What about the Greeks?

[foolbae1228]

Hello,


I am having some doubt in my faith, this is the only doubt, and if solved, I can be totally prepared.

My question is this: What happened to the Greeks and why?  Greeks were undoubtedly polytheistic, which breaks the first and most important commandment. They wouldn't have known to ask forgiveness, so when they died, would they be condemned to hell, or into heaven?

The Bible says that God was with man since the Beginning, so why wouldn't the Greeks have known to stay with God?

Please, I don't mean to offend anyone with this question, but I cannot find an answer myself without it being someone's opinion. Please, any answers give biblical or other official refferences, not opinions.

Thanks again,

Ryan

[Bronzesnake]

Are you talking pre or post Jesus? Also, why single out the Greeks?

Bronzesnake

[foolbae1228]

I'm not sure what you mean with pre or post Jesus, but the ancient Greeks were pre, if that helps.

I just used the Greeks because that is what comes to mind when I said polytheism. No real special reason. I could have used the Egyptians or the Aztecs or the Chinese, etc... Greeks were more famous for it I guess (a.k.a. Temple of Zeus, one of the Ancient Wonders). Sorry if this confused you.

Ryan

[2nd Timothy]

I think I know what you are asking.


Just for the record, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, thus there is none who have never NOT sinned except Gods own Son.

Those decendants from the earliest Humans Adam and Eve, no doubt knew of God.  Even the Egyptians, Greeks or whatever early civilizations.   They were not interested in God and chose to live according their own wills, much like people do today.

The fact of the matter is, you yourself now Know of God much like these early people did.   What will you do with that knowledge?   Choose to live according to your own will, or Gods by accepting His Son?   His forgiveness is only a prayer away just like it has been for everyone else who has ever walked the face of the earth.

Grace and Peace!

[foolbae1228]

2nd Tim, that was closer to what I was talking about, and you answered half of it.

I didn't really mention this part, so excuse me.

The second part is the reason people made other gods, which is another reason I pointed out the Greeks. They believed that, for example, Posiedon controled earthquakes and tidal waves. Everyone knew that THAT was the cause, but scientists know today that earthquakes are caused by plates shifting in the earths surface. Is God just some way of dealing with the unknown? Another example would be the ancient salamander. Salamanders would be seen leaving a burning forest, thus geniuses made the assumption that salamanders were the cause. They blew their observations out of proportion. I believe that Jesus was a real person and did beautiful things, but were some of His deads unexplainable at the time and thus expanded to a Godly proportion?

Please, I want to learn, it's just hard with this amount of doubt.

Ryan

[Bronzesnake]

2nd Tim, that was closer to what I was talking about, and you answered half of it.

I didn't really mention this part, so excuse me.

The second part is the reason people made other gods, which is another reason I pointed out the Greeks. They believed that, for example, Posiedon controled earthquakes and tidal waves. Everyone knew that THAT was the cause, but scientists know today that earthquakes are caused by plates shifting in the earths surface. Is God just some way of dealing with the unknown? Another example would be the ancient salamander. Salamanders would be seen leaving a burning forest, thus geniuses made the assumption that salamanders were the cause. They blew their observations out of proportion. I believe that Jesus was a real person and did beautiful things, but were some of His deads unexplainable at the time and thus expanded to a Godly proportion?

Please, I want to learn, it's just hard with this amount of doubt.

Ryan

Hello Ryan.

If I'm reading you correctly, you seem to be relating Greek mythology to the Judaeo/Christian God. In other words, I believe you are not as interested in what the Greeks did, but rather, was Jesus just a man who Jews (early Christians) subscribed "Godly" attributes to, because of a lack scientific learning and understanding, much in the same manner as the Greeks apparently did.

Well, there is substantial secular evidence, which corroborates the Biblical record. There are historical records, scientific evidence and archaeological evidence. The same cannot be said of Greek, or any other mythology, or religious belief system from antiquity.

There is actually excellent evidence, which tends to lead us to believe some ancient civilizations were strongly influenced by the Old Testament. Take the Egyptians for example;

The story of Joseph...

  Gen 42:6 And Joseph [was] the governor over the land, [and] he [it was] that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him [with] their faces to the earth.

Joseph was a Jew, who became second in command in Egypt.

Exd 1:7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.  

The Jews multiplied and became numerous in Egypt. We see strong evidence and parallels between the Judaeo God and Egyptian Myth. The two are intermingled.

Of course, it went sour for the Jews as the following verses describe. The Egyptians turned the Jews into a great slave work force. There is very good evidence which shows how the Jews from that point onward fro over 400 years of captivity, actually began to take on more of the Egyptian mythological religion. God, through Moses rebuked them severely for this, and that is the main reason why they laboured for forty years in the desert.

Exd 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.  

Exd 1:9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel [are] more and mightier than we:  

Exd 1:10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and [so] get them up out of the land.  

Exd 1:11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.  

Exd 1:12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.  

Exd 1:13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:  

Exd 1:14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, [was] with rigour.  

Exd 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one [was] Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:  

Exd 1:16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see [them] upon the stools; if it [be] a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it [be] a daughter, then she shall live.  

