division is good even denominational division

[pocket]

Would you want some one else  raising your child ?
Some one who loved to teach youngster's to cuss
some one who loved to teach youngster to lie and cheat .
Most would not . They would rather raise them according to better values in their own family. Yet they realize all children
raised in bad homes may stiil inspite of the bad home be good kid's .And they hopefuly would invite that kid over to their home and family rather than having their child be under the bad influcence of the bad  home.
 

It is the same with denomination's some denomination's no longer teach what God want's them to teach. Would you want your child brought up that way?No. yet you realize because of the bible their will be believer's raised in bad denomination's.
And  you  want any member of that  bad teaching denomination ,to come to your church where they could hear God's truth. Sure you would .
Yet  you would not want to go to their church because the teaching's did not hold to the bible would offend you, or even may intice you into wrong thinking.
So division though not desirable is the only Godly option.
You would want them to go to your bible study's, that up held Gods word .And you would want them to  be lead in prayer by your bible believing pastor not their's .And also to worship at your church .



 if every one taught God's word correctly their would no longer be a need for division. Except for those who refused to believe it and wanted to change the teaching to their way of thinking.


Dr xxxxxx put it most brilliantly this way . He firmly believed this.


here is a trust worthy quote .

"IAM not concerned  with life but with doctrines. Evil life does no great harm except to it self! But evil teaching is the most
pernicious thing on earth, for it leads hosts of souls to hell. weather you are good or bad does not concern me. But I will attack your poisonous  and lying teaching, which contradicts
God's word: and with Gods help  I will oppose it vigorously"

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You see
EVIL Life only hurt's it self when it comes to where one will spend eternity but evil teaching can be most deadly to those that hear it  and do not know or are not sure  it's wrong.
And those who know it's wrong should be thinking of those that are not sure . And stay away from it as a good clear example. Or make it clear to every one that it is wrong teaching and they should not believe it.
God's blessing's

[Soldier4Christ]

pocket,

This is the third thread on this subject. Please keep it all in one thread and do not keep opening up new threads for the same subject.


moderator

[pocket]

pocket,

This is the third thread on this subject. Please keep it all in one thread and do not keep opening up new threads for the same subject.


moderator

i Saw this  as a some what different subject.
Pastor Roger's

If  you and other christians  really wanted to unite with us .
Which by the way you and they  really and honestly do not !
Unless of course , we xxxxxxxxxxx were willing to unite under their and your  term's .
which mean's we would have to be the ones  that compromised what  we believe are
fundamental biblical truth's Important to our salvation .
 Now like i said "if you honestly" wanted to unite with us.
So be it ! Than you must agree 100 percent with our xxxxxxx confession's
every one of them!And be willing to take a oath unto death for them like we do.
You can find them here and study them! as if you would .Huh!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Unless youi are willing to do that. Your really just trying to pull the wool cap over our eye's.
You are realy telling us a half truth a lie really.
what your realy saying is you   xxxxxxxxxxxxxx give up your beliefs for the sake of uniting with us in our's. Compromise your faith
Well (modified to remove indication to foul language) that my not so friend.
but clever enamie.

[GKB]

POCKETS, please see the response that i posted in the similar topic that you posted.

i really believe that more time shouls be spent convincing non-belivers!

[curious]

      Divisions in Yeshua's church are not good
   at all,because some people don't like others,
   just because they're not the same denomination.
       Their is not supposed to be division in His
   church,but denomanation is division & it causes
   strife in His church.

          Yours in Yeshua,
          curious

[nChrist]

     Divisions in Yeshua's church are not good
   at all,because some people don't like others,
   just because they're not the same denomination.
       Their is not supposed to be division in His
   church,but denomanation is division & it causes
   strife in His church.

          Yours in Yeshua,
          curious

Amen Curious!

If both of us love JESUS, belong to JESUS, and have JESUS as the LORD over our lives, we should be able to have fellowship with each other.

I don't know any two Christians who agree about absolutely everything, even if they go to the same church. I know that it is possible to have differences of opinion and still have fellowship. If 100% agreement was required for fellowship, every Christian would be completely alone and not be able to enjoy the company of other Christians. The fact is that we can and do have fellowship with other Christians, and it is not necessary to fill out a 10 page doctrinal questionnaire before Christians can enjoy each other's company.

Love in Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

[Soldier4Christ]

     Divisions in Yeshua's church are not good
   at all,because some people don't like others,
   just because they're not the same denomination.
       Their is not supposed to be division in His
   church,but denomanation is division & it causes
   strife in His church.

          Yours in Yeshua,
          curious

Amen Curious!

If both of us love JESUS, belong to JESUS, and have JESUS as the LORD over our lives, we should be able to have fellowship with each other.

I don't know any two Christians who agree about absolutely everything, even if they go to the same church. I know that it is possible to have differences of opinion and still have fellowship. If 100% agreement was required for fellowship, every Christian would be completely alone and not be able to enjoy the company of other Christians. The fact is that we can and do have fellowship with other Christians, and it is not necessary to fill out a 10 page doctrinal questionnaire before Christians can enjoy each other's company.

