Plan of Salvation?

[PrivateJookie]

--------Part 1--------

Hello all,
I just came across this forum and started reading various subjects. One that caught my eye was the topic of salvation. It did not take long for me to be disgusted at the complete disregard of scripture. Now I will admit, a lot of the posts were mostly correct, but not 100%. We all agree that Jesus Christ came into this world for a purpose - a purpose to die for us so that we may one day enter Heaven. We all agree that one must have faith, one must have belief, one must repent, one must confess, and one must stay faithful. But where in all these post does someone talk about baptism? Do you all just neglect your first love as Christians and toss his word aside so that you may tickle your ears and hearts with the doctrine that you want to teach and hear? It burns my heart to read that people are teaching, on a Christian forum, the sinner’s prayer! “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.”
   I also looked into this faith-only idea.  You are also correct about the importance of faith.  Faith is the foundational basis for all that we believe, and without faith everything we do is in vain.  And obviously the water of baptism is simply water, but it is our faith that God will do what he said he would do when we present ourselves to be baptized.  He tells us in Romans 6:3 that baptism connects us with the resurrection and the burial of Jesus Christ.  That is where we come into contact with the atoning blood of Jesus, and without that the sacrifice would have been futile.  Any study of the Old Testament sacrificial system will lead you to this (Which Galatians tells us was the schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus Christ, a big object lesson for us to understand what was done on the cross).  IF simply faith was enough, then Christ coming to earth and dieing on the cross was completely pointless.  
   Moses once held up a big bronze Snake and those who looked upon it were healed from their snake biting inflictions. If it was the bronze snake that healed them, then how come superstores aren’t making a profit on bronze snakes for snake bites? Shouldn’t everyone have one just incase someone gets bit?  Because the bronze snake had nothing to do with the healing; it was their faith that God would heal them when they looked upon it like he said they would.  This is the same way with baptism; the water is nothing, but 2 Peter 3:21 tells us that Baptism NOW saves you.  Not because of the cleansing of the water, but because of the faith that God will do what he has set out to do.
   Now I also believe that if I am going to believe God’s word, then I am going to believe 100% of it all. And if God can speak the world into existence and create everything that he did, I am sure he can find the right words to write down in a book. So that means whatever the bible says, that is what I am going to do. In Acts 2:36-38, Peter says “Therefore let all your house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” This says clearly that we are baptized FOR the remission of sins AND the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter does NOT say that baptism is a good idea, he commanded it, and without it we don’t come in contact with the blood, we do not get our sins washed away and we will not receive the Holy Spirit. And do not forget Mark 16:16, “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” The book of Acts is full of people getting baptized. Acts 8:12-13 has men, women and Simon being immersed. The eunuch in Acts 8:27-39 was immersed also. Also, if baptism is inessential, then what would have John the Baptists purpose in preaching about another baptism to come? So without baptism, how would we receive the Holy Spirit and have our sins washed away? There is no other way to gain the Holy Spirit and/or have your sins washed away unless you follow what is written down in the Bible.

[PrivateJookie]

--------Part 2--------

[/b][/u]

You must be careful when reading. Just because you read something doesn’t mean that is the exact law, there is usually more. Yes, the bible talks about faith a lot, but you must read on and study everything. For example, many people believe that only 144,000 are going to make it to heaven because that is what Revelations 7:4-8 says, and it does seem that way UNTIL you read the very next verse. Revelations 7:9 says “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,” This clearly shows that there is many, MANY more that will make it to heaven, so many that it is uncountable.
   Going back to the “ask and you shall receive salvation” thing…by what your saying, all someone would need to do is send up a prayer to God and anyone could be saved. But in John 9:31 it says “Now we know that God does NOT hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshipper of God and does His will, He hears him.” So anyone who is not baptized for the remission of sin is a sinner, because that is the only way to have sin completely cleared. And anyone who is a sinner cannot be heard by God. Which means saying a prayer for salvation is un-doctrinal and will not save anyone.
It also seems that you are saying that once we are saved we are always saved. If this was true, then I could sin everyday, all day, and I would still be guaranteed a spot in heaven. But in many books of the Bible there are accounts of people falling away, turning away from Christ, and are now on a one-way trip to hell unless they repent. In Galatians 1:6-7 Paul is writing to a church, not just to one person, but an entire church in Galatia and said “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.” Not to mention the 7 churches mentioned in Revelation and how most were doing something wrong. The church of Ephesus he wrote, “Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lamp stand from its place unless you repent.” That’s pretty blatant to me. You must remember that sin is the complete opposite of God and that it only takes one sin to make that separation. But we have the choice to repent and be forgiven, but also must remember that to truly repent we must have a Godly sorrow and to never do it again; for that is true repentance.
I also read on this forum that Christians aren't perfect but God helps us to become better; and promises that in the life to come we will be made perfect. If Christians are not perfect, then that means we sin, which does not make us Christians at all, but rather luke-warm Christians which He will spit us out of his mouth because of that. If we do not sin, follow God's word, then we are perfect in the Lord's eyes. For we have died to sin, so how can we live in something that is dead? In 1st Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
Lastly I extend my hand in helping also. If you have any questions, please ask. Right now I’m sitting at a computer at the university that I attend and don’t have much to do at times. I hope you can understand my concern about some of these topics and pray we can meet on a common ground on these subjects. Thank you so much for your time and I hope to hear from you all soon.

