The Beast is Here.

[ollie]

Hillary Clinton.  Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village.

Killroy WAS here...
I've been watching you, Mr. 5020  

     

[Mozilla]

Hillary Clinton.  Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village.

I've been watching you, Mr. 5020  

     

Has Hillary been watching you, Mr. 5020?  

[ollie]

Hillary Clinton.  Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village.

First of all, it takes a Mom and Dad. Sometimes "the beast" can be harbored by the village and it takes Mom and Dad to differentiate and keep the children from the harm of that part of the village.

The interplay of the not beast part of the village does have much to do with the training and forming of children. However, God says Mother and Father are the prime instructors of their young. Raised up in the ways of God, not in the ways of Bill or Hillary.

[Raphu]

I still kinda think that Islam is the beast and Mohammed the false prophet.
The United States and Britain gave life back to the beast of Islam by giving it oil money and developing its oil field. This is the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks like the dragon with two horns of power. This money has revived Islam from the defeat they received in Europe when Islam nearly conquered it at the gates of Vienna and at Tours France(732AD). This beast will lead the world into Armageddon - which it looks like it is doing. I know no other more satanic religion or any other religion that hates believers of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob more.

Notice verse 13, and think of the missle launchers used by the U.S. in the gulf war.

Revelation 13:11  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12  And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15  And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

[Symphony]

Yes, Ollie, excellent point.  The villiage carries aspects of the beast, as do apparently all human associations in whatever form, without a center in Jesus.

Yes, Raphu, I certainly agree Islam may be an expression of that beast.  I'm not sure the only expression, though.  Islam has its own eternal contraditions, and some of them know it.  I'm not sure about Mohammed as the false prophet.  I hadn't thought of that.

I personally think the "beast" transcends all earthly boundaries, from families, to villiages to larger entities.  Generally, I think the "beast" is all earthly bureaucracy--which is expressed broadly in the three main earthly institutions:  Government, commerce and the church(or, religion generally).

All three have very distinct purposes.  Gov't is to monitor commerce(taxation); commerce is to push back and minimize that oversight; the church, in its worldly expression thrives off of the other two(as the "harlot", riding on the back of the beast, government).  The church is intertwined with commerce.

All three instinctively hate the believer, and His Lord--at least, in their ultimate expressions.  They aren't finished "crucifying" our Lord yet.  The only difference between now and the time of the Romans and the Sanhedrin is the size of our weapons(nuclear, as opposed to battering rams...).

America, or western, representative democracies generally, are a strange amalgam of prior distinctions:  We are still answerable to a government, and/or to a church.  But we have a say--that is, we have "representation".  This is an ever constant thorn in the side to government and, certainly, to the historical, traditional church.  Government is always, and constantly, "chompiing at the bit" of the constitutions--at least in western countries--put there to contain them.  I may be wrong, but I don't think you will hear very many career bureaucrats or government folk coming to the quick defense of the constitution.  Interestingly, in the U.S., I've read that only three colleges require coursework in the Constitution, for graduation(the three military academies--West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force in Denver).

You could argue that a "Constitution", a descendent of King John's Magna Carta, which I understand his noblemen had to force on him, is a derivative or result of a biblical world view, that is, rights of man as implied by Jesus' "Golden Rule"(...do unto others...)...

and, that a "Constitution" is the only thing in the last several hundreds of years that has in any way successfully contained the truly raw "Beast", in all his glory, at least up to this day.
And interestingly, the "Constitution" is just words, mere words, on a flimsy piece of paper--a "document".   And that, so far, is the only thing keeping us from the jaws of all the might and military power of a literally global superpower--that could corral, imprison and consume us, if it so desired.  Hitler and his Nazis tried it.  Stalin was more "successful". Pol Pot in Cambodia.  And world history generally comes down on the side of nations and nation-building being generally about eating their own young, ultimately.  All of the ancient societies were built on slave labor.

[KiwiChristian]

I"ve always wondered though who is the "man of lawlessness" that the bible talks about?

[Raphu]

I"ve always wondered though who is the "man of lawlessness" that the bible talks about?

It seems that God's truths come in layers - past, present, future, always. The beast is here, yet there may be a particular person come as a representative of satan in the end times who will be seen by all. As there are two witnesses to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in this world today - Jews and Christians - there may also come two witnesses that are slain in Jerusalem before the whole world. We watch people slain in Jerusalem nearly everday on out televisions. Which ones will be God's servants according to the scriptures? These things are happening so quickly, will we even be aware of them when they happen? Some believe in a spectacular rapture of the church where all will see and be astounded, but I think that this will not happen and things will be much more subtle and spiritually discerned - my opinion.

