Eloi,Eloi, lama sabachthani?

[ollie]

Matthew 27:46

Forsaken: Strong's Greek Dictionary

Strong's Number: 1459
Transliterated: egkataleipo
Phonetic: eng-kat-al-i'-po

Text:  from 1722 and 2641; to leave behind in some place, i.e. (in a good sense) let remain over, or (in a bad sense) to desert: --forsake, leave.

Strong's Number: 4518
Transliterated: sabachthani
Phonetic: sab-akh-than-ee'

Text:  of Aramaic or [7662 with pronominal suffix]; thou hast left me; sabachthani (i.e. shebakthani), a cry of distress: --sabachthani.

Strong's Dictionary says it is Aramaic.


Psalms 22:1

Forsaken: Strong's Hebrew Dictionary

Strong's Number: 5800
Transliterated: `azab
Phonetic: aw-zab'

Text:  a primitive root; to loosen, i.e. relinquish, permit, etc.: --commit self, fail, forsake, fortify, help, leave (destitute, off), refuse, X surely.

[eliyosef]

Actually, faith is what counts. "Blessed are those who believe without seeing." Your beliefs, Eliyoseph, seem to be contingent on every word. If one of them is wrong, your whole belief system will crumble.

actually my belief are based on "if G-d said it, gave it, and told us to live it, then my belief in G-d and his word is unbreakable", but in the case of Jesus, man said to stray and so I stay with G-d. Knowign G-d's word and learing such is a commandment and the way G-d wants us to know Him.  He also said to turn to the Torah when times are tough and when false prophets or diviners such as jesus want to lead us from the true G-d of Israel. So accuracy does count to G-d and listening to His Torah is what he wants.

[Heidi]

So what does a Jewish person do with his selfish acts and thoughts everyday? How are those redeemed? How does he know how much is enough? Also, if a person believe his acts are what makes him good then he must believe that someone who doesn't do good acts is bad. He has already set himself up as better than thou which is idol worshipping. That's why Jesus was so angry with the Jews because pride is their biggest sin.

[eliyosef]

So what does a Jewish person do with his selfish acts and thoughts everyday? How are those redeemed? How does he know how much is enough? Also, if a person believe his acts are what makes him good then he must believe that someone who doesn't do good acts is bad. He has already set himself up as better than thou which is idol worshipping. That's why Jesus was so angry with the Jews because pride is their biggest sin.

first off you are drawing conclusions and your questions are only too easy to answer.  How are selfish acts and thoughts redeemed?  By turning to G-d and observing His Torah. The pricipality is that the point is not to fulfill enough but whether you are doing it or not. whether it is enough is irrellivent.
The concept is not Idol worshipping, worshipping a human is Idol worship, worshipping a sculptured image is Idol worship,anything you hold to the equality of G-d is Idol worship.  To determine what you deem as good acts is up to you as the person what I see as Good acts are not the same for everyone. what you must do is what you believe is right all of the time no matter what others think nor what their criticizms are. we are tought by the Torah and the Prophets not to Judge are fellow man unjustly nor criticize a good act in act of repentence or just of good faith. Pride is one of the christian deadly sins. Would I be wrong to say I take pride in my worship of G-d or I take pride in my work of Helping the sick and poor to be in good health. No, what jesus was more than likely mad at was the fact that the people saw through his false messianic claim and he couldn't get them to believe in his claim because it was false.  My thinking that the person who is signing up for the military to defend the country is not a good act doesnt mean it isnt a good act but in fact it is a good act of a different nature they think it is a good act therefore it is a good act. the same with people who are suspicious of giving to charities while i see it as a good act others think it is bad and the people steal you money..
A good act is something done for the betterment of you fellow man not yourself that is a good act, and way of repentance shall we describe it as a selfless act, and this was described in the Torah and the Prophets long before jesus even existed hence the teaching is older than jesus himself.

[Heidi]

But pride is idol worship, Eliyoseph. It is glorifying yourself. The fact that you think that any human has the right to decide what is right and what is wrong is setting the human being up as God. That is the epitome of human worshipping. You are worshipping yourself.