You can find the same intermingling of Old Testament and local, or regional mythology in almost every nation, which conquered and took Jewish captives. Ancient Babylon is another great example. There are to this day, monuments and ancient literature, which retell Biblical events such as Jonah and the whale, and Noah's Ark. In many instances the names are changed and locals are switched in order to give the prestige to the conquerors.

Bronzesnake

[Bronzesnake]

Another interesting consideration...

 satan. Remember why he fell? Read the following verses, and then I will make some startling comments.


 satan declared that he was equal with God.

 Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:


God describes satan's attributes - satan's wisdom, power and beauty. God points out the fact that satan used all his God given gifts for greed and self gratification.

Eze 28:3 Behold, thou [art] wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:  


 Eze 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:  


 Eze 28:5 By thy great wisdom [and] by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:


 God describes some consequences of satan's rebellion.

Eze 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;  

Eze 28:7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

OK, now remember back to the garden. satan appeared as a serpent. But, it wasn't the kind of snake we know today.

Read the following verse, and I'll expound upon it afterward.

 Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:  

 Do you see the inference? "upon thy belly shalt thou go" The serpent was obviously not a ground dwelling, belly slithering creature before he was cursed. The serpent was upright, and perhaps even had wings!

 Now I want to direct your attention to one of the greatest mysteries in history - the pyramids.

 Let's begin with the mothers of all pyramids. Are you aware that if a very rich man/woman/corporation contracted the world's leading, technological engineering and construction company to recreate the Egyptian pyramids, it could not be done?

 Even the world's most powerful cranes cannot lift some of the stones, which were lifted thousands of years ago. The most gifted engineers and prestigious universities continue to argue and debate how it was done back then, and none even dream of how it could be done today.

 Now think about the other great pyramids - in Peru and China for example. At a time when historians and archaeologists tell us there was no contact between the ancient civilizations, we have totally isolated civilizations all building pyramids!

 As if that wasn't mind boggling enough, they all have something even more astonishing in common. They all have winged serpents carved or otherwise depicted on, and or within them!

satan believes he is equal with God. satan imitates everything God creates. satan actually walked on God's Holy mountain!!!

Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.  

 What? Holy what? MOUNTAIN - scholars today tell us that the ancient pyramids were actually built to imitate mountains!!

satan is an imitator!

Could this all be a huge coincidence? yes, of course. Is our belief in Jesus dependant on whether this is true or not? Absolutely not. However, it is very, very mysterious in all it's seemingly Biblical overtures, as well as the fact of it's ancient technology, which is to this day an impossibility to repeat.

Something to consider is all.


Bronzesnake

[PeterAV]

Very interesting post,Bronzesnake.thanks.

[2nd Timothy]

2nd Tim, that was closer to what I was talking about, and you answered half of it.

I didn't really mention this part, so excuse me.

The second part is the reason people made other gods, which is another reason I pointed out the Greeks. They believed that, for example, Posiedon controled earthquakes and tidal waves. Everyone knew that THAT was the cause, but scientists know today that earthquakes are caused by plates shifting in the earths surface. Is God just some way of dealing with the unknown? Another example would be the ancient salamander. Salamanders would be seen leaving a burning forest, thus geniuses made the assumption that salamanders were the cause. They blew their observations out of proportion. I believe that Jesus was a real person and did beautiful things, but were some of His deads unexplainable at the time and thus expanded to a Godly proportion?

Please, I want to learn, it's just hard with this amount of doubt.

Ryan

Ryan, I understand your doubt.   Its a human trait after all!  

As you say, there really was a man named Jesus who walked the earth some 2000 years ago.   He is the most documented individual ever written about.   So yes He was really here.   Its a lot like forensic evidence if you will.  For example, how would we go about proving that you and I had this conversation 2000 years down the road?  What was said, what were we like, what did we do?   Well it would have to be corroberated by witnesses who heard us talking...or forensics.  Theres no physical evidence that it took place (that is if we were litterally speaking and not leaving posts behind).

We read that Jesus did many miraculous things.   The most important being His resurrection.   How is it that this came to be known?   His followers of course.   The ones who fled in fear for their lives when Jesus was arrested.   The ones who knew they were being sought after by the authorities most likely to also be put to death as their Master had been.  In the end, they all died worse deaths than Christ did (with the exception of one I believe?) Why would they foolishly go out and shout "Christ is risen" from the mountain tops knowing it was not true?   I'll tell you why....because they saw Jesus with their own eyes and KNEW He was the risen Lord.   There are people today who also risk their lives for the Gospel of this same Lord, never having seen Him.  Why?  Because they KNOW Him by His saving power in their lives.   His story has changed untold millions of peoples lives.  Why?  Because of hearing the simple truth of the this Gospel, and receiving it by faith.

Christ is truth, and Life.   He died for your sins and purchased your pardon.  But you can only receive it by Faith.

Believe me, I understand your doubts, I have been there myself.   But I assure you that truth is knocking at the door of you heart friend.   Don't let your doubt rob you of that.   Bring your life, sin AND doubts to the Lord.  He is waiting with open arms, and wants you to know His tender mercy and Love for you.

I will be praying for you Ryan!

Blessings!