Isa 17 study [ yes i'm back ]

[twobombs]

Opening volley:

Isa 17:1  The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
Isa 17:4  And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean.
Isa 17:12  Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!
Isa 17:14  And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

Here we can read how the city of Damascus is destroyed in a few hours time(v14); also marking the time of "Jacobs' Trouble"(v.4, Jer 30:7), the time, times and a half  time (3.5 years) in which Israel is oppressed by the nations. Clearly it is visible that during the fulfillment of Isa 17 this has period is already underway.

Jer 30:7  Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

How could this calamity have happened?

Israel came into a very, very narrow corner to nuke the capitol of Syria. Let's go to Matt.24 to get some more information :

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The abomination of desolation, also named the abomination that makes desolate.
Let's go to Daniel :

Dan 12:10  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11  And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.  A thousand, two hundred and ninety days : 3.5 years.

What is this detestable thing that destroys and maketh desolate?

And even more : suddenly it became quiet on the other side of the pond……
Why is America not coming to the rescue for Israel ?





First things first: let us focus in the political situation and the movement of troops in and around the time of Jacob's trouble and the destruction of Damascus.


1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Paul here refers to the peace and safety-deal that is struck in Daniel, Isiah also mentioned the deal when he writes :

Isa 28:15  Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Also in:

Jer 30:6  Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
Jer 30:7  Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Details of this political deal can be read in Daniel :

Dan 8:25  And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

The person described here is called in verse 23 a king of fierce countenance,  direct translated as " a mighty mouth" (az paw-neem') which is a pointer towards the little horn that speaks great words  (eg: Dan 7:8 )

This king is helping the Jewish people to confirm this deal that they'll be protected and have peace, even when a vast army comes in and runs over them. They think that the king will protect them…..

Isaiah 28 clearly states that the people know that they'll be threatened, yet they believe their peace is secure through this covenant. Isaiah 28:18 states :

Isa 28:18  And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Notice once again the words "overflowing scourge" directly translated as a "rushy whip" (sha^t?aph sho^t? )  



Analysis of troop movement in the last days will reveal the rushy whip; this whip is also called "whirlwind" in Dan 11:40. But how did this plot thicken ?

Remember, we're still talking about the same king that confirmed the covenant (of death) and apparently he has his armies close to Israel. His political career is even more detailed portrayed in :

Dan 11:36  And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

And further:

Dan 11:40  And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Notice: any direction that is mentioned in a prophecy is from the place it has been prophecied from. In Daniels' case we are dealing with ancient Babylon; modern day Iraq.

The king of the north is identified as "the bear" or "Gog and Magog" (Eze 38), modern day Russia and some rogue Islamic states. They will conspire to attack Israel.

This overflow in verse 40 is overflowing and passing through Iraq (towards the Holy Land.) is the same as mentioned in Isa 28:18. The sudden destruction that comes upon the Jewish state gives the reaction as described in Isaiah 17. Read again :

Isa 17:14  And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

The attack starts in the evening, and the response on that attack is done before the next morning; Isa 17v1b […] Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

On to the big question that was mentioned at the beginning of this document !

Why is America not responding, not retaliating ?


Ezechiel 38 will unveil this 'mystery'. For a mystery she has been….

Eze 38:2  Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,


Eze 38:9  Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
Eze 38:10  Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
Eze 38:11  And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
Eze 38:12  To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.


Ezechiel once again confirmes and identifies the whirlwind of Dan 11:40b. In verse 10 however the plot thikens in a very big way. Verse 10 reads : "at the same time shall [..]thou think an evil thought:"

Eze 38:11  And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

The land of unwalled villages is identified as the USA, one reason is that because of the covenant that is confirmed and protected by them, and make them desolate (v12).

Once again: an abomination that maketh desolate. (v12)

In short: the USA is targeted by several nuclear devices and destroyed at the same time the armies do their run towards Israel. At that time, Matthew 24 reads :


Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.



Appendixes :


Rev. Kenneth Hagin confirmed the imminent nuclear attack on Israel on March the 2nd 2005 through the TCT Network. He also received confirmation about this attack on Israel from Mr. Netanyahu, 2nd in command in the Israeli cabinet. Mr. Netanyahu also pointed out that with the intercontinental ballistic missile Iran now has, a nucleair device could potentially hit targets as far as the coastal cities of the USA.


