High Noon

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

Could you imagine what would have been said and done in 1954 America? Fifty years of moral decline in this country has taken a horrible toll. It appears NOW that it is more important to be politically correct than quote the Holy Bible or stand up and be counted on moral issues. If we are hoping that our politicians are going to do it, I think we can forget it. We have a few little rays of sunshine here and there, but they are wimpy when it comes to right and wrong.

I really think we are looking at a preview of the last days. We can all keep trying and help as many people find Christ as we can.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Symphony]

Yes, bep, "High Noon" is definitely drawing nigh.

After yesterday's MA sup. court decis forcing gay marriage, I'm thinking, I may have to ratchet up my witness, myself, Lord willing.

[Symphony]

Tracts are good.

I'm looking to do the same; to start passing them out, or leaving them.  

I may write my own.  I've got this 'puter, with a printer.

Or, I'm looking at one magazine.  I've already passed it out some.  It has a place you can rubber stamp your name/address/phone number even.  

I'm thinking through this.

I'm thinking I"m going to have to start doing things that are pro-active.  

I may start constructing things deliberately so that gradually the issues become unavoidable.  The apparently message I'm receiving is that most are only too happy to go which ever way the current wind is blowing.  And when you go against that, it is going to come with a price.

Maybe one lesson here might be that our current (living) situation should not be any less painful or difficult than any witness we are providing.  That way, when we do provide the witness, and are persecuted, the persecution is not any different from the situation we just left.

Ideally, we should be persecuted all the time.

[nChrist]

Ideally, we should be persecuted all the time.

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

You just spoke volumes in that sentence. I'm not happy that ADMIN has to spend tons of time dealing with folks trying to attack Christians Unite in dozens of different ways. However, that must mean there are all kinds of things going on at Christians Unite that the devil doesn't like. In that respect, we should give thanks.

You've spoken many times about how some people treat you badly or ignore you because of the moral and Biblical stances you take. Again, that is something to give thanks for. If you are rolling along with the world loving you, that would indicate you are giving the devil a ride and helping him reach his goals. Brother, give thanks when the darkness of this world doesn't like you. It would be nice to have some local brothers and sisters in Christ to stand with you. If that's not to be, God will give you the strength to do HIS will and purpose.

Brother, I'm praying for you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[onestarfisher]

Well, I just found this thread. I haven't been to the forum for awhile...you know how it goes. I've also been reading another forum, but I think I like the topics here better....

Symphony, it sounds like you're "under it" where you are. Now I understand why you were interested in t shirts -as a way to do something.

You could move to a bigger city...it's easier to be anonymous.

I understand your trepidations. I go thru the same thing. I can be bold one day and not be bold again for a long time. Fear creeps in. Or, some well-meaning Christian will be disapproving and give the impression we aren't to reprove sin and it sends me right back to the drawing board. Even the t shirts, (well, the 1) , I often have second thoughts. Yet, certain things "burn" within and are never silenced, and I think it is a constant angst. I keep asking what is it, Lord, because I never really get away from it. And today I think it came to me that I am not being obedient, and that is why I am wrestling. I keep being on the fence about everything.

So, I have been studying how Paul witnessed to the Gentiles, and I'm not done yet, but I figure he is a good model to follow. Also, John the Baptist and Jesus both were full of the Spirit, and my study bible says the Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.

I hear you when you wonder legally what you can do. I often wonder when the "hate speech" laws will be on the books. Have you ever looked up Ray Comfort? He is from New Zealand and has been here about 10 years or so. He did street preaching there and does it here. He goes to a mall or out side the courthouse or where ever, and he hasn't been arrested. He passes out tracts and leaves them everywhere. He even talks about going into the courthouse and talking to the people waiting for trial in the lobby. He has a couple of videos that show him preaching all over. You may have a different preaching style, but it is always good to see someone else involved. It's encouraging. The web site is livingwaters.com  

There was also another website I had found that you'd have to do a search on now, but search out Gerald Sutek. He does public preaching, and has a couple of books - one I have called "Street Preachers Manual". It's all about how not to get arrested. I read it awhile back but chickened out since then. I think he has pictures on a web site somewhere of them in public with signs.

