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The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
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Topic: The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law (Read 7964 times)
Trev
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This space for rent.
Consider this theory about the Sabbath and Sunday
«
Reply #15 on:
June 02, 2004, 11:19:08 PM »
Whether consciously or not, most christians do keep at least nine commandments. Read the fourth commandment then consider the following 2 paragraphs:
Exodus 20:8-11 KJV "8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the
LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day
: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
God issues a strong warning in Revelation 14:7 clarifiying that we should "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." This strong warning is needed because the devil has deceived almost the entire world into accepting his substitute and thus multitudes worship or obey him rather than the Creator. The call to worship in Revelation 14:7 brings us back to the Sabbath Commandment which God set aside specifically for holy purposes
"True to his (Satan's) purpose to exalt himself above God, he undertakes to change that commandment which, among them all, is the fundamental commandment of the law, the one which makes known who the lawgiver is, and contains his signature of royalty. The fourth commanment does this; no other one does. Four others, it is true, contain the word
God
, and three of them the word
Lord
, also. But who is this Lord God of whom they speak? Without the fourth commandment it is impossible to tell, for idolaters of every grade apply these terms to the multitudious objects of their adoration. With the fourth commandment to point out the Author of the decalogue, the claims of every false god are annulled at one stroke. The God who here demands our worship is not any created being, but the One who created all things. The maker of the earth and the sea, the sun and the moon, and all the starry host, the Upholder and Governor of the universe, is the One who claims and who from His position has a right to claim, our supreme regard in preference to every other object. The commandment which makes known these facts is therefore the very one we might suppose that power which designed to exalt itself above God would undertake to change. God gave the Sabbath as a weekly reminder of Himself, and as a memorial of His work in creating the heavens and the earth, a great barrier against heathenism and idolatry. It is the signature and seal against atheism and idolatry."
This is taken from the book
Daniel and the Revelation
, Uriah Smith, Page 613
«
Last Edit: June 03, 2004, 02:16:45 PM by Trev
»
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ollie
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Being born again, .....by the word of God,
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #16 on:
June 03, 2004, 06:43:56 AM »
Quote from: enfant de dieu1 on May 31, 2004, 06:23:50 AM
Quote from: aw on May 18, 2004, 03:51:12 PM
and indeed I have brother. There is NOT one beseeching, injunction, or commandment to the BODY OF CHRIST (CHURCH) to keep a certain day. As I have already stated, we are told NOT to esteem certain days as any more sacred than others. (Gal and Col)
Sabbatariansism is in direct opposition to the teaching of GRACE and bind one to keep all of the law if it is required for salvation/justification and/or blessing. It requires one to perform it all or be guilty of breaking it all. (James)
Sabbath- keeping is CHERRY-PICKING from O.T. Law and causes one to FALL FROM GRACE.
I'm just trying to help, but to the legalists who insist on the law, be my guest but I know that I have been redemmed from the CURSE of the LAW. If you want the CURSE, then enjoy it.
aw
In the bible there are two types of laws mentioned in the New Testmanent...ceremonial law and moral law. Ceremonial law would be ritual matters such circumcision, meat offerings as atonement for sin. Ceremonial obligations such as these were ended at the cross not moral ten commandments.
The ten commandments do not deal with any ceremonial issues, they came straight from his mouth and were edged into stone by God's own finger.
In regards to the various verses you quoted from Galations and Colosians. I strongly recommend you take a more indebt look at the bible.
I believe that this is the text you are referring to In Galations 4:9,10 it states "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage. You observe days and months and seasons and years. "
Also Colossians 2:16,17: "Therefore let no man judge you in food or in drink; or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths.""which are a shadow of things to come but the substance is of Christ."
To understand these verses you have to understand early Jewish customs. In Leviticus 23, it describes the difference between observing the sabbath and participating in Sabbath festivals. These festivals were celebrated on specific sabbaths once a year or on fixed dates of certain months, such as the Passover sabbath on the fourteenth day of the first month. These are the ceremonial laws that were abolished. In Colossians it speaks of the festivals as being "a shadow of things to come". None of the 10 Commandments fit that description instead they are everlasting principles.
Grace and Law
Grace means pardon, love, mercy,kindness. Jesus's grace saved us from eternal condemnation or eternal death.
By faith we accept his grace. What exactly does that mean?
Well in Romans 3:28 is states "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law" Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."
Yes we are saved by grace but grace does not free us from observing God's law.
1 John 3:4 says "Whosever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness."
If the moral laws were abolished then that would be that there is no sin Romans 4:15 states: "For where there is no law there is no transgression. "
It also states in Romans 7:7-14 that law and commandment are "holy", " just" and "good". If you believe that Paul is speaking of abolishing all law then that would mean that the bible is contradicting itself because their are biblical references that up hold the law (moral law) and abolishing laws (ceremonial law) in the New Testament. The 10 commandments are moral laws because they are a vision of God's character.
Everyone of them
reveals to us how we can be more like him. It's sad that you would consider the precious gift he gave to us as a curse.
Galatians 5:13. For, brethren,
ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16. This I say then,
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
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Left Coast
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It's all His work
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #17 on:
June 03, 2004, 03:08:20 PM »
It isn’t that we don’t keep the 4th commandment, we do.
The Sabbath day was changed, by God. Unfortunately our translations of the Greek usually doesn’t show this. You have to look AT the Greek.
Young’s Literal Translation and Green’s Literal Translations are the only translations I know of that get this right.
Compare the King James, (and others), with Young’s.
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the
sabbath
, as it began to dawn toward the
first day of the week
, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (KJV)
Matthew 28:1 ¶ And on the eve of the
sabbaths
, at the dawn, toward the
first of the sabbaths
, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
Strong’s Concordance doesn’t even do this correctly. Strong’s records ‘sabbath’ and ‘day of the week’ as coming from the word ‘sabbaton’. It is actually a derivative of the word sabbaton, ‘sabbatwn’. The ‘wn’ on the end marks it as a plural word.
Here’s how to check it out yourself.
Go to
http://www.olivetree.com/bible/index.html
In the left column click Greek NT.
Next pick “
Interlinear Greek/English New Testament from 1894
”.
Under search type Sabbath. I got 55 entries. You’ll notice that different Greek words are given the same Strong’s number (4521).
