Artistic question

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Ok. Me and my friends were having a discussion about whether or not the color black has shades. I think that black is black and there are no "shades." If it's not black, than it's either gray or a darker shade of whatever color is in question.

I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, can anyone help me out a bit? Or prove that I'm wrong? It's important that I find out...

[Evangelist]

Ok. Me and my friends were having a discussion about whether or not the color black has shades. I think that black is black and there are no "shades." If it's not black, than it's either gray or a darker shade of whatever color is in question.

I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, can anyone help me out a bit? Or prove that I'm wrong? It's important that I find out...

Hehehe. Let's begin with the following definitions.
White is the absence of color.
Black is the presence of all color.
Gray is a combination of black and white in varying degrees.

Therefore....black has as many shades as can possibly exist between full black (100% of all color) and white (0% of all color).

Some shades of black are actually red....some are green...and some are blue (the three primaries).

So....you have shades of black....or shades of white. Kinda like a glass being half full or half empty.  

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Hehehe. Let's begin with the following definitions.
White is the absence of color.
Black is the presence of all color.

Actually, I believe you have that backwards. The dictionary definition of black is:

black (n): Total absence of light

And therefore, the absense of color. White is the presence of all color, if I'm not mistaken.

And I argue that the shades of black you claim to be red, yellow, or blue, are really just darker shades of those colors, not black itself.

[Soldier4Christ]

Yet the Webster Dictionary defines white as "free of color".

[Evangelist]

Hehehe. Let's begin with the following definitions.
White is the absence of color.
Black is the presence of all color.

Actually, I believe you have that backwards. The dictionary definition of black is:

black (n): Total absence of light

And therefore, the absense of color. White is the presence of all color, if I'm not mistaken.

And I argue that the shades of black you claim to be red, yellow, or blue, are really just darker shades of those colors, not black itself.

No, I don't have it backwards. There are two color spectrums to consider....RGB, and CMYK. RGB is the spectrum  represented in that which you see on screen, as in TV and computer monitor. There are only three colors in this spectrum, red, green, and blue.

CMYK is the color that is printable, and consists of cyan, magenta, yellow and black.  In this spectrum, black is the presence of all colors. 100% Cyan, 100% Magenta, 100% Yellow, make black.  Remove all of the colors, and there is white.

Further, there is no color defined for "light", as in the dictionary definition. Light is the opposite of dark, as white is the opposite of black. Black cannot be the absence of "light", especially considering that light comes in many flavors....incandescent, which is primarily yellow with a bit of magenta and cyan; flourescent, which is predominately cyan with a touch of yellow (making it bluish), and others.

Finally, if you mix 10% cyan, 10% magenta, 10% yellow, you will have a "gray" color of a very light shade.  In print work, an excellent mix to represent black is 25/25/25/100, which gives the color black a very high sheen and "bite" that stands out, as opposed to a heavier mix that results in a "muddy" black.

Since I am a graphic artist specializing in both print and web, and have been for about 35 years, I have this funny feeling that I may know about what I'm talking about. If you want the info, fine....if you don't, fine. But don't make the mistake of telling me I have it backwards.

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Settle down there, Evangelist. It's not that big a deal.

In any case, I asked my dad, who is also a graphic artist, and he gave me the same basic explanation of RGB and CMYK.

In terms of the RGB spectrum, I'm right about there being only one shade of black. If it's not black, it's either a shade of gray or a shade of whatever color is on the palette at the moment.

In CMYK, since black is a part of the spectrum, cyan, magenta, or yellow can be added to black to make different shades.

The basic difference between the spectrums, as I understand it, is RGB is defined in terms of light and CMYK is defined in terms of print.

Don't misunderstand; I've worked with Photoshop enough to know the difference.

As far as the definition of "black" I gave, that's straight form a dictionary on my computer. Maybe I took a defintion in the wrong context. If you want another definition, black is the achromatic color that least resembles white.

In RGB color mode, combining red, green, and blue results in white. In CMYK, as you said, combining cyan, magenta, and yellow results in black.

To summarize, it all depends on what spectrum you're working with.

[Symphony]

Or, perhaps, one is transparent, the other opaque?


Or, one is the light itself; the other is what happens when that same light is reflected off different pigments (as in print)?

[M]

I remember something about tints being pure colors mixed with white such as red + white = tint of pink    and pure colors mixed with black as shades  such as blue + black = gray/blue.    I am not sure what black + white = gray is called then.  I think it was called a gray scale value??

[Evangelist]

While there are a number of "color spectrums", there is only one "real" color spectrum, and the colors that are in it are cyan, magenta, and yellow.

Any visible light broken out through a prism will show those primaries, plus "shades" that are a mix of those colors in varying degrees, and appear to us as another color.

EG: 100% cyan, plus 50% magenta = medium blue.
100% cyan + 100% yellow = med. dk green.
and so on.

Any color other than c, m, or y is a combination of those, even though it may be called a different color.  A "shade" of a given color is just a change in the combination of the primaries.

RGB is a "false" color spectrum developed because of electronics. In the 30's, the advent of color tv required the development of colored phosphors that could be excited electically, and thus produce a light source. On the inside of a tv screen (or color monitor), the screen is coated with phosphors of the primary R, G, and B (which are made up of chemicals that have been produced from the C, M, and Y.  Depending on the amount of electrical energy (frequency) focused on the phosphors, they then glow. Depending on how much energy is focused, you will get a result of "shades" or mixes of the three primaries.  When there is no exciting energy, the result is a blank, or black screen. When all are excited to the max, you have white.

Print media, or cmyk, produces color from the reflection of light from its surface, while tv and monitors (rgb) produce color internally from excited photons/electrons, thus it is a light source in itself.

Any color, or tint, or shade, is actually a combination of other primary colors.

[david87]

black is black

[Reba]

Los Bravos

Black is black
I want my baby back
It's gray, it's gray
Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

If I had my way
She'd be back today
But she don't intend
To see me again, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

I can't choose
It's too much to lose
My love's too strong
Wow! Maybe if she
would come back to me
Then it can't go wrong

Bad is bad
That I feel so sad
It's time, it's time
That I found peace of mind, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

I can't choose
It's too much to lose
My love's too strong
Wow! Maybe if she
would come back to me
Then it can't go wrong

Black is black
I want my baby back
It's gray, it's gray
Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

[nChrist]

Reba,

   Golden Oldies - Yes, I remember that song, but some of the teens here are going to think that both of us have lost our marbles.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

II Corinthians 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

[Kris777]

Reba,

   Golden Oldies - Yes, I remember that song, but some of the teens here are going to think that both of us have lost our marbles.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

II Corinthians 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I know I lost my marbles.


Sorry, just random.  I wouldn't know, I'm tired. I don't make sense.

[Sapphire W34P0N]

Please, please, please tell me that's sarcasm, Silver.

[nChrist]

Kris777,

     ROFL - That animation is a hoot! Thanks - I needed that laugh.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 100:4  Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.