Pride, Arrogance, and the Bible.

[Shammu]

Pride, Arrogance, and the Bible.

The Bible speaks constantly and very plainly to issues of pride, of arrogance,  offering the Christian insight into the identification of each trait, the costs of each, and in one case the benefits, and their causes. Understanding these insights and heeding their messages is essential if Christians are to remain the salt and the light of this world, are to remain in good standing with God, and not cut themselves off from witnessing opportunities. The Bible speaks to pride, arrogance, in 41 of its 66 books, with a distribution such that every major writer has something to say, and such that every section has something to add to the pictures which God is using them to paint of this trait. It is interesting to note, from a scan of the listings, that a significant amount of what God has to say about this trait is said either in the context of prophecy to His people Israel, in their worst states, or by David, in times when he was most, or least concerned about his vertical relationship. Some writers, especially the prophets, concentrate on the effects of one of the negative traits, while others concentrate more on the desirability of humility. One of the most interesting exercises in this study was to take one version's concordance, and use another version of the Scriptures to study the passages.

In the cases of pride and of arrogance, the only result was that very often, the two words appear simply to have been interchanged in the translation process. Other passages, though, did yield a good definition of arrogance, the first word studied. 2 Cor 12:20 suggests that arrogance is a group vice, or at least aided by groups. The passage also suggests that arrogance is a verbal vice. 2 Kings 19:28 finds the NIV translation to be "insolence", and compares the trait with a rage against God. It is a short logical hop from raging against God to simply replacing Him with some other, more easily controlled problem-solver, or to paring Him down and using "our version" to calm our rage. The same translation is found in Isaiah 16:6, where insolence is compared with conceit, a state which the passage says God considers empty. Isa 37:29 and Jer 48:29. Jeremiah 50:29 translates arrogance as "defies the Lord", which seems similar to the rage spoken of in the passages above. The passage also serves to verify the possibility of whole groups being infected by this disease, because the whole city wound up being destroyed. While it is impossible to go into detail here, I am of the opinion that a great many of the social ills from which the US is suffering today can be traced back to arrogance.

God tells us that he wants us to be firm in our faith and life in following him.

James 1:6-7 6 For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

SPEAKING BOLDLY (zealously) DOES NOT EQUATE WITH SPEAKING OFFENSIVELY.

Why?  Do you really think speaking offensively gives more credence to your message?  NOT!  Read these verses:

2 Tim 2:22-23 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
 
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain (empty, profitless).

Quite clearly God does not want us arguing with our fellow Christians.  God calls it an abomination as stated here:

Prov 6:16-19 16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. KJV

What is "discord"?  Clearly it is "strife" or "brawling" and is related to "judgment".

Do you use charity in your interacting with your brethren?
1 Cor 13:1-2 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity , I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity , I am nothing.

The New Testament is full of examples where people erred by failing to recognize Jesus' use of figurative language. When Jesus spoke of the temple of His body John 2:21 the Jews erred in thinking of a physical temple and sought His death on the basis of this mistaken literal interpretation Matt. 26:61. Nicodemus' literal interpretation led him to wonder if being "born again" meant to "enter a second time into his mother's womb" John3:4 When Jesus spoke of "a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life" the Samaritan erred in wanting a literal drink of water John 4:10-15. These examples are sufficient to demonstrate that a literal (nonfigurative) interpretation can lead to mistaken conclusions.

Understanding the Bible can be difficult, but God wants us to comprehend and apply His Word to our lives. He gave us the Bible so we can grow in our relationship with Him.

The Bible is the Bible, so what is it saying to the layman without all these interpretations? I found it to be the Word of God that carries very simple messages for all to understand.

The New Testament continually talks about straying from the path not conducting our lives as Jesus and the prophets taught. Even during the time when people who personally experienced Jesus Christ and His resurrection were still living, many who became Christians were swayed away from good Christian principles and continually needed reminding of the proper way to live their lives. Bad people within the churches were already interpreting the Good News for their own agenda and influencing others. As it says in the Bible, "The world around us is under the power and control of the evil one. So, we must stop loving this evil world, for the world offers only the lust for physical pleasure, the lust for everything we see, and pride in our possessions." It appears that the Holy Spirit life we receive from accepting the Good News is in for a big battle!