Received from the Lord on January the 29th, 2005 +/- 3:00

"The region where you live now will see the fulfillment of the prophecy for the whole world in regards to Mijn Spirit that will cover the earth as a blanket. Even the full outporing of My Holy Spirit will not get some places out of darkness." ( Europe and other places came to my mind )

This place and others will receive this. This is the harvest, as often called 'the end-time harvest' Where I saw the image of an atomic bomb exploding.
" Satan has desired a harvest for himself and it will come in the appearance of the black/pale horse (in Rev.)" en He went on with the time after I thought about the timing. "The time of My harvest will be fulfilled before that time, the other will take place in the period of 1260 days, before the end of days, My Coming"

[Bronzesnake]

 Good to have you back my friend!  

I don't have time to respond to your post at the moment. I'll get back as soon as I can.

Bronzesnake

[Jemidon2004]

Has Damascus ceased to be a city? No. I've found that it is the only Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled before the Rapture. I'm not sure of it's time frame however, I know this prophecy hasn't been fully fulfilled because Damascus is still operational as a city. So I wonder, will it happen before, or after the Rapture? Just a few thoughts. God Bless

Joshua

[twobombs]

HTML - version on: http://www.geocities.com/twobombs/isa17study.html
This version has italics, fonts and such for reading improvement.

Jemidon2004 : if you read the document carefully you will find out that the rapture you are expecting might be a somewhat different then expected 'rapture'....

But I absolutely agree with you that after the fullfillment Isa17 we are on a one-way lane towards the rapture and second coming of Christ.

The fullfillment of Isa17 however might not be very far off; once again, please read this study top-to-bottom.
A lot, if not all, pieces are in place.

[BigD]

twobombs:
We are not living in the "last days" of prophesy. Those last days started at Pentecost (Acts 2:12-20) and were interrupted with the setting aside of the nation Israel.

Today we are living in the dispensation of grace, which was kept secret since the world began, and revealed to the Apostle Paul. This dispensation cannot be found in the OT prophesies or in the gospels. This dispensation will come to a close at the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ. The rapture also cannot be found in prophesy or the gospels. It was part of the "mystery" that was revealaed to the Apostle Paul.

Paul does tell believers that they do not have to worry about the "last days" (Tribulation) of prophesy, but he does warn us about conditions during the last days of this dispensation.

There are NO OT prophesies that need be fulfilled prior to the rapture of the Church as J-2004 stated.

The "last days" that started in Acts 2:15-20 will resume with the rapture of the Chruch.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Jemidon2004]

LoL. You slay me with laughter BigD. You said there are no OT prophecies that need to be fulfilled before the Rapture. That's odd...if i remember correctly, Christ fulfilled quite a numerous bunch of OT Prophecies with His birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection...lol. Plus, if you'll read my post again, I said i wasn't sure of the time frame of the events of Isaiah 17. I never said when it would happen, I simply said I wasn't sure of the time frame. As to whether or not it happens before the rapture, or after the rapture. I never said there was a need for Prophecy to be fulfilled. However, in Scripture we see that there are several prophecies that will be fullfilled in the latter days. Here we go again with the interruption of the seting aside of the nation of Israel. Havn't we already discussed this before? Sheesh. Anyway, class is getting underway so I must call it quits for now. God Bless

Joshua

[BigD]

b]Jemidon2004 posted:[/b]

LoL. You slay me with laughter BigD. You said there are no OT prophecies that need to be fulfilled before the Rapture. That's odd...if i remember correctly, Christ fulfilled quite a numerous bunch of OT Prophecies with His birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection...lol. Plus, if you'll read my post again, I said i wasn't sure of the time frame of the events of Isaiah 17. I never said when it would happen, I simply said I wasn't sure of the time frame. As to whether or not it happens before the rapture, or after the rapture. I never said there was a need for Prophecy to be fulfilled. However, in Scripture we see that there are several prophecies that will be fullfilled in the latter days. Here we go again with the interruption of the seting aside of the nation of Israel. Havn't we already discussed this before? Sheesh. Anyway, class is getting underway so I must call it quits for now. God Bless.

BigD responds:
You posted: "Has Damascus ceased to be a city? No. I've found that it is the only Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled before the Rapture. I'm not sure of it's time frame however,... "

What you posted indicates to me that somewhere before the rapture you believe that Damascus will cease to be a city.

Damascus ceasing to be a city is OT prophesy and WILL NOT occur before the rapture.

Now you got me LOL!

It is highly recommended that if the school you attend has a reading comprehension course that you enroll in it. Or maybe you should change schools.