Go down to Mathew 28:1. Highlight the Geek text that is used as sabbath, and copy it. Then paste the Greek word into the search. When you paste the Greek it will come out as sabbatwn.
This will show you everywhere that Greek word appears in the new testament. You will get 11 entries.
For some reason the translators were not always faithful to the Greek. Why they translated the exact same Greek word, sabbatwn, two radically different ways in the same sentence is a mystery to me.
Everything in the bible is important, when it is repeated God is emphasizing it. Three times and it shouldn’t be ignored. Even the Lords birth only appears in three of the gospels.
This change in the sabbath was so important that God repeated it in ALL FOUR OF THE GOSPELS!
From the YLT:
Matthew 28:1 ¶ And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the
first of the sabbaths
, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
Mark 16:1 ¶ And the sabbath having past, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James, and Salome, bought spices, that having come, they may anoint him,
Mark 16:2 and early in the morning of the
first of the sabbaths
, , they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,
Luke 23:56 and having turned back, they made ready spices and ointments, and on the sabbath, indeed, they rested, according to the command.
Luke 24:1 ¶ And on the
first of the sabbaths
, , at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain others with them,
John 20:1 ¶ And on the
first of the sabbaths
, , Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb,
The sabbath pointed to the fact that there was nothing that we could contribute to our salvation. There is no work that man could do.
If you are going to follow the 7th day sabbath, you had better follow it completely. The sabbath breaker just picked up a few sticks, God said stone him to death.
Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Numbers 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Numbers 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Numbers 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
In fact you had better follow all the ceremonial laws. The 7th day sabbath like the new moons and other ceremonial laws were shadows pointing to Christ.
Colossians 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Once He went to the cross they were fulfilled and no longer are observed. He did not destroy the law He fulfilled it.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
The 7th day sabbath was a day of rest pointing to Christ. The 1st day sabbath is a day of work, working for God.
It is the day God began the creation, it is the day Jesus rose from the grave. We should be devoting this new sabbath to working for God. Visit the sick and the elderly, worship, teach your children, pray, read the bible, etc.
There are jobs that are necessary, but a Christian should at least try not to work at a job that is not necessary on the sabbath.
We certainly shouldn’t spend the day watching the Super Bowl, going to see the latest undead movie, or drinking with our buddies.
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Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God
, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Trev
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Posts: 16
This space for rent.
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #18 on:
June 05, 2004, 04:34:15 PM »
Quote from: Left Coast on June 03, 2004, 03:08:20 PM
It isn’t that we don’t keep the 4th commandment, we do.
The Sabbath day was changed, by God.
Let us assume this is true for a moment.
Psalms 111:7,8 KJV “7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. 8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.”
If they stand fast
forever
here and in another part, they are abolished or changed, that would be a contradiction wouldn’t it ?
Even God cannot change it. Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Another interesting point is that the commandments were written in stone. Once something is scraped out in stone, you can't change it at a later time. God knew what he was doing when he used his finger to write it in stone. He knew one day we would be wondering if the commandments were changed. This is why he chose to write them in stone so that nobody could change it. For me this is sufficient proof to settle the matter.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 03, 2004, 03:08:20 PM
The 7th day sabbath like the new moons and other ceremonial laws were shadows pointing to Christ.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Another key to understanding what Paul meant by "sabbath days" is given when Paul appears to refer to it as a "shadow" in vs. 17. When compared with the facts that a) the seventh-day Sabbath was instituted before sin and thus before any shadow was necessary and b) in both accounts of the Law it is explicitly given as a memorial (note the word ‘Remember’ in Exodus 20:
and
not a shadow or type of something to come
.17Thus, it would be mis-leading, at best, to refer to the seventh-day Sabbath as a "shadow-sabbath."18 The reasons just given alone, at a minimum, strongly imply that Paul is not talking about the seventh-day Sabbath in vs 16 but rather the ceremonial sabbaths.
When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. Unless you can go back in time and change the day you were born, you birthday will always be on a certain day. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.
Where in the Bible does it mention the first day as a "day of work" ?
It is the day Jesus rose from the dead and the day God began the creation, but God NEVER said to keep it holy.
Romans 1:25 says
“Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and
worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator
, who is blessed for ever. Amen.”
When one worships on the 7th day, one worships the Creator according to the commandment (Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.)
If one worships on any day other than the seventh, then one is not worshipping the Creator.
Further explanation of this point is given on the first post of this page.
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Sparrow
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Why a llama...why not a kangaroo?
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #19 on:
June 05, 2004, 08:04:28 PM »
Trev...Great post.
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JudgeNot
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Posts: 1993
Jesus, remember me... Luke 23:42
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #20 on:
June 05, 2004, 09:14:30 PM »
Acts 15:5-11
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of
the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for
he purified their hearts by faith.
Now then,
why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
Ok, so you must believe that anyone who works on the 7th day should be put to death? Exodus 31:15
Jewish law and Christian law are not the same.
If you keep
part
of the Jewish law, you must keep
all
of the Jewish law.
Do you believe in putting to death anyone who curses their mother or father? Exodus 21:17
Do you believe that adultery is an automatic death sentence? Leviticus 20:10
Do you believe that an act of homosexuality is an automatic death sentence? Leviticus 20:13
Do you believe that all non-believers who blaspheme should be put to death? Deuteronomy 13:5
Do you believe that ‘contempt of court’ should be a death sentence? Deuteronomy 17:12
Do you observe Passover?
Do you regularly sacrifice a calf without blemish? Where and how do you make this sacrifice?
Do you eat food touched by a human hand?
Do you eat anything that crawls on the bottom of the sea?
The list is endless. Where do you begin?
Those bound by the law are truly bound.
As for me, I depend on God's Grace for salvation.
«
Last Edit: June 05, 2004, 09:50:07 PM by JudgeNot
»
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Left Coast
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 339
It's all His work
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #21 on:
June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM »
Because Gods commandment relating to the 7th day sabbath was FULFILLED by Christ we are no longer to keep the 7th day sabbath. We are still to keep the sabbath day holy, we are still keeping Gods commandment. Now it is a 1st day sabbath. As the scripture says, it was the end of the 7th day sabbaths, (Jesus even rested on that last 7th day sabbath), as dawn came on the first of the new sabbaths, (1st day sabbaths).
Did you check out the Greek? I gave you the tools and the directions on how you could do that.
Because the commandment was fulfilled by Christ it does indeed go on forever. Is His work ever going to fail?