Justin Moore
a.k.a Jookie Jervin Edgers



P.S. If ANYONE replies to this post they better have scripture ready because opinions don’t mean jack squat unless you have scripture to back it up.

Also, if you have any problems finding baptism verses, here are a few in two translations.
NASB
1 Peter 3:21
   Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:5
  He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
1 Peter 1:3
   Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Acts 22:16
   'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'
1 Corinthians 6:11
   Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
John 3:5
   Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

NKJV
1 Peter 3:21
   There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:5
   not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
1 Peter 1:3
   Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Acts 22:16
   And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
1 Corinthians 6:11
   And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
John 3:5
   Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Here are sin related issues

Romans 6:1-4
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1 John 3:7-9
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!



Modified to remove link to advertisements

moderator

[PrivateJookie]

Oh, and before you start hating me for bringing the truth, Jesus already called it...
Matthew 10:22
"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved."

[Soldier4Christ]

Welcome to the forum PrivateJookie,

I removed the link you have in your post. It is against forum rules to post advertisements or links to such items.

A portion of the forum rules on this subject follows.

ADVERTISING:  A post that attempts to bring public attention to the offering of goods, a product, a business, or a service.  The definition remains the same for a non-profit organization, an individual, a charity, a church, etc. This obviously applies to links, banners, or information included in a member's profile that may accomplish the same thing. This also includes the offering of a free product or service as an enticement or lure with an obvious end purpose of selling goods or services. PROHIBITED ON CHRISTIANS UNITE DISCUSSION FORUMS!

cc: moderators

[Shammu]

I also read on this forum that Christians aren't perfect but God helps us to become better; and promises that in the life to come we will be made perfect. If Christians are not perfect, then that means we sin, which does not make us Christians at all, but rather luke-warm Christians which He will spit us out of his mouth because of that. If we do not sin, follow God's word, then we are perfect in the Lord's eyes. For we have died to sin, so how can we live in something that is dead? In 1st Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Justin Moore
a.k.a Jookie Jervin Edgers

So are you perfect? You haven't commited any sin since you became saved?

[Jemidon2004]

Here we go again...

We have died to the EFFECT of sin in regards to our condemnation to hell. Isn't that what salvation is? the complete grace of God lavished upon us and men who have and will accept Jesus Christ as their Savior from their sins? Sanctification of this body is an on going process my friend, or did you not read Philippians 1:6 in full context. Furthermore,you did not draw the distinction of sanctification of the body and sanctification of the spirit. I must say I do disagree with your statements, and I would be wary of proclaiming it as truth seeing as the arguement can be made from both sides of the spectrum. to proclaim it as truth and make such a statement as you just did...kinda shows a bit of arrogance...because it's like you are putting it out there as bait just to provoke an arguement. You may see it as correct, you are entitled to that my friend, but it doesn't affect my salvation. I have been saved by GRACE through FAITH in Christ Jesus. I trust Jesus for my salvation...but i'm not going to sit here and tell you that you are wrong...however, I KNOW that I have eternal life. There is nothing on this earth that you can tell me different than the assurance I have from God that I am eternally secure in my salvation. NO this does not lead me to sin daily and fall back on the excuse "well i'm saved" That's antinomianism...which says that christians can continue to live in sin. This denies the VERY nature of salvation which says that we are dead to sin...however when a christian fails to serve God, his REWARD is lost, not his salvation...i.e. 1 Corinthians 3:15. Your blatant statements of "truth" have no effect on my salvation...I remember John's words when he wrote in 1 John...about how we would KNOW that we have eternal life. Ref 1 John 2:21. I hold the stance of the eternal security of the believer...as you can probably tell, and I can tell you hold to the common conception that one can lose their salvation. If I'm reading correctly that is. However to make such bold statements and proclaim the as truth, that shows a sign of eager arrogance in my opinion. Yes that's my opinion. Discount it if you wish, however I will hold to the doctrine of the eternal security, not because it affects someone else's salvation, but because I KNOW that I have eternal life because I have that peace. Such arguements over whether or not one loses is pointless in reality. I've said my "opinion" take it or leave it, it makes no difference to me. Have a nice night.

