Is Jesus God? - Part Two

[2nd Timothy]

ATA (a triple amen!) BEP and JN!

uhhh no pun intended...lol  

[GodWarrior]

"I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." [John 5:30]  
; Is God's will different than Jesus' will ? Why isn't Jesus acting according to his own will ? Isn't he God ?  

 

"For I have not spoken on my own initiative; but the Father Himself who sent me, has given me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."[John 12: 49]
; If Jesus is God the Son, how can he accept commands from God the Father while "God the Son" and "God the Father" are the same along with "God the Spirit" ? Doesn't this sound like someone giving commands to himself ?

 

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." [Mark 10:18]  
; If Jesus is God, why did he mention clearly that he shouldn't be called good and only God should be called good ? (Churchmen will answer : he directed a question at the young man and challenged him to think about what he was really saying about Jesus). Does this make any sense? If I call you 'strong', and you reply by "Why are you calling me strong, only Mike is strong" would this give -in anyway- an indication for me to think if you and mike are the same or if you are strong ? Of course no. Furthermore, If Jesus was challenging the young man, why didn't Jesus mention that he is God after he heard the reply of the young man? By reading the reply of the young man, anyone would conclude that the young man fully understood that Jesus is not God, If Jesus was God, why didn't he clarify this for him and say "I was challenging you, I myself am God and I am Good". There is more, in Verse 10:20, the young man calls Jesus 'Teacher', do you think this is a befitting name for God? Its so clear that the young man understood Jesus was not God.

 

"And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God." [Luke 6:12]
; Why is Jesus praying to God while he is God ? (according to the claim)

 

"But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only" [Mathew 24:36]
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father" [Mark 13:32]
; If Jesus is God, how come his knowledge is limited (no one knows of that day and hour except the Father only) ? Can a God's knowledge be limited in anyway ?  

 

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" [Mark 12:29]
; If Jesus is  God, why did he say "the Lord our God" ? Doesn't this explicitly point that he had a God ?

 

"You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God” [John 8:31]
; If Jesus is God, this means he heard the truth from . . . himself ?

 

"So Jesus answered them, 'My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me' " [John 7:16]
; To whom does the teachings belong ? To Jesus? No because he mentioned that its not his. To God ? No because Jesus is God (according to the claim). To whom then?

 
"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him." [NIV, Mark 1:12-13]
; According to the verse, Jesus was being tempted by Satan. Can God (the creator of Satan and the universe) be tempted by Satan ?  

 
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' " [NIV, Matthew 4:8-10]
; If Jesus is God, would the Devil promise him that he will give him the kingdoms of the world (while the ALL kingdoms of the world belong to God) ?

; If Jesus is God, shouldn't he have said "Thou shalt worship Me" instead of "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God" ?
 

[nChrist]

GodWarrior,

God was made manifest in the flesh. Just because He lived as a man does not mean that He wasn't God. In fact, He was God before, during, and after being manifest in the flesh. Jesus was not just a man, a prophet, a teacher, or just anything else other than Almighty God.

Read and study the two massive threads, and maybe you will understand. Whether you understand or not, that won't change the absolute fact that Jesus was and is Almighty God. If you trust in any other, you would be lost, as JESUS is the ONLY way, the TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. No man comes to the Father but by HIM, primarily because HE is the FATHER! The Godhead, ALMIGHTY GOD, is a Holy Trinity, and the three are and always have been ONE!

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

[Allinall]

Posted scripture by Mr. BEP:

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

How can we ever match your love, Father? Praise You, Father, for Your personal sacrifice for us and your Spirit living within us.  Lord God - You became mortal to suffer and conquer man's iniquities and You are the Spirit living in our hearts.  The depth of your love and forgiveness cannot be comprehended by us.  Thank you, Jesus, for Your unending, unmatchable love.
Amen.

Amen and amen.  

[Evangelist]

Go get a glass, put some ice in it, and then fill with water.  While doing that, enjoy the air you're breathing.

H2O....comes in three forms, solid, liquid and gas, is comprised of 3 molecules regardless of it's state, and co-exists.

And humanity cannot exist without it.

[GodWarrior]

I understand what you are saying about Jesus is God. To me he's God but not God, if that makes sense. The water comparison is how we explain it in my church. I thought I read somewhere within this thread that Jesus created the world. I disagree with that. I worship God, not Jesus. I think we are thinking the same thing, accept I may have a different view of the trinity. Let me just explain where I'm coming from.

Many people assume that the Holy Spirit, along with God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son, form what is commonly known as the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity expresses a belief in one God who exists in three distinct but equal persons. Is the Holy Spirit truly a third divine person, along with the Father and Jesus?

In spite of these assumptions, the word Trinity doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. In fact, it did not come into common use as a religious term until several centuries after the last books of the Bible were completed.

Notice this admission in the New Bible Dictionary: "The term 'Trinity' is not itself found in the Bible. It was first used by Tertullian at the close of the 2nd century, but received wide currency and formal elucidation [clarification] only in the 4th and 5th centuries" (1996, "Trinity," emphasis added).

