The Ten Commandments

[darwinatridge]

Hello agian everyone. I intended to place a poll under this forum but put it under the Prayer Forum instead. But I will give some of the information here. I started a poll on a couple of other sites about the Ten Commandments. Here are the links to those sites.
http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=7272
http://www.renewamerica.us/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2977
You can go them and vote or just simply go to the Prayer Forum here and vote. I am interested in seeing the results. Thanks and God Bless

[bettyboop]

The title may be a little misleading.Jesus changed some of the laws,but He never changed the ten Commandments.

[Soldier4Christ]

The ten commandments were not "done away with". Those of us that are saved by grace have been taken out from under the condemning power of the ten commanments and placed under the saving grace of God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Instead of the ten commandments being on stone for us they are now in the fleshy parts of our heart.

2Co 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4  And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5  Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

[bluelake]

Hello agian everyone. I intended to place a poll under this forum but put it under the Prayer Forum instead. But I will give some of the information here. I started a poll on a couple of other sites about the Ten Commandments. Here are the links to those sites.
http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=7272
http://www.renewamerica.us/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2977
You can go them and vote or just simply go to the Prayer Forum here and vote. I am interested in seeing the results. Thanks and God Bless

Why do you think that the Ten Commandments have been done away with?
Did people stop sinning when the New Covenant came upon the scene? I don't think so. We still believe in one God and the Commandments that he gave us.
Jesus said,
Mt.4:10, Lu.16:13, Mt.5:23, Mk.2:27, 28, Mt.10:37, Mt.5:22,
Mt.5:28, Mt.5:40, Mt.12:36, Lu.12:15

God bless you as you study them again.

bluelake

[darwinatridge]

The title may be a little misleading.Jesus changed some of the laws,but He never changed the ten Commandments.

 Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Jesus made it plain that he did not come to destroy the law. What He did by His death on the cross was to release those who trust in Him from the curse of the law. For those that refuse to trust in Him, they are still under the curse of the law. As for the Ten Commandments. He tried to simplify them for us because of our simple minds but by no means where any one of them done away with. They are there for our protection. And if we choose to throw them out, then we are throwing out Gods protection as well.

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen, darwinatridge.



Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15  What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Rom 7:7  What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8  But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

[bettyboop]

I agree with everyone that Jesus did not do away with the ten Commandments.It would have bee ridiculous to do so,since they are the basis of Christian behaviour.I believe he was merely telling us that if we love God,and love our brothers,the other commandments will come naturally,which is true.If we love our brothers we won't steal from them,covet or lie about them.If we love God,we will despise anything that He despises.
  We are to obey the Commandments,but as Christians we obey them out of faith and love rather than fear of punishment.

[darwinatridge]

You are right bettyboop. However there is a godly fear that we should have because of our love and respect for Him as God. It is unfortunate though that so many people have no fear of God because they simply refuse to acknowledge Him as God. The bible tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. There are a lot of unwise people on this planet.

[bettyboop]

I agree with what your saying about the fear of God.I do,but My love for God is based on faith and not fear.

[Shammu]

My love for God is based on faith and not fear.

AMEN!  

[Soldier4Christ]

2Ti 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


1Jo 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jo 4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.


Those who have not the love of God in their hearts have need to fear God.

[Pilgrim]

"Which Law are You Under?"   http://www.nlbchapel.org/which%20law.htm

"    Many who teach that the Law of Moses is still enforce use a the following few verses as proof. The number one objection that I hear most often is Matthew 5:17-19. Let’s take a closer look at this verse and see if it can be used to support the idea that the Mosaic Law is still enforce today.

Mat 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

    Verse 17 is very straight forward and declares that Jesus purpose in coming here to earth was to fulfil the Law. If this was His purpose in coming then we know for sure He completed His task before going back to heaven. Jesus even said that He completed the work the Father sent Him to do (John 4:34, 17:4). On the cross Jesus cried out “It is finished”.