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[PrivateJookie]

     For one, sorry about the link thing, must have missed that in the agreement. Point two, let me clear up/restate some things.

     The main point of my message was the fact of baptism being essential in ones salvation. I was bringing this forward in the case that someone "not saved" could read anyone of these posts and think to them self, "all I have to do is believe," which in that case, they are not saved at all, but are given the disillusion that they are.

     I am not doing this to bring up arguments, in truth; I hate arguments because that means there are different interpretations of God's word. And if there is a different interpretation, that means someone has either been taught wrong, has not read enough, or is deliberately teaching false doctrine. 2 Peter 1:20-21 tells us this:

"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

     I bring strictly Bible, I teach only Bible, and I rebuke and edify with Bible only. I place no thoughts or opinions in anything that has anything to do with God. And if I do not know something, I will say so, and study up on it.
     Now I will admit this, the post, as said was for baptism, but I continued to rant on without giving full explanation of the "perfect" Christian. In no way, shape, or form would I say that a Christian is not faced with sin. We all know that Christians are face with trials and temptations, which is obvious. But the point is that we have free will, and we have the power to choose whether we obey God, or give in to sin. When we came up out of the waters of baptism, we are fully washed of all sins and have become a new perfect person. The problem, one could say, is that we have free will to choose to sin or not. What sucks even more is that it takes just one sin, just one stinkin' sin to keep us from Heaven. What the sweet part is that we can repent. Repentance, a true Godly sorrow, can save us from hell, which also takes us back to the point of being perfect, because without sin, we are perfect beings.

He commands us to be perfect - Matthew 5:48

"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

And God commanded us not to sin - 1 Corinthians 15:33-34:

"Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Awake to righteousness and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."

But God always gives us a way out of temptation - 1 Corinthians 10:13

"No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it."

     So to answer the one question, "have I sinned?" Yes, but I have repented and no longer plan to ever do the things I did again.
     But I do have a question for you. Could you please explain the difference between our reward as Christians and our salvation?

Justin Moore
a.k.a Jookie Jervin Eggers

[Soldier4Christ]

Salvation is a gift of God not a reward, freely given.

Rom 5:16  And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.




A reward is something that can be earned. As we are told in the Bible we cannot earn salvation. This was something that Jesus admonished the Pharisees on when they said they did many works in the name of the Lord. Those who are saved however will be rewarded according to their works.

Rom 4:4  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


1Co 3:8  Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9  For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10  According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


1Co 9:16  For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17  For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.


 

[Jemidon2004]

Pastor Roger got to reply before i did. The reason why I posted the way I did is your statements had a definate overtone of those who hold that one could in fact lose their salvation. Considering the place I am at right now, I cannot reply with a detailed answer as to the difference between rewards and salvation. I'm sitting in a computer lab on a campus machine and not at my dorm where I have access to my files and my books. However, if you wish, and God provides the opportunity and time, I'll be glad to write a more detailed answer in the near future, but until then, Pastor Roger's answer shall have to suffice. I have to go eat dinner at the Cafeteria and finish writing other papers. Oh, and one thing we do agree on. I teach the Bible, I preach the Bible, and I stand on the doctrinal foundation that is laid by the Bible. While I may be young in age...and I do not claim to know everything, we are in agreement on that. Just thought I would let you know so that my previous post would not be construed as an angry or beligerent post. I look forward to future discussions. Dominus Vobiscum my friend.

Coram Deo,
Joshua

[Soldier4Christ]

There are those that say the sinners prayer is not Biblical therfore not a part of Salvation and even going to say it is a dangerous practice. It is said this is true because God does not hear sinners quoting John 9:31. This was the argument of the Pharisees. This portion of scriptures is saying that God will not answer the prayers of an imposter, a false prophet, this was in reference to Jesus opening the eyes of a blind man. It has nothing to do with the prayer of Salvation that is truly heart felt. Jesus does hear the repentant sinner.

Jesus taught:

Luk 18:13  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

If God does not hear the sinners prayer then Jesus would not have taught the following and if Christians were perfect, without sin, then there would be no need for them to say the following prayer:

Luk 11:2  And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
Luk 11:3  Give us day by day our daily bread.
Luk 11:4  And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

The elements of such a prayer are solidly based on the following Scriptures.

    * 1. A confession or agreement with God that we are a sinner. (See Romans 3:23)

    * 2. A request asking God to forgive us our sins. (See Ephesians 2:4)

    * 3. An acceptance of Jesus as our Savior and asking Him to be the Lord of our life. (See Acts 16:31)

    * 4. An acknowledgement that God raised Jesus from the dead. (See Romans 10:9)

    * 5. A request for help to live as Jesus wants us to live. (See Romans 7:18)

    * 6. A close thanking God for the gift of His Wonderful Son and His merciful gift of salvation. (See Romans 6:17)

People are told that such a prayer must be from the heart and not just something that you repeat just to be repeating. It is said by some that this is also a dangerous practice. Yet this is also based on scripture. The reason for this is in the following scripture.