The dictionary goes on to explain that "the formal doctrine of the Trinity was the result of several inadequate attempts to explain who and what the Christian God really is ... To deal with these problems the Church Fathers met in 325 at the Council of Nicaea to set out an orthodox biblical definition concerning the divine identity." However, it wasn't until 381, "at the Council of Constantinople, [that] the divinity of the Spirit was affirmed ..." (ibid.).

We see, then, that the doctrine of the Trinity wasn't formalized until long after the Bible was completed and the apostles long dead in their graves. It took later theologians several centuries to sort out what they believed concerning the Holy Spirit.

And by no means are theologians' explanations of the Trinity doctrine clear. A.W. Tozer, in his book The Knowledge of the Holy, writes that the Trinity is an "incomprehensible mystery" and that attempts to understand it "must remain forever futile." He admits that churches, "without pretending to understand," have nevertheless continued to teach this doctrine (1961, pp. 17-18).

Unger's Bible Dictionary, in its article on the Trinity, concedes that the Trinitarian concept is humanly incomprehensible: "It is admitted by all who thoughtfully deal with this subject that the Scripture revelation here leads us into the presence of a deep mystery; and that all human attempts at expression are of necessity imperfect" (1966, p. 1118).

Why do even those who believe in the concept of the Holy Spirit as a third person of a supposedly triune Godhead, along with God the Father and Jesus the Son, find it so difficult to explain?

Because the Bible does not teach it! One cannot prove something from the Bible that is not biblical. The Bible is our only reliable source of divine revelation and truth, and the Trinity concept simply is not part of God's revelation to humankind.

The Holy Spirit, rather than a distinct person, is described in the Bible as being God's divine power.

[nChrist]

GodWarrior,

The Holy Bible proves the Holy Trinity, and it was taught during the life of the Apostle Paul. There is nothing new at all here. In fact, the Holy Bible proves it over and over again. The absence of the word "Trinity" in the Holy Bible means nothing. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all over the Holy Bible, and numerous locations clearly state that the three are one. Just skim part of the proof text in two huge threads, and it will be impossible to ignore. It doesn't take a Bible scholar to see it. "The Three are ONE" means exactly that. JESUS, the Son, and the HOLY SPIRIT were revealed and believed in over 2,000 years ago. AND, of course, the FATHER was known and believed in for human history.

Now, it's simply a matter of believing what the Holy Bible says from cover to cover or not. Even the Old Testament speaks of all three numerous times. Whoever may have missed the massive number of references in the New Testament must have either been asleep or the follower of another god (little "g") for the last 2,000 years. However, there are still many today who reject Jesus Christ, but it isn't because the Holy Bible is unclear. It means absolutely nothing what some so-called Bible scholars believe or don't believe. I know many Doctors of Theology who are lost and on their way to hell.

The only way to dismiss the Holy Trinity is to dismiss the entire Holy Bible. Otherwise, the Holy Trinity is simply another absolute fact of the Holy Bible. THE THREE ARE ONE is more than sufficient if someone doesn't like the word "Trinity". Any other teaching is false, blasphemy, and the lies of man without regard for the Holy Bible. That's really how simple it boils down.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

 

[JudgeNot]

I worship God, not Jesus.

GW - This is a Christian forum.  On a Christian forum, we worship Jesus Christ our Lord God.  That's what 'Christian' means.
Please think before you post...
I'm sure there may be other forums where the majority may agree with you.  Perhaps the new 'One World Religion' that lowers Jesus to the level of budah or mohammed. But this is a Christian forum and you bring an unacceptable, abhorrent argument.  Christ cannot be Christ unless He is God.  For a Christian, this is fact that cannot to be argued.

[Shammu]

I worship God, not Jesus.

Christ cannot be Christ unless He is God.  For a Christian, this is fact that cannot to be argued.

Amen! JudgeNot!!

Bob
James 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen, brothers. Jesus Christ is in fact God and the Bible does teach us of the trinity.

1Jo 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

For a Christian, this is fact that cannot to be argued.

[GodWarrior]

WOWIES...Ekkk......I just wanted to see how everyone on here would explain the trinity. Yet, when challenged by me most of you either took the high road out by letting someone else speak, or just didn't explain it. I do know I'm not going to judge anyone, yet you judge me and don't know me. Just suppose I wasn't a Christian and this was how you dealt with me. By telling me I'm stupid and leave. I know Jesus taught us to love our neighbor. Sorry if I upset everyone. I just wanted everyone's thoughts... To those of you who explained it, I thank you, and to those of you who wouldn't explain or just got upset...I'll pray for you. I'm new here and thought everyone here was Christian, but not one person was willing to be loving towards me.

Trinity to me is:

All of the religions of the world focus on what man can do to make amends for his own shortcomings. This is called work. This is man's effort to reach God. Christianity is the opposite of religion. It is a relationship with God. In Christianity, God, because of His love for us, came to us in the virgin birth of Jesus.