    The so-called law keepers say that verse 18 teaches that heaven and earth will pass away before even the smallest change takes place in the law.  Yet, that is not what verse 18 is teaching. Verse 18 is teaching that heaven and earth will pass away before one jot or one tittle is changed in the law “TILL ALL BE FULFILLED”. When was all fulfilled?  The answer is obvious, at the Cross of Christ Jesus. Now that Jesus fulfilled the law it could be changed. We see this fact in Hebrews 7:

Heb 7:12 “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”

    Notice, if one jot or one tittle cannot be changed till heaven and earth pass, then Hebrews 7:12 cannot be true. Not only that, but Hebrews 7:12 is far greater than just a jot or tittle being changed, it’s a major overhaul of the Mosaic Law. If the way many apply Matt. 5:17-19 in support of the Mosaic Law is true then it would it contradict the clear teaching in 2 Cor 3:11 about the Ten Commandments being done away with and abolished and many other verses as well.  If Matt. 5 teaches what the so-called law keepers  claim then 2 Cor. 3 is a major contradiction. Yet, if Matt 5 teaches that the Mosaic Law could be changed after “ALL BE FULFILLED” then there is no contradiction with 2 Cor 3 and many other verses, instead you have complete harmony the way Scripture should be.

    When Jesus spoke the words of verse 19 He was still under the Old Covenant even though man placed the gospels under the heading of the New Testament. The Old Covenant was in force until the death of Jesus. After the Cross the New Covenant started. Hebrews teaches this.

Heb 9:16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”

     So when Jesus uttered these words the Old Covenant was in fact in force, therefore if anyone at that time would teach that one should break the Sabbath or any other commandments they would have violated verse 19. After the cross a New Covenant with better promises was made, the Old Covenant passed."

"Subverters of Souls"  http://www.nlbchapel.org/Subverters.htm

"    Today, there are many who want to place Christians under the Ten Commandments, which was a Covenant that God made with the children of Israel from Moses to the cross only. In doing so, they tempt God and subvert the souls of those who listen to them (Acts 15:1,5,10,24). In effect, they become enemies of the cross of Christ and rob the liberty (which is the freedom to serve Christ) a child of God has in Christ. A child of God would do well not to listen to their deceptive lies and instead obey from the heart Galatians 4 and throw out the bondwoman.

Gal. 4:21 “Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?  22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.  23  But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.  24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.  25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.  26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.  27  For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.  28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.  29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.  30  Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.  31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.  5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”

    Law and grace cannot be mixed."

"Comparing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant."  http://www.nlbchapel.org/covenant.htm

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

Just a little bit more for consideration:

Matthew 22:36 NASB  "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Matthew 22:37 NASB  And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matthew 22:38 NASB  "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matthew 22:39 NASB  "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Matthew 22:40 NASB  "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."


Colossians 2:13 NASB  When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Colossians 2:14 NASB  having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Colossians 2:15 NASB  When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
Colossians 2:16 NASB  Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
Colossians 2:17 NASB  things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.


Galatians 2:19 NASB  "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
Galatians 2:20 NASB  "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
Galatians 2:21 NASB  "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."


Galatians 5:1 NASB  It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Galatians 5:2 NASB  Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Galatians 5:3 NASB  And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:4 NASB  You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:5 NASB  For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
Galatians 5:6 NASB  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 6:14 NASB  For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

[Allinall]

Hey all!  I just thought I'd drop in here and pop in my two cents worth!  

What I don't see in these posts are the typically wrong approaches to the Law we've all seen before, I.E. "Do this or lose that."  What I see are people trying to figure out exactly where the Law fits in the life of a believer in this dispensation.  Personally, I don't have a problem with people "keeping the Ten Commandments" per se.  Motivation is the key.  I like what Pastor Roger said:

Instead of the ten commandments being on stone for us they are now in the fleshy parts of our heart.