Quote
Even God cannot change it. Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Judgenot says it clearly, read the post mine is getting too long.
Are you bound by the law?
Quote
If they stand fast
forever
here and in another part, they are abolished or changed, that would be a contradiction wouldn’t it ?
Do you follow all those commandments?
Quote
Another interesting point is that the commandments were written in stone. Once something is scraped out in stone, you can't change it at a later time. God knew what he was doing when he used his finger to write it in stone. He knew one day we would be wondering if the commandments were changed. This is why he chose to write them in stone so that nobody could change it. For me this is sufficient proof to settle the matter.
Do you have any scripture to support this idea? It could be God had another reason to write it in stone.
The first set of stones were broken.
Some people feel some parts of the bible are to be held above others. Some read the red letter edition of the bible because they feel the words of Jesus are more important.
Some put the 10 commandments above the rest of the bible, claiming because they were written in stone they have a special place. But all scripture as it is written in the original manuscripts comes directly from God. One of the few times I will quote the NIV is on this verse, because the NIV is accurate in this instance:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed
and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Just because the sabbath day is written in stone does not raise it above the rest of the bible.
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death,
written and engraven in stones
, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2 Corinthians 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2 Corinthians 3:11 For if
that which is done away
was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;
which vail is done away in Christ.
Look at verse 14. When you look to those shadows of the old testament the vail remains and you are blinded. That vail and all the shadows were done away when Jesus rose from the grave.
Quote
the seventh-day Sabbath was instituted before sin and thus before any shadow was necessary
No it was not.
When God rested on the 7th day this was not a sabbath day.
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
These verses are important not only for what they say but they are important for what they don’t say. First what it says: “and he rested” God needs to rest!? God is not human, He doesn’t fatigue. He is all powerful. I can’t support the idea God doesn’t tire with a direct statement in the bible, but He is all powerful. Adam and Eve had not yet sinned, so weaknesses like death and fatigue did not exist.
I would like to point out what is not found in these verses. Each of the previous six days ends with the statement: And the evening and the morning were the ____ day.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This statement that concludes each day is not found in relationship to the 7th day. We know the 7th day did come to a conclusion because God gave us the Sun and the moon and the stars to keep track of time.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
So why didn’t He put the closing on the 7th day?
It is because when we are with the Lord the ‘rest’ never ends.
The garden of Eden is a picture of heaven. Adam and Eve were invited to live forever in God’s rest. But you know the story, they had to leave the garden, (God’s Rest).
How do we get back to God’s rest? Only through Jesus. We rest on His work. (we contribute nothing)
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
The 7th day was not called a sabbath day in Genesis. But God did sanctify it, He set it apart.
God introduced the sabbath at Sinai.
Nehemiah 9:9 And didst see the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, and heardest their cry by the Red sea;
Nehemiah 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
Nehemiah 9:14 And
madest known unto them thy holy sabbath
, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
God made the sabbath known to them at that time, it was not known as a sabbath before then. Moses made it clear that this covenant was not with the forefathers.
Deuteronomy 5:2 The LORD our God
made a covenant with us
in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 5:3 The LORD
made not this covenant with our fathers,
but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Sabbath does not mean rest. The sabbath was introduced at Sinai. The whole episode of bringing the people out of Egypt is a picture of salvation.
Egypt is a picture, sort of a parable for the dominion of Satan. If you are an Egyptian don’t freak out. It is not literally the dominion of Satan.
Jesus was not crucified in Egypt and yet we find this reference:
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Egypt is a picture of the dominion of Satan, God established the sabbath in relationship to bringing Israel out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm:
therefore
the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
A sabbath was established at Sinai. A sabbath is a day that is set apart for God. It is to be Holy.
The 7th day sabbath was holy because it pointed to Christ. Christ was made for man. Man was not made for Christ. We find this reflected in the 7th day sabbath.
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
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Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God
, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Trev
Newbie
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Posts: 16
This space for rent.
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #22 on:
June 07, 2004, 12:00:24 AM »
Quote from: JudgeNot on June 05, 2004, 09:14:30 PM
Acts 15:5-11
Ok, so you must believe that anyone who works on the 7th day should be put to death? Exodus 31:15
Jewish law and Christian law are not the same.
If you keep
part
of the Jewish law, you must keep
all
of the Jewish law.
Do you believe in putting to death anyone who curses their mother or father? Exodus 21:17
Do you believe that adultery is an automatic death sentence? Leviticus 20:10
Do you believe that an act of homosexuality is an automatic death sentence? Leviticus 20:13
Do you believe that all non-believers who blaspheme should be put to death? Deuteronomy 13:5
Do you believe that ‘contempt of court’ should be a death sentence? Deuteronomy 17:12
I notice you said you depend on God's grace for salvation. I just want to add, so do I. It is because of His grace we do not have to pay the penalty for sin. Our debt was paid in full on the cross. This is why now we are not put to death.
I also want to stress that this does NOT give me a reason to continue disobeying God. In fact, because I was redeemed I will obey God and his instructions.
Please read the following excerpts for a further explanation taken from
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_questions.asp#8
(emphasis was added)
"Often we hear this argument in an effort to belittle the law of God: "Well, since we are not under the law but under grace, we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments any longer." Is this a valid point? The Bible certainly does say that we are not under the law, but does that imply that we are free from the obligation to obey it? The text is found in Romans 6:14, 15. "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."
How easily we could prevent confusion if we accepted exactly what the Bible says. Paul gives his own explanation of his statement. After stating that we are not under the law but under grace, he asks, "What then?" This simply means, "How are we to understand this?" Then notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, "Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid." In the strongest possible language Paul states that being under grace does not give a license to break the law. Yet this is exactly what millions believe today, and they totally ignore Paul's specific warning.
If being under grace does not exempt us from keeping the law, then what does Paul mean by saying that Christians are not under the law? He gives that answer in Romans 3:19. "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." Here Paul equates being under the law with "being guilty before God." In other words, those who are under the law are guilty of breaking it and are under the condemnation of it. This is why Christians are not under it. They are not breaking it - not guilty and condemned by it. Therefore, they are not under it, but are under the power of grace instead. Later in his argument, Paul points out that the power of grace is greater than the power of sin. This is why he states so emphatically, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Grace overrules the authority of sin, giving power to obey God's law.