You, Bronze and others still have not SHOWN ME  that Joel, in Joel 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation and/or Peter, at Pentecost, didn't know where he was in the timetable of prophesy. Isn't Peter quoting Joel about the "last days" almost word for word? Wasn't Peter's understanding of the OT scriptures opened up to him by Jesus prior to his asscension? Isn't Peter speaking "as the Spirit gave him utterance?" Aren't the "last days" signs beginning to appear? When will you and your friends begin to answer those questions? NEVER I suspect.

My Bible teaches me that two things must occur prior to the establishment of the Kingdom upon the earth. 1 - Christ must suffer, and 2 - Israel must go through the Tribulation.  Now explain to me HOW, in Acts 3:19-21, can Peter offer the kingdom to Israel if Christ hadn't already suffered, (as we know he did), and the Tribulation hadn't even started yet? When will you and the others explain that to me?

If my understanding is in error, PLEASE SHOW ME from scripture my error. PLEASE DON'T JUST TELL ME. I don't learn anything that way.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[Jemidon2004]

It seems you just focused on "Has damascus ceased to be a city, no I've found that it has yet to be fulfilled before ther Rapture." Not even looking at: " I'm not sure of it's time frame however,..." What I posted says exactly what I meant for it to say. In Scripture, we're not given an exact time period as to when it will cease to be a city...considering it has come under attack and has been destroyed partially once before in history. Another thing, it is highly recommended to you, that you not resort to telling me that I should attend a reading comprehension course because I have no need for that. I'm in Honors classes and have as well taken an Advanced Placement HISTORY class. So I sincerely doubt, I need reading comprehension. I'm quite up today and more advanced in my reading abilities than that of my current peers here. If I changed schools, I wouldn't graduate on time. I highly resent that you make such a recommendation. Just to give you insight as to my reading abilities. I'm sure you have read the novel Charleston, or Heaven and Hell by John Jakes. I was reading those novels in the 7th and 8th grades. In 7th grade, i took a reading comprehension test, and I was comprehending things on the level of a junior in college. So I'm quite sure of my abilities in reading comprehension. In reference to your statement about Joel...it's hard to show something to someone, when one refuses to accept what we have given and dismisses it as wrong. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. you can whip it till it's dead, then neither of you have recieved a reward. You are without transportation, and the horse is dead. In the end both of you lose. See, we've been over this before about the Tribulation and the setting aside of the Jews, I don't wish to go over it again because it's a waste of time arguing in circles with you. Again, i suggest you think about what recommendations you make before you make them about my reading abilities and comprehension. I assure you, the Lord has blessed me far beyond my years. Don't make the same mistake again. I trust you won't. God Bless

Joshua

[BigD]

Jemidon-2004 posted

"Has Damascus ceased to be a city? No. I've found that it is the only Prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled before the Rapture. I'm not sure of it's time frame however,... "

BigD responded:

What you posted indicates to me that somewhere before the rapture you believe that Damascus will cease to be a city.

Damascus ceasing to be a city is OT prophesy and WILL NOT occur before the rapture.

J-2004 replied:

It seems you just focused on "Has damascus ceased to be a city, no I've found that it has yet to be fulfilled before ther Rapture." Not even looking at: " I'm not sure of it's time frame however,..." What I posted says exactly what I meant for it to say.

BigD responds:
Your complete statement inticates that you believe the timeframe will be sometime BEFORE the rapture. If what you wrote is "exactly" what you meant to say, Then what I responded to was 'exactly what you wrote.

Maybe I was wrong in saying that you needed a reading comprehension course. Maybe I should have said a course in effective writing.

Jemi, YOU HAVE NEVER responded from scripture to what I requested in my last post to you. Yes you have told me what you believe but I am quite certain that you will NEVER answer my questions from scritpure. The scripture that I used to support my contention comes straight from the KJV of the Bible. What chapter and verse of the Bible do you use to tell me what you believe that refutes my viewpoint. How can I believe what you say when you don't SHOW ME.

About the easiest way to SHOW ME that my contention that the Tribulation started in Acts 2:15-20, is by SHOWING ME that Joel in 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation. Peter in Acts 2:15-20 quotes Joel almost word for word and says that BUT THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET JOEL."

Either Peter didn't understand the prophetic timetable or Joel wasn't speaking about the Tribulation. WHICH IS IT?

If Joel was speaking of the Tribulation, and Peter, who was speaking as the Spirit gave him utterance, was speaking the truth about the tribulation, and it had not been interrupted, the Tribulation would have ended after seven years with the 2nd coming of Christ. It would have meant that Israel, as a nation, had repented, as Peter requested in Acts 3:19-20, Jesus would have returned at the end of the Tribulation. There would have been not need for this dispensation of grace. The kingdom would have been established 7 years after Pentecost.

