Marriage: What does Paul really teach?

[Allinall]

Ya know...it does a fella good to go back and make sure if anyone's responded to his post!  Sorry I haven't responded back yet...  I'm old!  

Anywho...loverofgod, you said:

Obviously, this issue is very controversial and highly debateable and I'm not sure if you're ever going to find the REAL reason for why Christ made exceptions for divorce, but here is my thought: Christ knows just as well as we do that we are sinful beings.

Not to sound beligerent, because it's not meant that way at all, but...where, oh where does it ever say that Jesus gave an exception in the divorce ruling in scripture?  If we put down the passage that Forrest listed:

Matthew 19
6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7  They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8  He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

...we find the answer right there, from Jesus' Own mouth.  "Moses[/b] because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO[/b]."  Who gave the out/exception?  Moses.  Jesus even itterates this to begin with by saying that in the beginning what God has joined together let not man put assunder.  In the beginning, God made man monogamous.  This grated against the Pharisees, so they asked why then did Moses make this exception.  Man made the exception.  Jesus said it was never that way with God.  Yet God took this strictly Jewish understanding and practice and used it in many of His parables - yet, still says, "in the beginning, it was not so."

My point is that Jesus never made any exceptions.  He pointed out the holes in the Pharisees theology in the matter.  He, as He often did, upped the proverbial ante.  It's not the act, it's the thought.  It's not man's exception, it's God's lack thereof.  We, as men, tend to twist this to fit our feeling, rather than understand what God is telling us.  We find exception in what God never accepted.  Yet, even in His non-acceptance, God blesses.  David married a woman he committed adultery with, and murdered her husband.  He put Michal away.  And what does God do?  He blesses that marriage with the birth of Solomon.  God is clear.  He is also merciful and gracious beyond our wildest imaginations.

I can understand His position clearly taught by scripture.  To deny this truth I've shown is to cling to a preconceived notion, but my friends, it's right there in black and white and red.  I can understand that.  I just can't understand His love inspite of my misunderstandings...

[D Sweet]

May I reccommend the careful reading of I Corinthians Chapter 7.  Paul lays out very clearly what marriage is and points out somethings about divorce.  Verses 1 - 16  in particular 17 -ff is more in the way of advise on marriage. I believe this chapter brings a certian clarity to the issue.
Blessings,
David

[GODSGRACE]

Remarriage..Aren't we grateful that God is the God of second chances? That is amazing grace!!!
I'm not the product of a divorce..just one of a suicide. My second husband was divorced. At the time, of his divorce, he wasn't saved. Not to say the divorce doesn't bring it's consequenes, it does big time.
I was saved through the suicide of my 1st husband.
By no means does the Lord favor divorce. I don't believe in it now, because I'm a new creature in Christ, as is my second husband. "As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us"..[Psalm 103:11]
God uses our life lessons as tools to be able to sympathize with those going through similar struggles. How would you know how a person feels without going through similar circumstances? Would I have choosen to go through what I did? Of course not. But God uses it just the same.

[C C]

   I'm going to divorce court today.

I've been separated since 1995, and he has since remarried even though he's still married to me, I never got a divorce, because if I worked on my divorce, my husband would have to be exported because I never finished his paperwork.  And I felt sorry for him.

I've been coming to the conclusion that my husbands real reason for marrying me was he wanted to become a citizen of the united states of america.  That didn't happen through me, he had to marry someone else.

Now, for all the Bible Experts, since my husbands intentions for swindling me into marriage were for his selfish purposes, Who do YOU think joined us together?  Was it God?

If it was God that joined us together, then let no man separate us.  

but if it wasn't God that joined us together, then how can anyone say it was marriage?  By the world's standards it was marriage, but by God's standards I got conned and swindled.  

conning and swindling in the name of marriage, I don't think constitues marriage.

wooing and romancing to get selfish gain, I don't think constitues marriage.

Lying, cheating, stealing to get someone in front of a judge to get them to take your name, i don't think constitutes marriage.

Seeking someone for your personal gratification and your own selfish desires, I don't think that constitues marriage.

If someone wants YOU for their benefit and has no real good intentions toward you that don't invovle his personal or her personal gain, I don't think that constitutes marraige.

Or does selfishness constitute marriage.

If the motives and intentions were bad from day one, then it wasn't God that joined you together, it was the kingdoms of this world.