This is the effective reason that we are not under the law's guilt and condemnation and also why Paul states that we will not continue to sin.
Suppose a murderer has been sentenced to death in the electric chair. Waiting for the execution the man would truly be under the law in every sense of the word - under the guilt, under the condemnation, under the sentence of death, etc. Just before the execution date the governor reviews the condemned man's case and decides to pardon him. In the light of extenuating circumstances the governor exercises his prerogative and sends a full pardon to the prisoner. Now he is no longer under the law but under grace. The law no longer condemns him. He is considered totally justified as far as the charges of the law are concerned. He is free to walk out of the prison and not a policeman can lay hands upon him. But now that he is under grace and no longer under the law, can we say that he is free to break the law? Indeed not! In fact, that pardoned man will be doubly obligated to obey the law because he has found grace from the governor. In gratitude and love he will be very careful to honor the law of that state which granted him grace. Is that what the Bible says about pardoned sinners? "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31. Here is the most explicit answer to the entire problem. Paul asks if the law is nullified for us just because we have had faith in Christ's saving grace. His answer is that the law is established and reenforced in the life of a grace-saved Christian."
“Only by His strength and indwelling power can the requirements of the law be fulfilled by anyone. Paul said, "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13.”
Also, you may want to note Col 2:14-17. This passage gives some of the practices that have ended.
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Reply #23 on:
June 07, 2004, 10:26:23 AM »
Every time I try to log on, it cuts me off. Its the only site that does that.
In any event, the primary purpose of the post was to point out the differences between LAW and GRACE. Sabbitarianism is LAW, pure and simple. Those who insist that a specific day of the week must be set aside to have "CHURCH" meetings and religious activity are lacking in a complete understanding of grace.
WAs Christ more devoted to the Father on one day than any other?
Sabbitarinaism actually DECREASES church activity. The CARNAL Chrisitian will think they have fulfilled their oblihgations, Go on Sunday and pay a tithe.
The joy of fellowship, praise, worship, devotion, prayer, etc. are to be engaged in and enjoyed 7/7 not 1/7.
Obviously picking Sunday for corporate church activity is good and acceptable but it scores no points with God and should commemoprate Hisd resurrection and ours with Him.
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Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
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Reply #24 on:
June 12, 2004, 12:51:07 AM »
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
Because Gods commandment relating to the 7th day sabbath was FULFILLED by Christ we are no longer to keep the 7th day sabbath.
It seems as if you are interpreting the word "fulfil" (in Matt 5:17) to mean putting an end to the seventh-day sabbath alone, and taking up Sunday as the sabbath. This is indeed strange because it is only one of the commandments.
Why would God "fulfil" only one commandment? Aren't all equally important? The explanation of the word "fulfil" in the text Matthew5:17 is given below. (taken from
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_books_read.asp?ID=1196
)
"What does it mean to fulfill, friends? Some folks think that means to bring it to an end, but notice Matthew 3:15: “And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.” There’s the same word, even in the original, the word “fulfil.” What does it mean? “Fulfil all righteousness” means to obey or fill it up with obedience—that’s what it means. It doesn’t mean to bring to an end. You’ll find that Jesus put emphasis upon the idea that the Law could never be changed or destroyed. In fact He said that whoever would think of breaking even the least of those Ten Commandments and would teach others to do so, would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19.) "
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
As the scripture says, it was the end of the 7th day sabbaths, (Jesus even rested on that last 7th day sabbath), as dawn came on the first of the new sabbaths, (1st day sabbaths).
Did you check out the Greek? I gave you the tools and the directions on how you could do that.
Firstly, I would just like to state that I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to Greek; however, I noticed some inconsistencies in your explanation. This your "corrected" version of Matthew 28:1 "Matthew 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre." The others (Mark 16:1,2 Luke 23:56 & 24:1 John 20:1) are similar to Matthew 28:1.
God and the early writers of the Bible would surely have noticed such an important change. I know there are subtle differences when it comes to a few numbers in different parts of the Bible; however, if something was mistranslated not once, not twice, but FOUR times then surely it cannot be human error. For me this is all the proof I need.
Neither the scriptures nor your explanation does God say that it was "the end of the 7th day sabbath".
From your explanation I notice that sabbatwn means "first of the sabbaths". If this is true the text should read “And on the eve of the first of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.” The logical error here is obvious.
Also if I assume your explanation is correct, then you have to observe Sunday the same way we observe Saturday because these texts speak nothing of a change in sacredness of the day.
Finally God could not have changed it because Malachi 3:6 says “For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” Further explanation of this point is given in Reply #13 on: May 28, 2004, 10:28:41 PM of this same thread.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
Some people feel some parts of the bible are to be held above others. Some read the red letter edition of the bible because they feel the words of Jesus are more important.
I never said that I hold the Ten Commandments above the rest of the Holy Bible. I believe that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Timothy 3:16
By stating the fact that the commandments were engraved in stone, I was merely pointing out the very nature of something written in stone, ie, unchangeable.
For an explanation of 2 Corinthians 3:14-16, please read the following excerpt taken from
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/covenants/cov-right.htm
“A more complete detailed explanation of the Jewish failure is recorded in Romans 9:31-33. "But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. They failed because, instead of trusting wholly in Christ, they trusted in themselves. Theirs was a failure of faith. They depended upon the arm of flesh.
Again, Paul illustrates this failure in 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 as like unto a veil which was upon their faces and which had remained there even unto Paul’s day. The veil which is said to cover their faces symbolized their unbelief, "because only through Christ is it taken away. . . . But when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed." (R.S.V.) The Jews had insisted on trying to keep the law by their own efforts, and had arrived only at self-righteousness. The first blessing of the new covenant then is to take away all self-righteousness.
2. The positive aspect of the new covenant concerning the unity of the law and the gospel makes very specific the work of Christ for man: "I will put my laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people." Heb. 8:10.”
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
The garden of Eden is a picture of heaven. Adam and Eve were invited to live forever in God’s rest. But you know the story, they had to leave the garden, (God’s Rest).
How do we get back to God’s rest? Only through Jesus. We rest on His work. (we contribute nothing)
Can you tell me where Jesus commanded us to “rest on His work.”?
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
When God rested on the 7th day this was not a sabbath day.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
God introduced the sabbath at Sinai.
