The Noose Tightens(Gay Rights)

[Marc]

Hal said it; when a society legitimizes homosexuality, it's pretty much gone. And ours sure has.  

[Symphony]

Grrrrrr...

[Believer]

Why are we talking about this? All christians SHOULD know
that God clearly states that homosexuals will end up like the
people did in Sodom and Gomorrah if they don't change their ways and repent for their sins.

I have always heard the excuse that they were born with
this, or it's a disease. When will people learn. Homosexuals
are living not only a disgusting lifestyle, but are also going
against God's unchangeable Word. They were obviously not
born with that, and it's not a disease. God wouldn't do something like that.

Also, up here in Canada, they legalized same-sex marriages. It
is legal now. Amazing. Simply amazing. If things weren't any worse then they are now.

Man, I can't wait until Jesus gets a hold of this world. He'll
definitely "clean up this joint".

God bless

[nChrist]

Hal said it; when a society legitimizes homosexuality, it's pretty much gone. And ours sure has.  

Oklahoma Howdy to Marc,

I still have some hope that some things may become better, and some of the bad things our society has done will be reversed. If not, I would agree that our society is in serious decline. We are already paying the price in dozens of ways, but maybe we have been silent to long to reverse it.

I think we are living in the end days and may see the second coming of the Lord soon. Until that time, I think that all Christians should stand up, speak up, tell the truth, and take blatant stands for right versus wrong.

In Christ.

[Symphony]

June 07, 2003

N.H. Episcopalians Elect Gay Bishop
By ANNE SAUNDERS
ASSOCIATED PRESS

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -

New Hampshire Episcopalians elected an openly gay man as their next bishop Saturday, a historic vote in a church deeply divided on the issue of homosexuality.

The selection of the Rev. V. Gene Robinson, 56, who was chosen over three other candidates in voting by New Hampshire clergy and lay Episcopalians, is still subject to confirmation next month by the church's national General Convention.

The confirmation is likely to be a heated battle with international implications. Robinson drew opposition from many in the Anglican community worldwide.

The Anglican Communion represents 77 million people worldwide, including 2.3 million members of the Episcopal Church in the United States. In 1998, the Anglican Communion approved a resolution calling gay sex "incompatible with Scripture."

After the election, Robinson told his supporters to be gentle with those who disagreed with their decision.

"We will show the world how to be a Christian community," he said. "I plan to be a good bishop, not a gay bishop."

According to the Episcopal News Service, the only other bishop to publicly state that he is actively gay is Otis Charles, former bishop of Utah, who made the announcement in 1993 after retiring.

Robinson, who was married and has two grown children, now lives with his partner, Mark Andrew, in Weare and is an assistant to retiring Bishop Douglas Theuner. Friends say he remains on good terms with his ex-wife and two daughters, both of whom were at Saturday's election.

He preaches at area churches and has been active in local causes, such as establishing "Concord Outright," a support group for teenagers.

The Rev. Hays Junkin, head of the committee that selected the candidates, expects Robinson's election to be contentious at the General Convention. If confirmed at the national convention, Robinson would be installed next March.

Robinson faced opposition in New Hampshire, though all the candidates and Theuner have expressed support for gays and lesbians in the church.

His election is expected to be even more controversial among Anglicans abroad. Conservatives in the Church of England and elsewhere protested the appointment last month of an English bishop with liberal views on homosexuality, even though the new bishop vowed to uphold existing church policy on the subject.

The Rev. David Jones, rector of St. Paul's, said he was thrilled with Robinson's selection, even though he recognizes that the Bible speaks against homosexuality.

"The spirit works through that man so who am I to say God's not supposed to do that," Jones said.

On the final ballot, Robinson received 58 of 77 ballots cast by clergy and 96 of 165 lay votes.

New Hampshire Episcopalians number more than 12,000 in 50 parishes and missions.

---

On the Net:

New Hampshire Episcopal Church: http://www.nhepiscopal.org/

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[Alfie]

Sorry, Symphony. Didn't get a chance to read all this before I posted the same article about the gay Bishop.

Just my thoughts, but the homosexual population seems to be increasing at an alarming rate, and the so called closet just couldn't have been that large to hold them all. So I look at this and wonder what's really going on.

In my humble opinion, I think drugs have become a pre-curser to this lifestyle. I have heard that pot tends to increase female hormones in men, and decrease them in women. It's so obvious that so many people just couldn't have been born this way.

Secondly, it is so blatantly out there that it's probably the drugs that are making the homosexual community have this don't care who knows or accepts attitude.

I think drugs are being down played in a lot of things, and most likely is the biggest contributing factor out there.