[eliyosef]

pride is not Idol worship. in essence you are congratulating yourself on a job well done, not worshipping yourself. Were we not given as humans a choice? by making a choice are we being equivalent to G-d by what you are saying you seem to think that we dont have the choice to do right or to do wrong. and such as our choice it is not seeting yourself above G-d.
Incorrect again about Human worship. If I were to say you were G-d almighty the great Heidi that is human worship to hold you above G-d is human worship but pride or congratulations on a job well done is not Human worship.  G-d made you feel that way so that you will continue to do this wonderful stuff you are doing and congratulate yourself even further that you chose right instead of Wrong

[Heidi]

Whatever good in me does not come from me but comes from the Holy Spirit in me. Since you don't have the Holy Spirit in you, you have no choice but to congratulate yourself. You are giving yourself the credit for whatever good that is in you. That is pride at its peak. If we all had choice, then we would all be perfect. But we are full of arrogance, jealousy, wrath, etc. To say that we're not is putting ourselves on the level of God. It is the same thing as putting any other earthly thing like money, power, etc. on the throne of our existence. Actually it's worse because we are deceiving ourselves into thinking that we are masters of the universe, which of course, is again elevating ourselves to the level of God. You can say you worship God, but your actions show you worship yourself. That again, is why Jesus was so angry at the Jews. Their self-righteousness will be their downfall. He also prophesied that because of their arrogance, they will be scapegoated throughout the existence of the world, which is, of course what has happened.

[ollie]

 

false prophets or diviners such as jesus want to lead us from the true G-d of Israel.

How can you make this statement when you say there is no historical record of Jesus?
How would you know this?

Since no record is available, what truthfully and accurately relates this information to you that Jesus is a "false prophet or diviner" and wants to lead us from the true God?

[eliyosef]

 

false prophets or diviners such as jesus want to lead us from the true G-d of Israel.

How can you make this statement when you say there is no historical record of Jesus?
How would you know this?

Since no record is available, what truthfully and accurately relates this information to you that Jesus is a "false prophet or diviner" and wants to lead us from the true God?

Well ollie supposing he did exist compare his miracles and certainly his promise of the sign of Jonah to the Pharisees( which was not shown to the pharisees but to his disciples and a few other believers only) and compare it to Deuteronomy chapter 13 and Deuteronomy chapter 18:20-22(for the sign of Jonah)

of course taken into Account if he did exist....

[Heidi]

Actually there is more evidence that Christ existed than any other firgure in history. Not only were there thousands of witnesses to His life and testimony, but Jesus's impact on the world is larger than anyone else's in history. In addition, who wrote down His words? No other human could have made up His words because how can a human being condemn mankind as evil (including Himself because He said no one is good but God alone), and then preach love to people? Where did He get that love? Certainly not from other humans that He has just testified were evil. The only place He could have gotten that love was from God. So the man who coined His words had to be from God. Those words came from somebody because they're written down. Saying that Jesus didn't exist comes from the same mentality who claim the Holocaust didn't exist. Classic denial.

[eliyosef]

Actually there is more evidence that Christ existed than any other firgure in history. Not only were there thousands of witnesses to His life and testimony, but Jesus's impact on the world is larger than anyone else's in history. In addition, who wrote down His words? No other human could have made up His words because how can a human being condemn mankind as evil (including Himself because He said no one is good but God alone), and then preach love to people? Where did He get that love? Certainly not from other humans that He has just testified were evil. The only place He could have gotten that love was from God. So the man who coined His words had to be from God. Those words came from somebody because they're written down. Saying that Jesus didn't exist comes from the same mentality who claim the Holocaust didn't exist. Classic denial.

Wow i can also claim that this person whos name is "Hipsig" who did all of these wonderful things and i have 6 million of these wonderful testimonies of "Hipsig"  that changed many lives around the world.. The difference between jesus and the holocaust is that the holocaust can be proven true to have happened not by testimony but the finding of human teeth in camps where ovens were.  while all you have on jesus is heresay in a book of devotion of a mythical man/god savior just as depicted in various other religions and greek mythology.

[eliyosef]

What makes things even better is that "Hipsig" was this wonderful Savior considered by many the son of the living god.  was just made up so yes i can get people to give a statement about this made up savior/god and it is just as real as you jesus was

[Heidi]

Whoever this "hipsig" was, I've never heard of him and i doubt my neighbor has. But virtually everyone has heard of Jesus. Also, I notice you put your faith in science. The minds of scientists change faster than the weather and even when they don't change, they disagree with each other all the time. Your faith is in the imperfect human being who will eventually fail you. There is not one thing about Jesus that can be DISPROVEN, whereas, scientific theories are are constantly being disproven, expecially by they themselves! Your faith is on rocky soil and one day you will find out just how rocky.

[Heidi]

By the way, Eliyoseph, you still have not answered my question of who else could write Jesus's words.

As far as the holocaust goes, if you believe in scientific evidence, i wonder how much evidence will exist 2,000 years from now.

[eliyosef]

By the way, Eliyoseph, you still have not answered my question of who else could write Jesus's words.

As far as the holocaust goes, if you believe in scientific evidence, i wonder how much evidence will exist 2,000 years from now.

for all you know i could have written the words that are in your bible, or it could have been one angry jew who didnt want to observe the Torah how should I know  who wrote it if i build a time machine i will go back and see weho wrote it and bring you a fresh picture.

actually quite a bit of evidence will exist because the events actually happened unlike the jesus story