I think that it is key to understand that Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.  How did He do so?  Personally, I believe He did so primarily by making once for all the perfectly acceptable sacrifice that satisfied what each O.T. sacrifice covered.  Jesus sacrifice removed, once, for all.  But I also believe that Jesus was dealing with a bit more than just that.  To elaborate a bit on what Pastor Roger said, consider this:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.  Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.  For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
     
    "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'  But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults  his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.  So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.  Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison.  Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.
   
    "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'  But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.  And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
   
    "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'  But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
   
    "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'  But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,  or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.  And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.  Let what you say be simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything more than this comes from evil.
   
    "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'  But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.  And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.  And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.  Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
   
    "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'  But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?  And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?  You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:17-48

Jesus says He's come to fulfill the Law.  The Pharisees of the day had the outward practice of the Law down to a "T."  They believed they could be immoral with a woman in their mind, so long as they didn't actually do anything with her.  That way they weren't disobeying.  They believed they could say "FOOL!" so long as they didn't kill their brother, and not be guilty of murder.  Jesus said that it all starts in the heart.  If the heart lusts, the adultery has already happened.  If the heart is unjustly angry, the murder has already happened.  Jesus made internal what the Law made external.  

It's like me and my kids.  I want them to obey me first.  "Do this" or "Don't do that."  As they grow in their obedience without question, I am working in them the understanding of why.  I don't suffer the "why?" until the obedience proceeds the question.  God's much the same way.  He set up the Law.  "Do this" or "Don't do that."  Now He is working in us "why,"  and, I believe, to some extent back then as well.
And therein lies my problem: this concept of the heart was not lost to all previous believers.  I do believe, however, that complete understanding of what Jesus sacrifice provided most often was.  

The Law is good, Paul said.  But we aren't under the Law anymore, Paul also said.  I think we get into trouble when we begin to think that by doing something God commands we are granted "extra grace."  This is the complete antithesis of what Paul said in Romans 6:1-2...

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?  By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Grace doesn't abound more when we sin, nor does it abound more when we don't sin.  Obedience to the Law isn't to provide grace.  It is to picture grace.  Without Jesus death, burial and resurrection, and without His grace in giving us that payment as a gift, we'd be condemned by that Law.  But it is the grace of God by which every demand, punishment and wrath God had shown us in the Law and in the sacrifices, was satisfied when Jesus died on the cross.

If a believer then takes it upon themselves to obey the Law - they've missed the point.  We obey God because we love God, not to gain something from God.  God's grace is literally there for us to dive into every second of every day.  All we need to do, is go and get it.

Just a thought...

[nChrist]

Hello Allinall,

Brother, it's great to hear from you and see your little man floating in the cup.  

Judge Roy Bean is holding court in a day or two, and you've been AWOL. You're in luck - we don't have any rope.  
__________________________________

Brother, I think that every Christian understands exactly what you and Pastor Roger expressed. The Law was the schoolmaster that led us to knowledge of sin, and Christians are obviously to avoid sin, walk in the SPIRIT, and do the Will of GOD.

YES, everything fits together in perfect harmony. Everyone expresses things differently. It is completely true that we are no longer under the Law, but that does not mean that we have a license to sin. BUT, on the other side of the coin, we must understand the massive difference between Law and Grace. One way of putting it is the curse of sin and death was replaced by the Law of faith in Jesus Christ. Another way of putting it might be the schoolmaster of the Law was replaced by the Holy Spirit of God living in our hearts.

Sin is still defined, but over 600 laws and ordinances were boiled down to only 2, and the 2 are LOVE! We could also talk about Christian Liberty under Grace, but we could also talk about prudence in that liberty or abuse of that liberty. The big problem arises if we take our eyes off of JESUS and the CROSS and look to the Law. We should all know that the Law never Saved anyone, rather it's purpose was to condemn. NOW, we have the GOOD NEWS of JESUS and the CROSS!! - there is no condemnation for those in JESUS!!

This is a fascinating thread. I haven't been to sleep yet, so I hope that I didn't jumble up my thoughts too badly. I'm off to bed.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 2:11-14 NASB  For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.