Did he? Maybe he introduced the term “sabbath” but concept and sacredness were the same from creation. Take the first word of the fourth commandment (entire commandment—Ex 20:8-11)
“Remember” –One can only remember something that has happened BEFORE. Remember what?
“the sabbath day to keep it holy” – here we see that we are to remember the sabbath, and the tense indicates that it is still to be kept holy; however, we find no indication of WHEN the sabbath was given. To answer the question of when, one must read verse 11.
“…and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Here we have a reference to creation, and thus our question is answered. We see that the sabbath was hallowed at creation.
This is proof that the Seventh-day Sabbath is a MEMORIAL (of something which happened at creation), not something which points to Christ.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
A sabbath was established at Sinai. A sabbath is a day that is set apart for God. It is to be Holy.
The 7th day sabbath was holy because it pointed to Christ.
This was disproved.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
Christ was made for man. Man was not made for Christ. We find this reflected in the 7th day sabbath.
This is a very general statement, and one for which I have found no scriptural support. The seventh day sabbath does not reflect that “man was not made for Christ”.
You quoted Mark 2:27 out of context “And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:”
This does not show that “man was not made for Christ”. It shows that “sabbath was made for man.” Also take note it does not say that the sabbath was made for Jews, Israelites, Gentiles, Pharisees or any other creed or race.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
Egypt is a picture, sort of a parable for the dominion of Satan. If you are an Egyptian don’t freak out. It is not literally the dominion of Satan.
Jesus was not crucified in Egypt and yet we find this reference:
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Egypt is a picture of the dominion of Satan, God established the sabbath in relationship to bringing Israel out of Egypt.
Revelation 11:8 says nothing about the sabbath. A full explanation of this passage can be given if requested.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 06, 2004, 12:25:07 AM
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
I’m not exactly sure why you mentioned this text, but I assume you are using it to try to show that the “Lord established the sabbath in relationship to bringing Israel out of Egypt.”
It was proven earlier that the sabbath was not established for this purpose. It was made for man (Mark 2:27).
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Left Coast
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Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
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Reply #25 on:
June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM »
Hi Trev
Quote from: Trev on June 12, 2004, 12:51:07 AM
Why would God "fulfil" only one commandment? Aren't all equally important?
Only one of the commandments is ceremonial in nature. The importance is the same, but the purpose is different.
Morality laws don’t change, but ceremonies have changed.
From Exodus 20.
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. -- Ceremonial in nature. It relates to a ceremony. It is not moral in nature.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
6. Thou shalt not kill. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
8. Thou shalt not steal. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s. -- Moral in nature, won’t change.
The ceremonies were shadows pointing to Christ.
Quote
Finally God could not have changed it because Malachi 3:6 says “For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”
Do you sacrifice animals? Of course not. The animal sacrifices were shadows pointing to Jesus. -- They were ceremonial in nature, they have changed.
By using your definition of Malachi you would still need to sacrifice animals.
God even instituted a change in the punishment of some of the moral laws.
God established a punishment for adultery.
Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
That is Gods commandment.
If someone commits adultery they are to be stoned to death.
Did Jesus follow this commandment?
John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
John 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
You know the story.
He didn’t say yes she must be stoned and some of you must be stoned too, so lets begin.
Jesus was God Himself made flesh, even He would not follow this commandment.
God never changes, but God is not the 10 commandments. He is not the ceremonies.
Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
God said He would end all of these, He ties them all together. And they all ended at the cross.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil <pleroo>.
From Strong’s:
fulfil 51times, fill 19, be full 7,
complete
2, end 2, misc 9;
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2b) to consummate: a number
2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, ( some undertaking)
IT MEANS HE CAME TO FINISH IT. It pointed to Jesus and the work He had to do.
Quote
Can you tell me where Jesus commanded us to “rest on His work.”?
The seventh day sabbath represented the rest that believers have in Christ. We can see this in Hebrews 4:9-11:
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
We can contribute nothing to our salvation. Jesus does everything.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
One of the most popular gospels today is the grace plus works gospel. By Gods grace and your work of believing you get your self saved. This is like the sabbath breaker picking up a few sticks, he was stoned to death. He felt he had to do some work.
The true gospel points out that there is no work we can do. That was the nature of the 7th day sabbath, there was no work we could do.
If you did any work on the 7th day you were to be put to death, pointing to judgment. Believing is also Gods work in us.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God, that ye believe
on him whom he hath sent.
Quote
From your explanation I notice that sabbatwn means "first of the sabbaths". If this is true the text should read “And on the eve of the first of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.” The logical error here is obvious.
Perhaps I wasn’t very clear. I thought maybe you would look it up yourself.
‘Sabbatwn’ is sometimes improperly translated {OF [THE] WEEK}.
{FIRST [DAY]} was translated from ‘mian’, meaning first. ‘Mian’ does not mean first
day
.
I am sure God knew it was being mistranslated, as to why He allowed it, I don’t know for sure. Perhaps since he knew there would be people who would teach the 7th day lie.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
I know it is hard for you to see, so I will try to paraphrase this as you could read it.
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the 7th day
sabbaths <sabbatwn>
, as it began to dawn toward the first of the 1st day
sabbaths <sabbatwn>
, came Mary Magdalene …
No matter what, to take the exact same Greek word, ‘sabbatwn’, and translate it two completely radical different ways, in the same sentence is absolutely WRONG.
I am sure there is a perfectly good word for week in the Greek, sabbatwn isn’t it.
Quote
“Remember” –One can only remember something that has happened BEFORE.
If I tell my kids, “Remember, next week we go to Disney Land.” It isn’t because we have done it before, trust me on that.
Quote
This is proof that the Seventh-day Sabbath is a MEMORIAL (of something which happened at creation), not something which points to Christ.
Of all the days it was the only one God did not put an ending on. It is eternal in nature. Because Christ does all the work we have eternal life. By telling them to remember the sabbath God is telling them to remember Christ who they don’t know or understand about yet.
Just as they did not know or understand how sacrificing an animal could take away their sin.
Deuteronomy 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 5:3 The LORD
made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us
, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
The covenant was not before Sinai, a peak in a mountain range known as Horeb.
Quote
Revelation 11:8 says nothing about the sabbath. A full explanation of this passage can be given if requested.
I didn’t say it did. It does establish a definition for Egypt. All through out the bible God paints pictures, he uses Egypt to symbolize the dominion of Satan. Israel represents those God has chosen to save.