One last reference, there's a site called Light for the Last Days - I'll have to look up the reference and post it - but this guy lives in London I think (it's very heathen there now) and he was out in the public square passing out tracts and the Lord instructed him to begin speaking out His name....I'll send the link.

My friend told me there are some street preachers around here somewhere that stand on a corner with a megaphone.....I need to find what church they go to...

[onestarfisher]

I tried to look up that one article on the site in England, but it wouldn't load. I think it was under Persecution under Articles. I emailed the guy. Another good article was about gays or thought police, can't remember which. Here is the link http://www.lightforthelastdays.co.uk/docs/europe/churches.html

[Symphony]

Thanks onestar.

Yep, each situation is different.  I'm defintely not anonymous.  Hehe.

I heard of one elderly lady once who'd visit inmates in a jail.  They called her "Mom".  She had an "in" that others didn't.  

I did go to the store today and right there, the magnetic things you mentioned, and the transfers also, for your printer.  'Didn't buy any; but at least now understand what you were talking about better, and how I could use those.  

So far I'm liking the "Homo'y is a sin" idea.  I've worked out several ideas for that.

One idea; a one-inch wide paint brush; house paint.   Practice your brush strokes on rags until you have a style you like--casual, yet neat.  That might work very well.  I haven't tried it yet.

As long as we're being obedient to God, and to His Word, then the details will work themselves out.  

I always wear either t shirts or sweat shirts anyway, so it's not a big switch for me.

The important thing, I think we can have that "love" in us that passes all  human understanding.  In all this, that's what we want ultimately to communicate--that "peace" that passes all understanding.  Not "militant", or vindictive, of course.

We want to honestly "care" about these people(homos'l or not), insofar as possible.  Things are moving fast.  There will be fewer and fewer people who do care--or are able to do anything about it.

I think there's much in the gay movement that is a reaction to the traditional "self-righteousness" of religious people, etc., so they're expecting the usual condemnation and hypocrisy.  One very accurate accusation I heard on the news, during the Episcopal debacle last fall, "You didn't say anything when we began ordaining female clergy(in 1976)".


So the gay community is looking for the usual self-righteousness, and the usual hypocrisy, from us.

[onestarfisher]

Hi Symphony,

I wouldn't use housepaint for your t shirts - it would probably flake off and clog the washer. Get acrylic craft paint at Walmart and then get a fabric medium to mix with the paint to use on fabrics. Sometimes WM has the medium but if not a bigger craft store (Michael's ? ) would - and they would know what you're talking about. The WM here didn't know what it was but another one had it.

I think I will modify my shirt slightly.....something like, "Hey! Heads up! and then in bigger letters, Homosexuality is a Sin...

sometimes it's confusing, because when you are angry over sin in the land, blatant issues like these, it's easy to feel maybe you are being self righteous. But it's hard to passionate about the issue without some anger creeping in - I don't think the anger is self righteousness, tho. It could be,  if we fail to remember we are no better.

Also, homosexuals think christians are self righteous no matter what they say. Anything short of an endorsement is seen by them as self righteous, so I'm not going to let the term get to me.

Maybe a website address on the shirt in littler letters linking to a web site about people who are no longer gay? Or, Homosexuality is a Sin and then in smaller letters, Don't go to hell!

[Symphony]

Yes, you're right, onestar, no matter what we say, it's ultimately going to be viewed as "self-righteous".

It's a gradual thing, for me at least.  I was out and around in my paint splattered shirt today.  Just reaarange the paint and I'm all set.

For me, I'm thinking I might hand paint the front, with the slogan.

On the back, will just be a simple scriipture reference(not the actual verse).