In the beginning of the Bible we are told how God created the world, how He created mankind in His own image. This is the image/ability of mankind to think, reason, understand, and have emotions. Yes, the world is created by God. It is impossible for something to come from nothing and it is even more impossible for life to come from non-life. The Bible tells us that mankind was created for Fellowship with God, to have a relationship with God in the Image that God created us.

As we all know, Adam and Eve disobeyed God and sinned. Sin separated now sinful mankind from the Holy God. The Earth is a fallen place where sin is being lived out in disobedience, sickness and death, all at the displeasure of God. Heaven is where God's will is being obeyed and Heaven is out of the presence of disobedience, sickness, sin and death.

This is where Jesus comes in. Jesus being God, He created us, yet man's sin has separated us from God. In time, God took on the form of a man (became a physical man). In His body Jesus/God gave Himself and died on the cross, dying in the physical so we can now have a Spiritual relationship with God. Three days later Jesus rose from death (showed Himself to be Alive). Jesus is now Alive and in a Spiritual body. The Bible tells us that our physical eyes cannot see the Spirit/Heavenly realm, just as we cannot see radio waves though they exist.

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." John 18:36 Jesus is referring to His kingdom where man is reunited with God in the Holy Spirit.

A Christian is a person who acknowledges their own human sinful nature and accepts the Love of God to die on a cross for us. Being God He then Resurrected from death and currently is reuniting us into a living Spiritual Life with Himself/God.

God Bless You All!!!

[nChrist]

Godwarrior,

This is a critical issue, and that's why it is covered in such detail on Christians Unite.

Now, more than ever, the devil is a roaring lion, seeking those he can devour. There is an ever growing number of false religions trying to lead people to any Jesus other than God. The fastest growing false religion is Islam. There, Jesus is just a man or prophet. The devil loves this teaching.

Another false cult teaches that Jesus was created and originated as a brother angel of Lucifer. Again, the devil loves this teaching. There are false cults teaching all kinds of things about Jesus that the devil loves. I could give you all kinds of examples, and there are more to choose from every day. I'll just mention a few:

Jesus was just a man and was glorified into a God. We can also be glorified into a God.

Note: I can barely stand to mention this one. Jesus was an agent of the devil and a type of the anti-Christ, an impostor.

In fact, I can barely stand to mention any of these. Jesus was a prophet of Allah and lesser in importance to Mohammad.

There are a huge variety of cults and false religions that really represent the devil. They have all kinds of clever and devious ways to draw people away from the only truth that can save them. Why? - Jesus Christ - GOD manifest in the flesh, dying on the Cross for us is the devil's worst nightmare.

When JESUS CHRIST - THE CHRIST - THE LORD OF LORDS - THE KING OF KINGS - ALMIGHTY GOD gets you and possesses you, the devil has lost the battle of eternity. No power in the universe can pluck you from HIS MIGHTY HAND! JESUS paid it all for me - I believe it, and I'm a possession of HIS. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, and the Holy Spirit lives in my heart. In fact, my heart is sealed by the Holy Spirit, setting me apart as a possession of JESUS forever. No power can break the seal of the Holy Spirit, and I am delivered - SAVED FOR ETERNITY! I live and walk in THE SPIRIT!, and I give thanks that JESUS loved me so much that HE gave HIS life for me on the cross. HE arose from the dead and is my LIVING LORD AND SAVIOUR forever!

Teaching you anything else is the opposite of loving and kindness. Your eternity is at stake. Giving you the Gospel of God's Grace is the most loving and kind thing that a Christian can do for any man or woman. Anything less would be cruel and hateful.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

[GodWarrior]

Thank you blackeyedpeas!!! Sorry if I may have gotten you upset or offended. It's just that the heading does say under it defend your faith or ask questions, so that's what I was doing. I appreciate that you went into details and all that lot. I hope you understand we are on the same page. I just like to find out people's ideas, beliefs, and interpetations. Especially since there are many different denominations of Christians. God bless you tons and tons!!!

[nChrist]

Thank you blackeyedpeas!!! Sorry if I may have gotten you upset or offended. It's just that the heading does say under it defend your faith or ask questions, so that's what I was doing. I appreciate that you went into details and all that lot. I hope you understand we are on the same page. I just like to find out people's ideas, beliefs, and interpetations. Especially since there are many different denominations of Christians. God bless you tons and tons!!!

GodWarrior,

I'm not upset at all. I love to share the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel of God's Grace. I pray that God will allow me to share it every day I have left in this short life.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 100:5  For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

[2nd Timothy]

I found an interesting passage regarding this I had never noticed before.

Note who is speaking from the start...

Isa 48:12  Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isa 48:13  Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isa 48:14  All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
Isa 48:15  I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.
Isa 48:16  Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Isa 48:17  Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.


Absolutely no question Who is speaking, Who He says He is, Who sent Him, and what He says He has done.  Praise His Holy name!  What an awesome God we serve!!!

Grace and Peace!