Act 15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.






Now let us look at the verses that you gave on baptism.

1 Peter 3:21
  There is also an antitype which now saves us�baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

antitype = One that is foreshadowed by or identified with an earlier symbol or type, such as a figure in the New Testament who has a counterpart in the Old Testament.

"baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh"  =  baptism in water  (notice the not

"but the answer of a good conscience toward God)"   =  baptism of the Holy Spirit


Titus 3:5
  not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
 
regeneration = spiritual renewal or revival

This is done by the blood of Jesus Christ not by water.


Rev 1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,





Take notice that the following verses do not say that salvation is temporary. We are sealed, which means to preserve, to keep until when? Until the day of redemption.  Eternal life is not temporary life!


Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Heb 6:17  Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
Heb 6:18  That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19  Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20  Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


 2Co 1:17  When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay?
2Co 1:18  But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.
2Co 1:19  For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
2Co 1:20  For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
2Co 1:21  Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22  Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.





STATEMENTS AND PROMISES OF GOD THAT WOULD BE NULLIFIED (God would be proved a liar and we know that God does not lie.) IF ONE COULD LOSE THEIR SALVATION.

ERROR vs. TRUTH

1. He is not able to perform what He had promised Romans 4:21
2. He will not present me blameless 1 Thessalonians 5:24
3. He did not predestine me unto the adoption as a child Ephesians 1:5
4. There is condemnation for me even though I am in Christ Jesus Romans 8:1
5. Christ has not risen from the dead Romans 6:8-12
6. The Holy Spirit will take back His deposit Ephesians 1:13-14
7. The Holy Spirit did not seal us 2 Corinthians 1:22
8. He will leave me and He will forsake me Hebrews 13:5
9. He will not keep me from falling Jude 24
10. He will not preserve me forever Psalm 37:28
11. The truth (Jesus Christ) will not be with me forever 2 John 2
12. He did not cleanse me from all unrighteousness 1 John 1:9
13. His foundation is not sure 2 Timothy 2:19
14. He does not know them that are His 2 Timothy 2:19
15. He will cast me out John 6:37
16. He did not perfect me Hebrews 10:14
17. His prayer for me was not answered John 17:11-12
18. He is not interceding for me Hebrews 7:25
19. He did not complete the work He began in me Philippians 1:6
20. My life is not hid with Christ in God Colossians 3:3
21. I have not passed from death unto life John 5:24
22. He is not able to keep that which I have committed to Him 2 Timothy 1:12
23. I am not at peace with God Romans 5:1
24. I can be plucked out of His hand John 10:28-29
25. I can be separated from the love of God Romans 8:39
26. His righteousness is not everlasting Psalm 119:142
27. His love is not everlasting Jeremiah 31:3
28. He is not immutable Hebrews 6:18
29. He did not keep His promise Hebrews 6:17
30. He is a liar Titus 1:2

The consequences of believing a person can lose their salvation creates obvious theological problems that contradict scripture.  For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. Romans 3:3-4a



Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[PrivateJookie]

A quick question for you Roger. When someone "looses" their salvation, what exactly are we talking about here? Because we can either be talking about...

A. When a Christian sins, that sin separates them from obtaining Heaven. BUT, if they repent, they will be able to enter Heaven. By this way, their salvation is still offered after sinning, or rather, they have the chance to always come back, but only if they repent. And if they don’t repent, what does their salvation really mean since they will not enter Heaven.

B. When a Christian sins, their salvation is lost completely, in the sense that once they sin, there is no going back to God whatsoever.

Because I don’t mean to say that part B is true at all, but the fact that a Christian can fall away and be cast down into Hell if they are found with sin. But if they repent, they can enter Heaven.

Justin Moore
Jookie Jervin Eggers

[ollie]

Jookie:
But I do have a question for you. Could you please explain the difference between our reward as Christians and our salvation

Revelation 22:12.  "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.'

Salvation is not a work, but a gift of God. It is Him working in us created in Jesus Christ unto good works. Good works are done within the accepted gift of salvation received through faith in Christ. Faith saves, works reward.
 
 Ephesians 2:8.  "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 9.  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 10.  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

ollie

[Soldier4Christ]

Jookie

It is quite clear from your question that you have not read or understood a thing that I have posted that God has told us on this subject. I suggest that you read it again.


Rom 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36  As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37  Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jud 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25  To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

[PrivateJookie]

So its ok to have sex even tough I'm not married?

[Soldier4Christ]

So its ok to have sex even tough I'm not married?

Again you still have not read what I have posted, you are getting beyond ridiculus.