Love in Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NASB  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Amen to you both. Christians are of one body not many.

[pocket]

correction on pastor Roger's name and  more information on the why of it.

scripture is not subject to how many agree with it.
The people who responded are all wrong ,scripture is correct.
Pastor Roger's you all like.
 He tells you what you want to hear.
But I believe the truth is

Only God knows who are in his true church--- not any of you or me or pastor Roger's.

People must go by peoples confession's all of them.
That is why You will not see pastor's of my christian confession
agreeing with pastor Roger's unionistic views.
 
You would never here one of my pastor's call him a brother in Christ unless he confessed All that they have confessed.
 "Nor would you here them say he was not a brother in Christ". They simply do not know.

Only God see's the heart.

We people are not God we must go by another person's confession.
Does pastor roger's say. He believe's what me and my pastor's what we believe ?

 He does not. (his confession appears to be  unionism at the exspence of  what we believe is Christ's doctrine's)

Pastor's Rogers fruit is easy to Judge since he is a pastor.

a pastor's fruit is what he teaches and preaches .
his fruit to me screams of  unionism at the cost of what we believe  God really teaches in the bible.

Pastor Roger's teaches Some of Gods teachings are unneccesary for unity  .
We believe every thing God teaches is not only neccesary but important for our salvation and also for true unity to take place.

We believe
If the devil cause compromises in just one truth of Gods word.
the devil than  is that must closer in getting us to compromise this truth .
That we are saved by Gods grace alone  through faith in Christ Jesus merit's alone.

[Shammu]

Only God knows who are in his invisible church.
people must go by peoples confession's all of them.
That is why You will not see pastor's of different christian confession's
agreeing with pastor rodger's.
Simply put pastor Rodger's can not take communion in
churches where there christian confession is not the same as his.

So who is he kidding?
You would never here one of my pastor's call him a brother in Christ unless he confessed All that they have confessed.
 Nor would you here them say he was nota brother in Christ. They simply do not know. Only God see's the heart we people must go by confession.
Does pastor rodger's say. He believe's what me and my pastor's what we believe .

I know he does not.
I would not call him a brother in christ nor would any of my pastor's we simply can not see his heart we must go by his confession does it line up with our's

Pocket,

His name is Pastor Roger, not, pastor rodger. Just because you disagree with Pastor Roger, doesn't make him anyless a brother, in Christ.

God knows Pastor Rogers heart, as he knows my heart. I am proud, to call Pastor Roger a brother in Christ.

1 John 2:11  But he who hates (detests, despises) his brother [ in Christ] is in darkness and walking (living) in the dark; he is straying and does not perceive or know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 4:20 If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [ in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Galatians 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.

[pocket]

Pastor Roger's public confession is different than mine .
He may be the true  brother in Christ AND I may not be. or vice versa !perhaps we both are not. or are . Only God knows the hearts .
we as people Must go by confession .

Jesus say's if you love me you will KEEP my teaching's
John 14:23

What about Jesus teaching's on what must be for religious unity can  take place?
is that not important for loving Jesus?
================================================
Men sometimes array the Gospel against itself by urging that they “want the Gospel,” they “don’t want doctrine”; as if there could be any real Gospel which is not doctrine, or any Gospel in its totality, which does not embrace all the doctrine of the Gospel. It is as if they said: “We want nourishment; we don’t want food”; “We want warmth; but none of your fuel and clothes for us.”
Whether the laxity of the time helps men toward the extreme [of] pseudo-ecclesiasticism or the extreme of unionistic sectarianism, the beginning of the healing must be a Bible estimate of the indispensable nature of Bible doctrine.


SOME EXCERPTS FROM THE WRITINGS OF


CHARLES PORTERFIELD KRAUTH

Pocket,

His name is Pastor Roger, not, pastor rodger. Just because you disagree with Pastor Roger, doesn't make him anyless a brother, in Christ.

God knows Pastor Rogers heart, as he knows my heart. I am proud, to call Pastor Roger a brother in Christ.

1 John 2:11  But he who hates (detests, despises) his brother [ in Christ] is in darkness and walking (living) in the dark; he is straying and does not perceive or know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 4:20 If anyone says, I love God, and hates (detests, abominates) his brother [ in Christ], he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, Whom he has not seen.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Galatians 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.

[Shammu]

I firmly believe that denominations are a man made cult. Each take what they believe and make the most of it. Is one single Church correct? I believe not. Jesus knows the hearts, of you and Pastor Roger. I also believe that you both are brothers.

You are right on the money though......  Nothing is more important then loving Jesus.

Resting on the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Hosea 14:4 I will heal their faithlessness; I will love them freely, for My anger is turned away from [Israel].

[pocket]

I firmly believe that denominations are a man made cult. Each take what they believe and make the most of it. Is one single Church correct? I believe not. Jesus knows the hearts, of you and Pastor Roger. I also believe that you both are brothers.

You are right on the money though......  Nothing is more important then loving Jesus.