Israel left Egypt not by choice, not by freewill decision, God pulled them out.
They didn’t choose to leave Egypt, they didn’t want to leave Egypt, but they did. It was all Gods work.
Exodus 14:12 Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.
Leaving was not by their work. Their leaving is a picture of salvation.
That is why it is tied to the sabbath.
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that
the LORD thy God brought thee out
thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm:
therefore
the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Sabbath:
*It is tied to a day of rest that does not end.
*It is tied to God doing all the work to save Israel from their evil overlords in Egypt.
*It was a ceremonial law, we don’t follow the ceremonial laws today.
*By the language of the original Greek text it was changed in the scripture.
*Christ came to fulfill, not destroy, the law.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Because it was fulfilled the nature of the sabbath was changed. We are no longer looking for the work of the savior to be done. Now the great commission is to go into all the world and spread the gospel. The new sabbath is a day to still devote to God, it is still Holy. Now it is a day of working for Him.
A final note.
In Acts 3 Peter and John went and preached on the seventh day sabbath, no one became saved.
In Acts 4 the very next day, on the new Sabbath; 5,000 were saved.
Think about it.
John
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Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God
, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Trev
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Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #26 on:
June 13, 2004, 11:54:25 PM »
Hey Left Coast. How is life man?
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the 7th day sabbaths <sabbatwn>, as it began to dawn toward the first of the 1st day sabbaths <sabbatwn>, came Mary Magdalene …
No matter what, to take the exact same Greek word, ‘sabbatwn’, and translate it two completely radical different ways, in the same sentence is absolutely WRONG.
I am sure there is a perfectly good word for week in the Greek, sabbatwn isn’t it.
I searched the Greek Lexicon Dictionary for Strong’s number “4521” found here:
http://www.biblestudytools.net/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?search=4521&version=kjv&type=eng
These are the results I obtained:
“1. The seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
a. the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
b. a single sabbath, sabbath day
2. Seven days, a week”
I want to draw your attention to the second definition, “ Seven days, A WEEK.” Here we see that the word can mean both sabbath and week.
Here is some additional scholarly commentary for you to consider:
J. H. Thayer, in A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, fourth ed., Edinburgh (1901), p. 471,
says: "OYE SABBATWN, the sabbath having just passed, after the sabbath, i.e.
at the early dawn of the first day of the week-(an interpretation absolutely demanded by the added specification TH EPIUFWSK KTL [TH EPIFASK(OUSH)
. .
. , "when it was growing light" etc.]), Mt. xxviii. 1." Also, Zorell-Gr, column 969,
says: "post [after]: OYE SABBATWN Mt 28:1 'post sabbatum' ['after the sabbath']."
Moreover, Bauer, p. 601, says under OYE: "after OYE SABBATWN after the Sabbath Mt
28:1."
I also want to restate that the chances of the translators making an error of this importance, not once, not twice, but FOUR times is impossible.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
If I tell my kids, “Remember, next week we go to Disney Land.” It isn’t because we have done it before, trust me on that.
This is certainly a possible case; however, this implies something to come. As I proved in my last post, this situation does not apply to the fourth commandment. Exodus 20:11 clearly shows that the word “Remember” is being used to refer to something that happened at creation.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. -- Ceremonial in nature. It relates to a ceremony. It is not moral in nature.
Everything you need to answer any questions about this can be found here. It is too long to paste into this post.
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_books_read.asp?ID=654
I sincerely hope you will take a few minutes to check it out.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
The seventh day sabbath represented the rest that believers have in Christ. We can see this in Hebrews 4:9-11:
“The context of Hebrews three and four does not indicate that Paul was trying to convince the Hebrew Christians which day to keep holy. They already knew that. His great burden was for them to enter into a spiritual relationship with Christ-to have an experi-ence of rest from the works of sin. He proved that the children of Israel did not find that true rest because of their lack of faith and disobedience in the wilderness. Although the Greek word for rest, KATAPAUSIS, means simply "cessation from work," the context seems to indicate that the author is talking primarily about finding a spiritual rest in their experience.
Nevertheless, the two chapters definitely tie the spiritual rest to the seventh-day Sabbathkeeping initiated and commanded by God in the beginning. Otherwise, we would not find in verse 4 a direct quote from Genesis 2:2. "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works" (Hebrews 4:4).
The reason for citing God's resting on the Sabbath from His work of creation is revealed only when we analyze verses 9 and 10. Paul says that what remains for God's people is not KATAPAUSIS (a spiritual rest), but SABBATISMAS, meaning a literal keeping of the Sabbath. Then in verse 10 we find the real key which proves beyond a question that the SABBATISMAS rest was not spiritual only, but a cessation from physi-cal work. "For he that is entered into his rest (KATAPAUSIS-spiritual rest), he ALSO (in addition to the spiritual rest) hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS."
The big question about this verse focuses on the works which one ceases from. Are they works of sin? Are they works to obtain salvation? Or are they the physical works from which we cease on the Sabbath? The answer is plainly revealed by the phrase "AS GOD DID FROM HIS." Go back to verse four and we begin to understand why this quote from Genesis is included in Paul's discourse. It is necessary to establish which works God did rest from. God ceased from His physical work of creation on the seventh day, and we are admonished to cease from ours, as He did from His. He did not just enter into a spiritual rest on the seventh day or we might conclude that He was not at spiritual rest on the first six days. The fact is that God is always at spiritual rest. Neither did He have any works of sin or the flesh to cease from. He simply rested on the seventh day from His work of creation, and we are being told by Paul that the ones who truly have received the spiritual rest of salvation will ALSO cease from their physical works on the Sabbath, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.”
This was taken from
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_books_read.asp?ID=654
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
If you did any work on the 7th day you were to be put to death, pointing to judgment. Believing is also Gods work in us.
If you committed adultery you were put to death, yet you say this is a moral law that was not changed.
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
Leaving was not by their work. Their leaving is a picture of salvation.
That is why it is tied to the sabbath.
Deuteronomy 5:14, 15: "But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day."
It was already proven that the seventh day Sabbath is a memorial.
“The key to understanding these two verses rests in the word "servant." God said, "Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt." And in the sentence before this one He reminds them "that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou." In other words, their experience in Egypt as servants would remind them to deal justly with their servants by giving them Sabbath rest.
In similar vein God had commanded, "And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him ... for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." Leviticus 19:33, 34.