Okay, let's think for a minute. Homosexuality, porno, child molestation, rape, robbery, murder, prostitution, shootings in our schools, gangs, child abuse, etc. All this, and no one ever talks about drugs.

So what's causing this openly defiant behavior everywhere we look?  It seems so obvious to me that this is the foremost problem (DRUGS)  and everyone just looks the other way--
.

Our God is being replace by a variety of idols: weed, crank, coke, crack, ecstasy, etc. These are the new gods to many.
It is so evil and it is the followers of these gods that are perpretrating these crimes against God and humanity.

We have a real problem here world, and everyone seems to be looking the other way. Unless this problem is brought under control we are definitely in the end times, my friends, for "Thou Shall Have No Other Strange Gods Before Me"

Alfie

[Saved_4ever]

Sorry Alfie I have to disagree.  It's not the drugs that are causing homosexuality.  I've met more straight drug users then gay so that's easily refuted.  There was an entire city in the OT named after homosexual behavior, I think you know who it was.

The problem is not drugs or any other scape goat.  It's the problem that's been here since Adam and Eve.  It's called sin.  I believe that's the message we are to tell people, that they are sinners in need of a saviour.  Would you not agree?  Christians have a bad habit of playing pass the buck like everyone else.  The major problem I have with this is we've been given the asnwer and we still refuse to use it.  I seen people use drugs for a plethora of different reasons ranging from as little as peer pressure to anxiety ridden people.  The attitude is always there though it can be brought out or enhanced by drugs (including alcohol the socially exceptable drug).  If it's there it's there and only one person get get rid of it.

Let's keep focused on Jesus and the truth of the word.  People sin because it's in their very being but he truth is being shut out more and more and so sin abounds.  Let's stop trying to find "reasons" other than the only reason given by God.  SIN

God bless,
Jason

[Symphony]

Hi Alfie, Saved4.

I think there's still a lot of this heavily influenced by drugs, as Alfie says.  That San Jose guy with the child molestation just this last weekend--the only reason they think this guy was caught was b/c of the neighbor's security camera.  But the victim's mother, who was also attacked brutally, said it was like the guy was in a trance, his eyes glazed over.  I guess like the dead, babydoll eyes of a shark.  I'm guessing this 23-year-old heavy into drugs.  He did it all in broad daylight.

Yes, as Jason says, the gay culture is a lot broader than just the drug one.  But drugs provide you that initial escape from conscience, which is necessary for the gay lifestyle.

But also, I imagine Sodom did not have drugs(but I wonder--if they traded with easterners--poppy seeds, heroin, opium??), and therefore their gay bent largely a result of prosperity.

But our culture is difficult to be born into.  You can't really blame people for wanting to escape.  Life is a nightmare, for sure.  And, if drugs are too easily available.

[Alfie]

Jason,

I'm not looking for a scapegoat; I'm looking for answers. I am asking "why" so much, so many, right now. There has to be a reason that the world is worsening as we speak. And, I don't think anyone one wants to say the answer could be as simple as drug abuse. I do not know why everyone looks the other way and can't see the forest through the trees on this one.

Drugs are the devil's stepping stone. Like Symphony said, drugs provide one with an escape from the conscience, and without a conscience there is no right from wrong. It's an anything goes society.

Sure it's sin, Jason, but it is the influx of drugs coming into our country and other countries by the tons that in my opinion is causing this upheaval in our society.  

We are being overtaken by Satan's handmaiden for sure. It's the easiest way for him to control the actions of humanity, and turn one away from Our Lord and Saviour.

Look at my former post, and the crimes I mentioned. They all can be tied to drugs. It is the easiest way to turn one away from the True God for the drugs have literally become their wives, their husbands, their children, and most of all their new found Gods. Just think about it, Jason.

Symphony, if we could trace back to Sodom, I'm sure we could find something very closely related to what's known to us as drugs. Even with alcohol, when one drinks to excess he loses his inhibitions. With drugs it's even moreso. Like you said -drugs provide the initial escape from the conscience.
There are addicts that not only sell themselves, but would think nothing of selling their own children. Their drugs are the top priority, their number one, their new found gods.

Is it not in the Bible that Satan is now ruling our world? It seems to me that he has found the most perfect instrument with which to work. I can think of nothing that could have possibly suit him better or made his work any easier.  

Alfie

[Saved_4ever]

The problem is that the drugs arte not needed for that "lack of conscience" as you claim.  I've known plenty of people that did worse without drugs than with, myself included.  

There are reasons a lot of people turn to drugs and the conscience gets seered before that.  I know why I decided to try drugs.  Drugs provide an escape and some people take that to an extreme.  I have met plenty of people that knew exactly what they were doing while on drugs.  Pot does not impair your judgment like LSD or heroine(though heroine is a derivitive of morphine which I don't hear anyone yelling about using).  