I am going to apoligize in advance for what I am about to write, and I don't want you to consider this a personal attack. It HURTS ME to have to go to these measures, but either PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[twobombs]

BigD & all interested :

Please read

Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

and

Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32a And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered

Joe 2:32b for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


It is not a coincidence that Paul first states that there is no difference between Jew and Greek, immediately followed with the call upon the name of the Lord,
And Joel describing an important event (2:31a) preceding 'the great and terrible day of the Lord', and once again followed by : "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be delivered' (2:32a)

However: big-city citizens of the USA have a very big chance not being able to witness that 'great and terrible day', nor the day of Jacob's trouble. Please read the start of this thread that deals with this.

Even more info on this at http://www.geocities.com/twobombs/rapture.html (updated content)

[BigD]

twobombs posted

Please read

Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

BigD responds:
The reason that there is no longer any difference between the Jew and the Gentile is because, according to Romans 11:7-12 the Jew has been "set aside" just as the Gentile was back in Genesis 11; at the Tower of Babel.

We first learn this in Acts 10 when God informs Peter that he is no longer to consider the Gentile unclean.

Prior to the setting aside of Israel, salvation/justification was through Israel. Paul tells us in Romans 3:1,2 "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oricles of God."

So what that means, prior to God setting the nation of Israel aside, salvation/justification was through Israel. If one who was a Gentile wanted to serve the true and living God, that one would have to become a Jew (proselyte) and place themselves under the Law.

The Law was only given to Israel. Being Israel is set aside; so is the Law. The Law will again be in effect after the rapture of the Chruch, and Israel as a nation repents and recognizes Jesus as their long promised Messiah.

Paul says in Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all (Jew and Gentile) in unbelief, that He might might have mercy upon all.

Salvation/justification today is not for one to become a Jew (proselyte). Today there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile. We are all in the same "set aside boat." Salvation/justification today is not by doing the deeds/works of the Law by FAITH. It is obtained by putting our FAITH and trust in the Cross work (death, burial, and resurrection) of Christ. It wasn't that way when Jesus walked upon the earth. The purpose of the Cross was still a secret/mystery (see 1Cor.2:7,8)

Being there is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile, anyone can call upon the name of the Lord and be saved on the same basis - FAITH in the Cross work of Christ.

twobombs continues:

and

Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32a And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered.

Joe 2:32b for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

BigD responds:
In the above passages, Joel is speaking about a period during the Tribulation. It has nothing to do with members of the Body of Christ today because we will have been raptured to heaven during the time of the Tribulation.  Yes, during the Tribulation; those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Also, they must endure to the end (Matt.24:13).

twobombs goes on:

It is not a coincidence that Paul first states that there is no difference between Jew and Greek, immediately followed with the call upon the name of the Lord,
And Joel describing an important event (2:31a) preceding 'the great and terrible day of the Lord', and once again followed by : "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be delivered' (2:32a)

However: big-city citizens of the USA have a very big chance not being able to witness that 'great and terrible day', nor the day of Jacob's trouble. Please read the start of this thread that deals with this.

Even more info on this at http://www.geocities.com/twobombs/rapture.html (updated).

BigD responds:
God has never turned anyone away that had a desire to serve Him. Since the fall of Adam, one was saved/justified by calling upon the name of the Lord and doing what God required at that point in time of human history. Incidently, no one knew about the cross and its purpose until it was revealed to the Apostle Paul. It "was kept secret since the world began."

No member of the Body of Christ will experience the 'great and terrible day of the Lord' regardless if they live in the USA or not. They will ALL be in heaven because of the rapture.

I only read a few paragraphs on the site you mentioned above to know that the rest was not worth my time to read. I would have learned what you believe but not what the Bible teaches in context.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Much and Love The Lord!

[twobombs]

BigD: I am happy that you are 100% sure of your case....  

[BigD]

twobombs
I'm happy thay you are happy that I am happy.

If what I believe is what the Bible teaches, why wouldn't I be happy? The only way that I could be happier is when what I believe is in error and someone SHOWS ME the error of my belief. I'm still in the learning mode.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[BigD]

It appears as if Jemidon-2004 took the 2nd option in my last sentence to him. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

[twobombs]

BigD: daniels' 69th week ended exactly on the day when Jesus entered Jerusalem and spoke the words:

Luk 13:34  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

confirmed by:

Mat 21:43  Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

There have been people that calculated the exact day from the days of Daniel ( chuck misslers' khouse.org comes to mind as one example )