I don't think Jesus' teaching on marriage refer to if you happen to get conned by a con artist.

So, what MAN joins together CAN doesn't really need to be taken apart, it never was really a marriage.

What do you got to say about that??

I can hear the legalists saying, "It doesn't matter what was in the heart of man, what matters is that you went before a judge commisioned by this world, Now YOU MUST apply Christ's teachings to some contract that Christ wasn't involved in from the beginning."

I disagree.

I might agree with the scriptures, the same way I agree that airconditioning is good.  Yep, air conditioning is good in the summer.  Air conditioning is not so good in the winter.  During the winter, a furnace is required.  Of course there's always going to be people trying to apply things that aren't applicable in a given situation.  

Peace

[Reba]

Justification

[C C]

And that's what Christ does for us.  

[Reba]

We  not Christ.

[C C]

Which is why we don't have to justify ourselves in front of those that decide their the ones responsible for condemning us.

Christ does that for us.

[Reba]

Some folks just dont accept the scriptures to be relevent today.  

[D Sweet]

Candice,
I would, from what I have gleaned from the scripture, that you are the injured party.  It is obvious that this man did not have the right intentions nor spirit.  The fact that he remarried without benefit of legally ending his marriage to you would give the very definite idea that you are dealing with an immoral person, an adulterer if you will.  That is a "deal breaker" and very suitable grounds to divorce.  Then, ask G-d to bring you the G-dly man you need and deserve.  My wife was in a bad situration, began to pray for a man that would love the L-rd as much as she did and two years later, we met and just a year later, were married.  That was 36 years ago.  G-d has provided for us and blessed us in ways un imaginable.
Blessings,
David  

[Aiki Storm]

Thanks for your post Sower.  I have a hard time believing that anyone would disagree with this post.  I mean, it is right out of the Bible!  God breathed.  Inspired by the Holy Spirit!  Some people just seem to pick and choose what they want to believe.  Whatever works for them.    I think Paul's message is pretty clear however.  Like a recent poster said 'It's not rocket science'.

[Sower]

Thanks for your post Sower.  I have a hard time believing that anyone would disagree with this post.  I mean, it is right out of the Bible!  God breathed.  Inspired by the Holy Spirit!  Some people just seem to pick and choose what they want to believe.  Whatever works for them.    I think Paul's message is pretty clear however.  Like a recent poster said 'It's not rocket science'.

Thanks for the encouragement, Aiki. I trust the Lord will help others through it.

[RhondaR]

THE DIVORCE DEBATE

Let's get to the meat of this debate and it's origin, shall we?


In the first-century Jewish world, it was a contentious issue from a religious perspective. The Jewish teachers were split over the grounds for divorce. There were conservative and liberal views.


Some followed the teaching of the rabbi Shammai.

He had said in an interpretation of Old Testament law that divorce was allowable in only one case—that of marital infidelity. He allowed no other reasons for such termination of marriage.


His opponent in the debate over divorce was the rabbi Hillel.

He had died seven or eight years before Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount. No doubt Hillel’s teaching was popular, because he allowed divorce for just about any reason.

Anything about the woman that displeased the man was ground for divorce in Hillel’s opinion.


By His response, Jesus put Himself on the conservative side of the debate.


His purpose, remember, was to show the deeper spiritual implications of the law. He was going to uphold and fulfill the law—to show how it could and should be kept.


So with regard to divorce, He said: “Anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery”


The men were using the Law, which ever teaching - Hillel's teaching rather than  Shammai's   because it left them with and easy excuse to divorce. (Which by the way Shammai's teaching was most definitely the view of Jesus.)



"Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" (Mt.19:3)

In the Old Testament the Mosaic Law allowed divorce for any reason of displeasure concerning indecency:




3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

DEUTERONOMY 24:1 - When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some  uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.


2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.


3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. [/i]

5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.


(Notice that he said, "For the hardness of your heart".


The writ of divorcement could not have been for adultry during Moses days because according to the Law anyone caught in adultry was stoned to death.

Remember the woman brought to Jesus accusing her of adultry - stones in hand?


It was because of the hardness of their heart that Moses wrote them this precept.


So we're not talking about adultry or fornication. We're talking about literally two schools of thought - rabbi Shammai
and/or Hillel. Obviously, many chose the teachings of Hillel.


6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.