men in over sections of his church, to guild them, lead them, and protect them! If he leads the flock astray, it is his head, and he knows this. A leader, especially a Spiritual one, must do everything in his power to keep his flock safe. That is part of his job. Does he make mistakes, yes. But I would rather a Pastor make a mistake, and kick someone out of a church, then leave them alone, and it end up causing others to stumble.

So, if he had the courage to do what he felt was right, in this politically correct environment, then good on him! If he had the courage to stand up in a day and age when pastors are told to “keep the people happy at any cost” and are told their job is just to “fill the pews” and say “No, I will protect my flock” then I pray we get more pastors like him in the world!

[C C]

   I'm a firm believer that it is GOD that joins couples together, not MAN.  What GOD has joined together, let no man separate.  I think the whole issue about the paperwork involved in the "marriage" and the "separation" and divorce, is simply that, "paperwork."  And all this paperwork has a whole lot of couples fornicating under clean and good man-made paperwork and it doesn't mean that God joined them together.  Legalism is another tactic to put power in the hands of MEN.

And of course, when you don't follow the rules of men, the men that want to be rulers instead of letting God rule, will kick you out of their man-made establishments.

Have it clear in your mind that you are accountable to God.  And that mere men can't kick you out of the body of Christ, even if they can kick you out of their man-made establishments.

I'm not saying what you are doing is right or wrong.  All I'm saying is that you are accountable to God.  You know whether or not you're rationalizing your situation to make your accomodations justified to yourself or to others.  Remember that God is the one who justifies and redeems us.  I do think a whole lot of people that kick people out of church are doing unto others what they think someone needs to do unto them.    In other words, the kickers out of church secretly feel that they themselves need to be kicked out of church.  Alas, maybe you're carrying the cross and paying for someone else's sin.  Christ did that you know.  They're probably secretly guilty of something and think that as long as their pointing the fingers at someone else, no one will notice their own sin.  

Never fear, God is near.  

[C C]

I think Tibby is a  Catholic.  That whole idea of "throwing people out to Satan"   is something establishments of men misinterpret so that they can manipulate and control people.  Tibby, re-read your scripture and this time start from the very beginning of the chapter way before the scripture so you can gather the correct flow of what is being said.  And then you will see that someone interpreted it just the way they wanted it to give power to man-made establishments.

[Tibby]

I think Tibby is a  Catholic.  That whole idea of "throwing people out to Satan"   is something establishments of men misinterpret so that they can manipulate and control people.

Yes, men like Paul.

Tibby, re-read your scripture and this time start from the very beginning of the chapter way before the scripture so you can gather the correct flow of what is being said.  And then you will see that someone interpreted it just the way they wanted it to give power to man-made establishments.

I don't think you even know what verses I'm referring to, do you? You may dislike authority, but it is a bible principle. Pastor, Priests, Deacons, Elders. There is no such thing as a “man-made” establishment in True Christianity. God places our leaders in Authority over us. Hebrews is rather clear about that.

[allamedo]

I'd like to start by thanking everyone for their responses and advice.

I think that maybe I should give you a little more background on what is going on here in this church. We arrived in this community, population 175, nearest city of any size, population 6000, is 70 miles away. So basically we're out in the middle of nowhere.

When we first arrived in town and went to church, we were honest with the Pastor about not being married. He counseled us on what the bible said about it and left it at that. We have filed papers 3 times since then, and next week we are going to file once more. During this past year, and prior to us arriving there have been problems in this church. It has gone from a congregation of over 50, to about a dozen or so. The deacons and elders have resigned also. All this has occured due to arguments with the Pastor, and his refusal to admit that maybe sometimes he is wrong. We had a very serious problem with the Pastor and his wife, regarding gossiping, we went to others in the church and confronted the Pastor and his wife about it. Understand that the people who were spreading the lie were present also, it was obvious, and clear. In front of everyone, including the last deacon left in the church, they denied it and called us liars. The deacon resigned his position the next day. We left and did not return for a few months, but I missed going to church, So I prayed about it, and God led me to write a letter asking the Pastor for forgiveness and I apologized for anything that I might have said to hurt him or his wife. Then last week I went to church with Debie and our daughter Aisha. The Pastors wife said nothing to us and left the church. At the end of the service the Pastor approached me and thanked me for the letter and said it humbled him, but still no apology or acknowlegement of fault, but that's OK, it wasn't the reason for the letter, it was to make things right betwwen God and me.

The next day I was fishing at the local pond and he asked me if he could come over and talk to us. That's when he laid into us. Almost a year, and nothing said, we come back to church and all of a sudden, it's a major issue, and we're out of church. Sorry but it's too much of a coincidence for me. I think that it was personal, and had nothing to do with love or God.

My personal feelings, I haven't said anything until now because I wanted to see how other Christians felt on the issue.

Once again thank you, and may God bless you abundantly.

[JudgeNot]

allamedo;
A blessing is very much appreciated by anyone on the receiving end.  May the Lord be with you and yours and guide you.
JN

[His_child]

allamedo-
I'm totally confused on two issues.

1- If you know fornication is wrong, why do you continue to live together?
(Is the fact that your girlfriend's ex won't give her a divorce a good reason to sin?)

2- If you two have only been together for 3 years, how do you have an 8 year old daughter together?

[allamedo]

allamedo-
I'm totally confused on two issues.

1- If you know fornication is wrong, why do you continue to live together?
(Is the fact that your girlfriend's ex won't give her a divorce a good reason to sin?)

2- If you two have only been together for 3 years, how do you have an 8 year old daughter together?

1 - We have no other options at this time, no one has offered to help, and we cannot afford it.

2 - She is from a previous marriage, her father died, she considers me her dad and I consider her my daughter.

[Shammu]

I think it is a disgrace how many pastors and Christians let sin into the church.

Sin will enter a church whether the pastor likes it or not. People aren't perfect, and if the pastor kicks out Allamedo and his fiancee for their sin, he needs to kick out everyone else in the church who has sin on their head. Meaning, everybody. God looks on all sin equally and hates it all equally; there is no justification for a pastor to kick out a couple for something he thinks is worse than lying or stealing.

This is certainly not to say I agree with what Allamedo has been doing, but if he and his fiancee want to grow closer to God, the pastor has no place nor any reason for coming between that. Allamedo's situation is between himself and God; the pastor has no place to judge this couple.

My advice is to pray, and to try to talk to the pastor again. The pastor needs to realize his sin.

Amen, If sinners weren't allowed into church, the church would be empty.