[nlong]

Hey Symph, now I have a riddle for you :

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The answer is hidden in :

Rev 18:10     Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Here's an interpretation that's wacked but sounds cool:

They worshiped the dragon: what flies and breathes fire? Answer: Airplanes.

Now,

Which gave power unto the beast: the beasts are terrorists

And,

"They worshipped the beast: who could make war with the beast?"  Reference: :Who could make war with Iraq? And haven't we been hearing that a lot lately? How can WE be justified in eliminating terrorists they say?

In other words, there could be different references to different beasts, 1) the anti christ and 2) other category (unknown)

Final thought: I found it very ironic that it took exactally one hour for the 9-11 attacks to be complete.

[twobombs]

And it will take exactly one day to obliterate the rest of the east coast.

[Symphony]

Thank you for that encouraging comment, 2bombs.


   

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

God's children can and should stand as witnesses for HIS Glory and HIS Truth regardless of whether it is the end times or not. If it is the end times, we will not be able to stop it, but HIS children can and should serve daily regardless. If you think about this, what better time could there be to witness?

We labor for the lost, as the end times mean Glory for Almighty God.

In Christ,
Tom

[twobombs]

Symph:
Europe somehow escaped annihaliation in the 1980's and this time arrows are pointed towards the US apparently with prophetic backing.

Just looked up with google
http://www.ldolphin.org/angels298.html

You see: 'we' here in Europe got used to the threat of instant death by nucleair fire; all strategic scenarios took place in great parts of then called west-germany ( I've lived all my life 10-20 miles from the west german border...)
My grandparents and my wife's parents always tell tales about WW2, and teach important lessons that not one nation should play boss over another,etc,etc.

But I give you this: it is better to die as a free man, then to live like a slave. For another period of slavery will unfold in Europe after the attack on the USA.

I wished that the USA would learn the valuable lessons of war the easy way; 9/11 as an example. But it all has gone awry; Europe is next.

[rafter]

Hi twobombs, alway thought provoking when reading your posts.  I am going to go out on a limb here with at least part of your riddle.  Could the dragon be religion and the beast be the politcal system that we now have in place here in America? We do act quite arrogant. It is like an attitude of I can't be beat.
Anyway please give me your take on this.  I don't study this because it seems unimportant to me.  My job is to serve Jesus and trust God. And come out from among her and be seperate.  I can be obedient whether or not I understand.  God made it pretty simple.  I am sure I will enjoy your response, and feel free to correct me as this is only a possible senario that I posted.

[Symphony]

But I give you this: it is better to die as a free man, then to live like a slave. For another period of slavery will unfold in Europe after the attack on the USA.

Yes, 2bombs, that's for sure.  Better to do without, than to live fat and be a prisoner.


Some good points, rafter.  Yes, arrogance is certainly our achilles heel--Pearl Harbor, 911, etc., notwithstanding.

I've felt your way too, about prophecy being unimportant.  Still, Revelation, etc. IS there.  ANd, in the Old Testament, offices between priest, king, secretary, scribe, etc., were distinct, there being also a separate office for that of "prophet".  The pagans certainly had them too.

But prophecy is a very distinct part of the O.T.(the Major Prophets--Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekial, Daniel, and the Minor Prophets--all the others).  They make up a considerable part of the Bible, as we know.  Indeed, John the B's and Jesus's message both were Repent, for Why?  B/c of what "is coming".

But your point is well made, about just being obedient, regardless of the details.  The children's hymn, "...but to trust and obey...".

Yes, I would agree that the political system is "the beast", variously.

I think the Harlot, is the church, and commerce, both.

One added note:  The curious thing about money--it always has imprint bearing the government's mark.  But, "money" is simply representing "work performed".  That means your work performed bears the government's mark.

But, just wait until it's required to take in, or on, your very flesh.  Then, effectively, you have become the "money", or, that is, the "currency", of exchange.  There will be then, no more money.  Work performed will no longer be represented, as much as the person doing the work will be.

Becuase people will be the "money".  To be tracked, bought and sold, like money use to be.  That is, "owned" by the governing body sanctioning that "money".  Money will cease to exist, because people will be the money--owned by the state....

[rafter]

Symphony, thanks for your reply. That last part put a picture in my mind that I did not have before. People as the commodity.  I bet our pre civil war slaves knew exactly how that feels..... Of course they are gone now.
The things that are before us. Whew eee. I am so glad God saved this wretched soul and set me free to worship Him. Praise His Holy Name.....