And instead of it being a verse addressing that exact issue, it'll be a broader picture for the believer.  Right now, I'm liking Romans 12:1(especially b/c it talks about "presenting our bodies...", which is what all this immorality exactly is talking about, 'cept opposite....  The verse doubles for both what we are really here for anyway, plus it prophesies what these people will be doing to us anyway(...sacrificing us...), PLUS it already says this is our reasonable service anyway.  There's no kudos for it.)

I'm thinking possibly, "Homos'y is a sin" for the front; and for the the back, just Romans 12:1, in italics, or a nice flowing script.

For the script, I think I might do in on the computer, then try one of those transfers.  

If transfers would work well enough, I might use that technique for both front and back.

Do transfers work on a dark colored shirt?

If not, I'll probably handpaint the front; and practice a script for the back.

[onestarfisher]

Well, good luck with your shirt. I think it is good to include scripture. Maybe instead of condemning homosexuality you could promote heterosexuality on the shirt? It's a little less confrontational and still gets the point across.  It's hard, when you have to work and need to produce an income, etc, you don't necessarily want to throw it all alway, but at some point we have to take a stand and it's hard to know when and where - and what over. It's a very personal issue. I struggle with it.

Just my opinion, but I would find a way to do it that doesn't "cost you everything" until you're ready to make that sacrifice - I think we all will have that choice sooner or later. Like, I live in a really big town, so I can go out to the mall or store in the t shirt with little personal consequence, if any. Which probably makes me a hypocrite too. It's a difficult thing. I'm wrestling with it now - like, do I wear my cross pin to a job interview or wait until I'm hired? Do I wear my t shirt around everyone, or do I go to specific places? Would I wear it to church? (that would probably be the most dangerous place, hate to say it)

It's a bigger issue that homosexuality, really - like when you brought up the brownshirts and Nazis in another thread. That was a good analogy. Altho I think abortion really applies to that as well - because they're killing unborn babies. But homosexuality is the "issue" of the day, it seems - yet, it is bigger than that. There is a time coming when the buck won't just stop at that - the box will keep getting smaller and smaller for us. At some point, we will have to take a stand. I wrestle with too. Should I just go down now, since I will eventually? Or do I need to pray more and let God take care of when it is.

[Symphony]

Well, good luck with your shirt. I think it is good to include scripture. Maybe instead of condemning homosexuality you could promote heterosexuality on the shirt? It's a little less confrontational and still gets the point across.  It's hard, when you have to work and need to produce an income, etc, you don't necessarily want to throw it all alway, but at some point we have to take a stand and it's hard to know when and where - and what over. It's a very personal issue. I struggle with it.

Just my opinion, but I would find a way to do it that doesn't "cost you everything" until you're ready to make that sacrifice - I think we all will have that choice sooner or later. Like, I live in a really big town, so I can go out to the mall or store in the t shirt with little personal consequence, if any. Which probably makes me a hypocrite too. It's a difficult thing. I'm wrestling with it now - like, do I wear my cross pin to a job interview or wait until I'm hired? Do I wear my t shirt around everyone, or do I go to specific places? Would I wear it to church? (that would probably be the most dangerous place, hate to say it)

It's a bigger issue that homosexuality, really - like when you brought up the brownshirts and Nazis in another thread. That was a good analogy. Altho I think abortion really applies to that as well - because they're killing unborn babies. But homosexuality is the "issue" of the day, it seems - yet, it is bigger than that. There is a time coming when the buck won't just stop at that - the box will keep getting smaller and smaller for us. At some point, we will have to take a stand. I wrestle with too. Should I just go down now, since I will eventually? Or do I need to pray more and let God take care of when it is.

Well, I'll have to come back to this.  But for just now, I don't think there's anything wrong with using everything at one's disposal--that means the total mix--being diplomatic, certainly prayerful.  I've started thinking about your umbrella insurance extension you mentioned--hafta look into that.

Which is also a good point about your promoting heterosexuality.  See, there are many and varied ways of going about this.  For now, for me, I'm just doing it gradually, thinking through the variations.  