Resting on the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Hosea 14:4 I will heal their faithlessness; I will love them freely, for My anger is turned away from [Israel].

what wrong with that thinking is

Most of the Christian marty's who gave their lives for Christ truth's than were member's of man made Cult's ?

There are many denomination's now day's that teach  cult like   teachings.
Yet  some
hold to Christ truth's.
 How does one tell?
Check all their  belief's out with Gods bible.

[Jemidon2004]

To respond I shall take a few minutes and write out as detailed as I can without being too exhaustive on this issue.

Man is human. Demoninations are made by man because they felt some leading of the Holy Spirit, in the valid cases such as the breaks off of the Anglican Church into the major denominations of Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian to name a few, to break off with what they did not agree with as far as doctrine is concerned. Hence why we are called Protestants. If we protested against the Catholic church's teachings, what's to say we won't protest against those of our own teachings. Such is the nature of humans. You're right about one thing Mr./Mrs. Pocket, Scripture is right. It is the SOLE authority of matters concerning God and doctrine. there will NEVER be a unity of believers on all points of doctrine UNTIL Jesus comes and raptures His church out and we rest in Eternal communion with Him. However, I will state this once again. There are basic fundamental truths that are attacked by satan that are found in Scripture. Most of these truths have been expounded upon in the Catechisms, Confessions, and Creeds of the early church fathers. If you consider them, you'll find that all of them can agree on the basic fundamental doctrines that are essential to the christian faith. I can rattle off some basic ones such as the virgin birth of Christ, Christ's earthly ministry including His miracles and sinlessness.  His baptism of John the baptist and fullness of the Holy Spirit. His denial of Peter, His trial, death on the Cross, the renting of the temple veil, His final words, his burial in a tomb, and His resurrection on the third day. Just to name a few. As a believer, first and foremost, the common denominator between all believers is a faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is a CHANGE from death to life, from unrepentance to repentance, from complacency to ACTION.  This is truth my friend.

I do have one question if the moderators will appoint me this one question, if not, please feel free to erase this sentence from my post, or IM me and I'll retract this sentence as soon as possible. Question: What "confession" are you? Scripture itself attests that any BELIEVER who has recieved the Holy Spirit is, in fact, part of a family. Hence why we call each other "brother" and "sister" I'll give you the verse that supports what i've just said.

Romans 8:12-17

So then, brothers,we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons[e] of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
(ESV)

What does that say? Paul uses the word "brothers" or brethren as the KJV translates it. Paul understood the unity of believers and that no matter what the setbacks he may have faced or doctrinal challenges he faced, those who were sincerely believers were considered brothers. Also, since we've been ADOPTED, the spirit says that we are Children of God and if you'll notice it says "Then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ..." Taken in context, that gives the picture of a FAMILY. Thus why we call each other "brother"

The underlying issue here is not denomination, but one of human pride. I believe that when one seriously studies the Word THEMSELVES under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then they will find that the Spirit will guide them to others whom have been guided to that same conclusion. It's a matter of whether or not we are willing to listen. I, for one, have concluded that it is essential to study the Word, myself, because I will not be just told what is said, but I'll let the Spirit do the guiding. If what I have studied happens to agree with what the Pastor or Preacher is proclaiming, celebration is in order and my spirit rejoices. If not, then I will seek to understand that position that was put forth before I make any judgement about what has been said. This happens when we take TIME to discern what is being stated. Again, there are certain fundamental truths in Scripture that HAVE to be agreed on because they are essential to salvation, which is the common ground unifying ALL of Christ's church. Now if you so choose, salvation can be taken a step further into deeper, theological, soteriological, and philisophical terms than should be presented in the local church or on this board for that matter. Since we (as a body) are of differences in doctrine, many come to the table with presuppositions that are uncharitable even before a stance is presented. So, i'll put it this way: Unify under the basic fundamentals of the Christian faith, and arm yourself with a systematic, fundamental, practical application of the Word of God, and you will find unity there. If your focus is on squabbling about various doctrine that are not essential to salvation, you and the rest of us will falter because we come to the table as HUMANS and will more than often let our presuppositions get in the way of anything the other party is trying to say. SO yes, if we are Believers (christians) then we are of the same family and priesthood. Hence why we call each other brother and sister. There is nothing wrong with that. I do not post to offend, I only post to provoke thought. I hope you will see my words as words of encouragement and guidance. This is to whomever shall read this posting. God Bless

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[Shammu]

Joshua, I don't see no problem with your question. In fact, I think you posted a great question.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

[Soldier4Christ]

Brothers and Sisters,

Division in the Church is the Devils work. He uses the tool of dissension to break up the Church to attempt to make it less effective. The body of Christ is joined together by this statement

"That we are saved by Gods grace alone through faith in Christ Jesus merit's alone."

not by the name of a given denomination. If that "screams of  unionism" then so does the Bible. The unity of brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ.


Psa 133:1  <A Song of degrees of David.> Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!


Eph 4:2  With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3  Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7  But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.



Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17  This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18  Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19  Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20  But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21  If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22  That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23  And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24  And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25  Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.


PRAISE GOD FOR HIS SAVING GRACE!