The point is most of the people that do really nasty things when on drugs could and do, do those nasty things with or without drugs.  for those types of people it's just the next few steps down on the downward spiral of being consumed by sin.

When I was younger I tried drugs and I tried some bad stuff.  I know about cocaine, weed, LSD, and PCP (that was an accident but still) first hand.  I did almost nothing "wrong" as in illegal while on those drugs.  Cocaine is really stupid it just makes you feel like running around a lot, very similar to the pills people take to lose weight and play sports.  I still can't figure out why people do that.  Weed usually makes you pretty tired and REAL hungry and you'll eat the craziest concoctions, puts pregnant women to shame.  LSD can and is real bad depending on what the people made it out of.  Sometimes you see lots of neat things, but more often it REALLY affects your brain hardcore.  If someone is thinking about suicide or something there's a hefty chance they might do it when on LSD.  There's just something about it that makes you think about things 10 fold.  Probably why so many people think they can find God.  I've seen people stare at something for 2-4 hours straight while on LSD because they just get lost in thought.  They look like zombies but they're brains are in overdrive, so much so they don't bother to do anything else until they finally get bored.  

There are stories of people who take too much and never come back.  It's real easy to have people freak out because they think about dying or someone they love dying because once you get a thought it's hard to lose it.  We used to have what we called "anchors" these were one or usually two (depending on how many people were "tripping") people who stayed sober incase someone freaked out.  They are the people who kepp you "anchored" to reality.  When your with a bunch of people in their own perspective worlds if you get stuck in a thought they are the WORST people to try to get help from.  Still most of these people did stupid things only people who you knew were destructive already would get worse when they were on drugs and do something nasty.

I hope no one thinks I'm defending drugs because by no means would I do such a thing.  I thought I might share some TRUE stories about drugs.  I hear so much garbage that's not true sometimes, and it totals up to propaganda which is bad regarless of who uses it.

The answer as to "why" things are getting worse?  Because Jesus said they would get worse.  Look at how many unsaved people there are with no teaching of morals or consequence.  You have people trying to change what is and isn't wrong allowing man to "do what's right in his own eyes" and we know that doesn't work.  There was much more violence in times past tham now and there weren't readily available drugs.

We also didn't have the boob tube to post every new thing that comes along with in minutes of it's happenings around the world.  I don't think people realize how much the media is why things are so "suddenly worse".  Last summer the news made it seem like kiddnapping was running rampant when in fact the stats on kiddnapping say it's gone down.  It's just that this is what the media decided to jump on for now.

Currently it looks like wives are missing left and right, this stuff has ALWAYS happend.

"There is NOTHING new under the sun".

God bless,
Jason

[Alfie]

Saved_4ever,

Thank you for sharing, and may God bless you too.

Alfie

[Symphony]

(More than a month since a post here...)


This last week's U.S. News World Report, July 21, p. 58, John Leo, right hand column:


In Europe "...a major push is underway to criminalize criticism of homosexuality."

[Symphony]

Also, "Obscenity law in Ohio targeted by lawyer",

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030722-112935-9964r.htm

(now, due to the Supreme Court's decision throwing out the antisodomy law of Texas...)

[musicllover]

Symphony,
              Seems once the snow ball begins to roll, its just gets bigger and bigger. Proabition, right on up to same sex marriage. Is booze drinking wrong? No, but in excess anything is wrong. This generation is so desensitized to the wrongs (sins) that I really really worry about the generations ahead of us.  I've had years of therapy to deal with a terrible childhood.....but in some countries what I lived thru is normal and the called "rights of passage" , does that make it ok for "those" people who were raised to believe its ok? NO, NOTHING is alright to any body if it goes against what the scriptures lay out for us. Plane and simply. Homosexuality, incest are wrong. Why? cause the bible calls it an abomination. Someone mentioned holidays, and that the bible isn't good to use or something like that, man I can't believe that was said. YES the bible does matter.  All I know is that if ANYTHING comes between me and God then its wrong. The scriptures are the rule book, for all people its just that some people don't know that. And thats the real shame.  
    It seems the pray warriors need to pray more, but yet things are suppose to keep getting worse and worse. But we still need to pray.
Jesus is Lord.

[Symphony]

Thanks, music.  'Sorry to hear of a terrible childhood.

Yep, the desensitization.  And I'm looking at all the little ones in my growing and extended family--babies, little children, and more on the way.

And I'm thinking, wow, where here will there be any refuge.  If our own government is out to get us.

Of course, historically, that's certainly nothing new.

But staying in the Word, and in prayer.