It was not unusual for God to hark back to the Egyptian deliverance as an incentive to obey other commandments. In Deuteronomy 24:17, 18, God said, "Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge. ... Thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the Lord thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing."
Neither the command to be just nor to keep the Sabbath was given to memorialize the Exodus, but God told them that His goodness in bringing them out of captivity constituted a strong additional reason for their dealing kindly with their servants on the Sabbath and treating justly the strangers and widows.”
Taken from
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_questions.asp
Quote from: Left Coast on June 12, 2004, 05:19:46 AM
A final note.
In Acts 3 Peter and John went and preached on the seventh day sabbath, no one became saved.
In Acts 4 the very next day, on the new Sabbath; 5,000 were saved.
Think about it.
I quickly read through Acts 3, and I did not find the “seventh day sabbath”. I may have missed it, but it does not matter. The important thing is that people were saved. I don’t think God cares if you are saved on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
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Left Coast
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 339
It's all His work
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #27 on:
June 15, 2004, 04:51:16 PM »
Quote from: Trev on June 13, 2004, 11:54:25 PM
Hey Left Coast. How is life man?
I have been very blessed in my life. All my needs always seem to get met, but I never seem to have any money.
I have always smiled through life.
It helps if you can laugh at yourself.
I have plenty of material to laugh at.
I hope all is well with you, Trev.
Quote
I searched the Greek Lexicon Dictionary for Strong’s number “4521” found here:
http://www.biblestudytools.net/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?search=4521&version=kjv&type=eng
I want to draw your attention to the second definition, “ Seven days, A WEEK.” Here we see that the word can mean both sabbath and week.
I checked out Crosswalk.com their lexicon is weak. The definition comes from Strong’s. Strong’s doesn’t cover ‘sabbatwn’, instead choosing only to cover the root word ‘sabbaton’.
You have to go deeper than that.
I first heard this lesson from an elderly man about 10 years ago. He had a much greater understanding of the Greek than I ever will, even at that time he had been a bible teacher for over 50 years.
I didn’t just take his word for it I checked him out. Thayer notes that the ’wn’ at the end denotes it as a plural word, meaning Sabbaths.
There are some translations that get it right.
---
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898
http://www.blueletterbible.org/versions.html#yng
The Young's Literal Translation was translated by Robert Young, who believed in a strictly literal translation of God's word. This version is of the Bible is in the public domain.
Matthew 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
---
A Literal Translation of the Bible, Jay P. Green, Sr., Copyright 1985.
Matthew 28:1 But late in the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary came to gaze upon the grave.
---
Both Green’s (LITV) and Young’s (Young) can be found at
http://www.olivetree.com/bible/index.html
Both men are respected bible scholars. When they went to do a LITERAL translation they felt they needed to translate sabbatwn as sabbaths, because it is the ACCURATE translation of the word.
Other translations try to bring interpretation into the translation. That is usually fine. The translation should be consistent. Green and Young are consistent, the others are not. I can’t know for sure why the translators got this wrong, but it seems that perhaps they did not understand what God was teaching us.
That older gentleman I learned this from was a good friend of the late Jay Green.
Quote
I also want to restate that the chances of the translators making an error of this importance, not once, not twice, but FOUR times is impossible.
It is not impossible, in fact it should be expected. It is not multiple errors, it is the same error.
Quote
Quote
If I tell my kids, “Remember, next week we go to Disney Land.” It isn’t because we have done it before, trust me on that.
This is certainly a possible case; however, this implies something to come. As I proved in my last post, this situation does not apply to the fourth commandment. Exodus 20:11 clearly shows that the word “Remember” is being used to refer to something that happened at creation.
I thought I had explained that something to come was Christ. You did not prove that it was relating to something that happened at creation.
You misunderstood what God did at creation.
He gave us a rest -- WITH HIM -- at creation. As long as Adam and Eve did not sin they lived in that rest.
God wrote the bible very deliberately. There is a reason why God does not put an ending on the 7th day.
It relates to eternity. It relates to being with eternal God.
When God speaks of the other 6 days he concludes them with:
the evening and the morning were the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th day. There was no conclusion to the 7th day because it points to the rest we have in eternity with God.
Sabbath is pointing to Christ. He IS our rest. That is what we are being taught in Hebrews. Rest = Christ.
We know that the sabbath was not established before Sinai because Moses says so.
Deuteronomy 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 5:3 The LORD
made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us
, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
God did not make the covenant with the fathers, He made it right then and there at Horeb.
Therefore “Remember” can not be remembering it from the past. The nature of the 7th day sabbath was Gods Rest (CHRIST).
God doesn’t get tired. He doesn’t need to rest. We tire because we have a sin cursed body.
Quote
Everything you need to answer any questions about this can be found here. It is too long to paste into this post.
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_books_read.asp?ID=654
I sincerely hope you will take a few minutes to check it out.
I will answer this in a separate post.
Quote
“The context of Hebrews three and four does not indicate that Paul was trying to convince the Hebrew Christians which day to keep holy.
I wasn’t saying that, he was teaching Rest = Christ.
I am not going to address the rest of this poor teaching that you copied and pasted.
What do YOU have to say? What does the BIBLE teach you? You are to be the workman.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
We can look to the teachings of others but we must be the ones that work to separate truth from untruth.
Quote
If you committed adultery you were put to death, yet you say this is a moral law that was not changed.
No I did not say that.
You quoted Malachi 3:6 to try to claim God will not change his laws. By Gods law adultery = death.
If this law had never changed Jesus who had no sin would have been the only person that could have thrown the first stone.
I am not going to go into all the verses, but God was married to National Israel. Israel committed spiritual adultery. By all rights God should have wiped Israel completely out. However the promise was made that the Messiah would come from Israel. So God instituted divorce, He divorced himself from Israel. He changed the law by changing the punishment.
Malachi 3:6 has nothing to do with the law not changing. You want to claim God does not change the Sabbath law, Malachi 3:6 can not be used as a proof of that.
Quote
It was already proven that the seventh day Sabbath is a memorial.
That has not been proven AT ALL.
That is simply how you have been told to understand it.
Quote
“The key to understanding these two verses rests in the word "servant." God said, "Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt." And in the sentence before this one He reminds them "that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou." In other words, their experience in Egypt as servants would remind them to deal justly with their servants by giving them Sabbath rest.