It's been six or seven years since I started, oncde in a while, wearing a really old shirt.  Once, I wore a really old pair of blue jeans--they were very well adequately patched, and sewn, into a public estblishment--public services.  But while neatly patched and sewn, they still looked really bad.  Well, I really got the lookdown.  I've tested that a number of times.  Even with old "friends", I've soon learned that most people really do rate you by the clothes you wear.  And that's just old clothes, with nothing written on them.  America is very, very shallow, and fashion conscious in this way.  I've been guilty of it too.  But it shows how unprepared we are.

But I think we should use every resource--both tangible, and intangible---that is, our wits, to advantage.  As long as we're carefully, daily, prayerfully walking in His Spirit, we are on the winning team--even as we are losing, we are winning.

All of how we express it, in our particular situations, is a matter of what already is there in our heads, or in our heart.

So we needn't worry about trying to do too much, or how to do it, etc.  It's easy to get the cart before the horse, etc.

I think just take one thing at a time.  I don't see any problem with being strategic.  That is, there are some places where I won't wear the shirt.  Tho I'm still thinking through that.  There may come a time when it will simply become critical.  It's a mix.  I don't see it as a dialemma really.  The Lord will show us His good path.

[Symphony]

bep wrote - I'm not happy that ADMIN has to spend tons of time dealing with folks trying to attack Christians Unite in dozens of different ways. However, that must mean there are all kinds of things going on at Christians Unite that the devil doesn't like. In that respect, we should give thanks.


Thank you, bep.  I guess we're hardly aware of much of what Admin is having to battle.


onestar wrote -
I understand your trepidations. I go thru the same thing. I can be bold one day and not be bold again for a long time. Fear creeps in. Or, some well-meaning Christian will be disapproving and give the impression we aren't to reprove sin and it sends me right back to the drawing board. Even the t shirts, (well, the 1) , I often have second thoughts. Yet, certain things "burn" within and are never silenced, and I think it is a constant angst. I keep asking what is it, Lord, because I never really get away from it. And today I think it came to me that I am not being obedient, and that is why I am wrestling. I keep being on the fence about everything.


It's a learning curve.  I did a study once on the word "train".  Several NT references on it.  We're in training.  At some point you actually get to looking forward to it, I think.  It's all quite positive actually.   It's productive, and rewarding--"life that is life indeed".  As we learn, I think we begin to see actually more and more of the "obsitcles" become in fact opportunities.  Abraham's real sacrifice was over there stuck in the brambles.  Could it be it was over there all the time.  He just didn't "see" it?

I'm not sure that street preaching may be my tack.  Right now, I'm wanting to approach it, really, as a pure business.

For a long time I didn't see how this could be.  But lately, I've begun to think, why does all "business", by definition, have to always be necessarily "corrupt".  Yes, by always requiring payment for goods or services, corruption thus enters.   So maybe it can't.

But I've started thinking of using the business model, as opposed to a nonprofit one, itself, whereby to make the point, rather than relying upon just the product or service to make the point.  That is, in how the operation itself is structured--using every obstacle as an advantage, instead of viewing it as the enemy.  For example, hiring gays in the printing of the shirts.  

For a long time I never thot of these ideas.  But in today's business and corporate climate(all last year, witness Mel Gibson's impossible struggle of finding distribution), I'm maybe learning things are not necessily as they appear.  Obstacles can be to one's advantage.

Even just a shirt(or bracelet) saying, "Jesus loves you" (with a heart for the word love), would go a long way.  What can you say to that?  Are they going to arrest you for that?

[onestarfisher]

Here's a link with a bunch of pictures of people in public with signs or t shirts.....   http://www.streetpreaching.com/pics/pictures2.htm

[Symphony]

Wow, thanks onestar.   Quite a spread there.

Yep, I may work myself into that, for sure.   Praise God.  It's all wonderful stuff...

[Symphony]

Yes, that's an interesting website.  People are doing some good things.  That's nice to know.