So what happens if we don't stay on the right path? Yes, when we're born again our sins are washed away, but what about after that? Although we're saved by grace, it appears to me that we will be judged by our deeds. There is accountability. There is a judgment day. And we had better fear the Lord. So we need constant reminding. We can join a church, listen to the pastor, and fellowship with other believers. But what if we get lead astray by misguided people within that church, or the institution of the church changes its agenda to fit the changing times? One thing that will not change is the Bible. It's compelling enough and complicated enough with enough history, and information, and guidance, and direction to always keep us interested and following in the right footsteps. The Bible is there to help us believe. And, maybe more important, it's there to help us to continue believing.

By the way, my spell checker, and grammer checker went nuts, over this one. Yes, I've worked on this, quite a while today/night/morning, whatever it is now. Since my last post, to the forum. Now, I'm heading off to bed.

Resting with the Lord.
Bob

[M]

"Although we're saved by grace, it appears to me that we will be judged by our deeds. There is accountability. There is a judgment day. And we had better fear the Lord. So we need constant reminding. We can join a church, listen to the pastor, and fellowship with other believers. But what if we get lead astray by misguided people within that church, or the institution of the church changes its agenda to fit the changing times? One thing that will not change is the Bible. It's compelling enough and complicated enough with enough history, and information, and guidance, and direction to always keep us interested and following in the right footsteps. The Bible is there to help us believe. And, maybe more
important, it's there to help us to continue believing"

Some Christian communities encourage and practice simplicity in lifestyle.  I think this is something we should try to think about.  

Many congregations forget that a church is not a building, it is the people who worship together.  Some congregations have pulled most of their resources into building church structures and programs.  They try hard to attract new people to the congregation but don't know what to do with them once they come.   I am sad to say that some  congregations have reduced themselves to charity outlets and social clubs.  They have forgotten that studying the scriptures is important as well as worship and service.  

Do we put too much pride into our church buildings and programs?  This subject makes me wonder about other things as well.  I always thought that hospitality was a ministry (inviting people over for meals, Bible study, friendship) and this is rapidly diminishing from some churches.  I have heard about "home churches" but I not sure if this is always a good idea.  I probably think that you had an entirely different point to your original posting.

[Shammu]

"Although we're saved by grace, it appears to me that we will be judged by our deeds. There is accountability. There is a judgment day. And we had better fear the Lord. So we need constant reminding. We can join a church, listen to the pastor, and fellowship with other believers. But what if we get lead astray by misguided people within that church, or the institution of the church changes its agenda to fit the changing times? One thing that will not change is the Bible. It's compelling enough and complicated enough with enough history, and information, and guidance, and direction to always keep us interested and following in the right footsteps. The Bible is there to help us believe. And, maybe more
important, it's there to help us to continue believing"

Some Christian communities encourage and practice simplicity in lifestyle.  I think this is something we should try to think about.  

Many congregations forget that a church is not a building, it is the people who worship together.  Some congregations have pulled most of their resources into building church structures and programs.  They try hard to attract new people to the congregation but don't know what to do with them once they come.   I am sad to say that some  congregations have reduced themselves to charity outlets and social clubs.  They have forgotten that studying the scriptures is important as well as worship and service.  

Do we put too much pride into our church buildings and programs?  This subject makes me wonder about other things as well.  I always thought that hospitality was a ministry (inviting people over for meals, Bible study, friendship) and this is rapidly diminishing from some churches.  I have heard about "home churches" but I not sure if this is always a good idea.  I probably think that you had an entirely different point to your original posting.

AMEN ....... M!!

[Willowbirch]

Amen M?
Shouldn't that be under another topic?

(M+Ms...sorry!  )

But I agree with Dreamweaver; Amen, M!

[Bronzesnake]

Dreamweaver my brother.
That is a well though out and beautiful post my friend!
You sent me a message and asked if I had ever had a thought just come to me - the answer is yes. I believe that is how God speaks to us at times when He wants us to do something important. I also believe God spoke to you, and you answered!

 I particularily like this...

So what happens if we don't stay on the right path? Yes, when we're born again our sins are washed away, but what about after that? Although we're saved by grace, it appears to me that we will be judged by our deeds. There is accountability. There is a judgment day. And we had better fear the Lord. So we need constant reminding. We can join a church, listen to the pastor, and fellowship with other believers. But what if we get lead astray by misguided people within that church, or the institution of the church changes its agenda to fit the changing times? One thing that will not change is the Bible. It's compelling enough and complicated enough with enough history, and information, and guidance, and direction to always keep us interested and following in the right footsteps. The Bible is there to help us believe. And, maybe more important, it's there to help us to continue believing.

 Great stuff Bob!

Bronzesnake