This is a twisted understanding. It comes not by comparing scripture, it comes out of the minds of men, or women. When we interpret scripture out of our own minds we come up with all sorts of wrong doctrine.
We are a servant to sin.
Egypt represents the dominion of Satan, the World.
Revelation 11:8 points out Jesus was crucified in Egypt. This gives us just one key that Egypt is parabolic language for the dominion of Satan.
As you read the bible and see references to Egypt see if you can see the Spiritual lesson God is teaching by viewing Egypt as representing this world of sin.
Until we become saved we lust after sin. We serve it.
When God saves someone He changes them. We become born again. A believer no longer wishes to serve sin because they have been changed.
God does this by giving us a new heart.
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Quote
I quickly read through Acts 3, and I did not find the “seventh day sabbath”.
Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
The Jews do not recognize Jesus, they went to the Temple on the 7th day. Peter and John took the message to them on that day.
The disciples chose to remember the Lord on the 1st day. And to listen to preaching on the 1st day. This was the new sabbath.
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Breaking bread is to remember the Lord.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Paul came to preach on the 1st day.
1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
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Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God
, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Left Coast
Sr. Member
Offline
Posts: 339
It's all His work
Re:The Lord's Day has replaced the Sabbath Law
«
Reply #28 on:
June 15, 2004, 04:59:48 PM »
Quote
Everything you need to answer any questions about this can be found here. It is too long to paste into this post.
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath_books_read.asp?ID=654
I sincerely hope you will take a few minutes to check it out.
I am familiar with much of this. I found their continual use of hyphens to be extremely annoying, (distinc-tions, command-ments, sepa-rated, inter-esting, transgres-sion). Makes it a diffi-
cult
read. But I waded through about half of it.
I’ll cover one point, they are in error throughout.
You really need to be the one that rightly divides the truth. You rely on others to state the truth then you trust them to be right. Your faith is in your organization, put your faith in God instead. Let the bible be your guide, not the twisting of the bible by others.
The reason we have so many different beliefs is people don’t read the bible carefully. When we go a little off the truth we use that to support a little more untruth, then it snowballs.
Until I let the bible lead me to truth I had all sorts of wrong doctrine. I made my doctrine a reproof of scripture, I found truth when I made scripture a reproof of doctrine.
Here is a point made by your web site.
Quote
It is absolutely certain that another law was added 430 years later, and it was in addi-tion to the one Abraham kept so dili-gently. "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect" (Galatians 3:17).
The context of this verse indicates that Paul is talking about the ceremonial law rather than the moral law of the ten commandments. In verse 10, he refers to the curses "which are written in the book of the law." We know this had to be the mosaic law because, as we have already noted, there are no curses recorded in the law written on stone.
Can we find further confirmation that this later law was indeed the law of Moses? The answer rests in Galatians 3:19. "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions till the seed should come to whom the promise was made...." Here we have two significant facts set forth concerning the law which was added. We are told why it was given and also how long it would remain in effect. These two bits of information will be considered very carefully since they contain compelling evidence in the case.
FIRST: WHY WAS IT GIVEN? The verse clearly states that it was "added because of transgressions." This is most revealing because we have just established that "where no law is, there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15). One can't be guilty of trans-gressing a law which does not exist. In this case, one law obviously did exist; and it had been "transgressed," making it necessary to add another law 430 years after God's covenant with Abraham. And since it is recorded that "Abraham obeyed...my laws" (Genesis 26:5), we have to believe that that earlier law, which Abraham observed, was the ten commandments. Moses had not yet been born, and it could not have been his law.
So what must we conclude from this evidence? The ten commandments had been transgressed, making it necessary to add the ceremonial law. Upon reflection, this makes a lot of sense. If a law is made forbidding murder, and it is broken, then another law would have to be enacted to prescribe the penalty or punishment for breaking that first law. We have already established that the ten commandments contained no curses (penalties) or judgments (punishments), but the mosaic law was characterized by those very things.
SECOND: HOW LONG DID THIS "ADDED" LAW REMAIN IN EFFECT? The Scripture says, "Till the seed should come." There is no controversy over the identity of that seed. It is Christ. But do we have evidence that the law which was blotted out and nailed to the cross was indeed the law of Moses? Whichever law it was, it is desig-nated as the "handwriting of ordinances." Nowhere are the ten commandments identi-fied as ordinances. That term is applied to local legal codes which are very narrow and limited, such as "town ordinances" which extend only to the city limits. In comparison, the ten commandments are more like the constitution of the United States.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
This is talking about the sabbath law.
Consider the other 9 commandments.
Was it ever OK to have another God other than Jehovah God?
Was it ever OK to make graven images?
Was it ever OK to the name of the LORD thy God in vain?
Was it ever OK not to honor your parents?
Was it ever OK to kill?
Was it ever OK to commit adultery?
Was it ever OK to steal?
Was it ever OK to bear false witness?
Was it ever OK to covet?
The sabbath law was confirmed in Christ. He fulfilled it.
Moses says the covenant was established at Horeb. That can only relate to the sabbath.
Deuteronomy 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
The covenant was NOT established with the fathers before. It was established 430 years after they first entered Egypt.
The key to Galatians 3:17 is the 430 years.
Exodus 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
Exodus 12:41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
God relates the Exodus with the Sabbath.
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that
the LORD thy God brought thee out
thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm:
therefore
the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Lets put Galatians 3:17 in its context:
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Because the sabbath is a shadow pointing to Christ the curse related to the sabbath law.
Your teachers are trying to invent a curse when the bible says Christ is made a curse for us. In so doing He fulfills the sabbath law.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant,
that was confirmed before of God in Christ
, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Galatians 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Man would transgress Gods commandments. So the sabbath was added AFTER the moral commandments. It was added because we would transgress. It was added because we would need someone to become a curse for us. It was added because someone would need to pay for our sin. Christ is the mediator.
Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
There is no law that can give life. The sabbath law does point to Christ, we can only have life through His work alone and nothing can be contributed by us. Therefore no work could be done on the Sabbath.
One thing they do get right:
Quote
HOW LONG DID THIS "ADDED" LAW REMAIN IN EFFECT? The Scripture says, "Till the seed should come." There is no controversy over the identity of that seed. It is Christ.
But they totally misunderstand which Law.
Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil
It is a great day out today, God Bless
John
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Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God
, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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